Report, edit, etc...Posted by Heimdal on 2005-08-19 at 11:11:50
Does what we do with EUDs affect you at all? We found something incredible and we want to hold on to it, even if just for experimenting with what's possible. Or did you forget the SEN slogan? "Pushing Starcraft maps to the limit." Can you imagine what SC would be like if no one started making programs like SCXE and SCMDraft and Starforge?
I have a theory. Blizzard probably knows who made EUDEnabler (and either they're stupid or haven't looked very hard if they don't). I haven't been banned yet. Therefore I think they're detecting it as another hack. I don't know exactly how this works. If they run a checksum of SC's memory every so often, that's not good. I think more likely people have been playing games where they drop or crash, and that brings their hack detector nosing around.
I just thought of something else. Maybe someone made a virus map that bans you from b.net. It's crazy, but it's possible.
I have a theory. Blizzard probably knows who made EUDEnabler (and either they're stupid or haven't looked very hard if they don't). I haven't been banned yet. Therefore I think they're detecting it as another hack. I don't know exactly how this works. If they run a checksum of SC's memory every so often, that's not good. I think more likely people have been playing games where they drop or crash, and that brings their hack detector nosing around.
I just thought of something else. Maybe someone made a virus map that bans you from b.net. It's crazy, but it's possible.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodle77(MM) on 2005-08-19 at 11:14:06
m.r.bob:
I don't think the rumors are ture. Why ban people for EUD enabler but not Penguin Plug.
As long as you don't have the program, nothing can happen to you, so why worry.
ADDITION: It's not Yoshi starting the rumor. It's this topic: http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopic=19749
I don't think the rumors are ture. Why ban people for EUD enabler but not Penguin Plug.
As long as you don't have the program, nothing can happen to you, so why worry.
ADDITION: It's not Yoshi starting the rumor. It's this topic: http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopic=19749
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-19 at 11:23:21
PenguinPlug > EUDenabler
PenguinPlug more useful than EUDenabler.
Period.
PenguinPlug more useful than EUDenabler.
Period.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Heimdal on 2005-08-19 at 11:35:04
Well, that's just like your opinion, man.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-19 at 11:36:38
I treat it as fact.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-19 at 11:37:27
wait if its true that Mrrll was ip banned then we can be almost positive blizzard is detecting EUD enabler as a hack...unless he was using a hack or other 3rd party software
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-19 at 11:38:43
I think when EUD's first started it was okay. You wouldn't use any third party program or anything. Now EUD's are just getting out of hand, and creating hacks to use EUD's isn't good either.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-19 at 11:39:58
exactly.....we should just all stop using this as yoshi advised in his other post and continue with other stuff
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-19 at 11:44:22
Which is basically playing SC like we have been for years before EUD's 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Merrell on 2005-08-19 at 11:45:13
Penguin Plug is worse then EudEnabler.
It has a thing in it where you can keep spamming lines, it has a download detector, and its really not that much helpful, it just shows chat which can only used to make fun of people.
It has a thing in it where you can keep spamming lines, it has a download detector, and its really not that much helpful, it just shows chat which can only used to make fun of people.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-19 at 11:48:51
MrrLL was it true then that u got ip banned.....just wondering
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-19 at 11:49:38
QUOTE
I'm refering to this news post about a rumor going around, and then going "I told you so" like he has been proven correct. If nothing else Yoshi is starting this rumor by making a news post about it. I like yoshi, he is a swell kinda guy, but don't ever think i'm going to bow down to him before having an opionion of my own.
Sorry, that's my mistake of misinterpretation. I guess it happens sometimes i.e.: devilesk and sarcasm.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-19 at 11:50:18
lol dont remind me of that PLZ
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-19 at 11:53:19
QUOTE
Does what we do with EUDs affect you at all? We found something incredible and we want to hold on to it, even if just for experimenting with what's possible. Or did you forget the SEN slogan? "Pushing Starcraft maps to the limit." Can you imagine what SC would be like if no one started making programs like SCXE and SCMDraft and Starforge?
I have a theory. Blizzard probably knows who made EUDEnabler (and either they're stupid or haven't looked very hard if they don't). I haven't been banned yet. Therefore I think they're detecting it as another hack. I don't know exactly how this works. If they run a checksum of SC's memory every so often, that's not good. I think more likely people have been playing games where they drop or crash, and that brings their hack detector nosing around.
I just thought of something else. Maybe someone made a virus map that bans you from b.net. It's crazy, but it's possible.
I have a theory. Blizzard probably knows who made EUDEnabler (and either they're stupid or haven't looked very hard if they don't). I haven't been banned yet. Therefore I think they're detecting it as another hack. I don't know exactly how this works. If they run a checksum of SC's memory every so often, that's not good. I think more likely people have been playing games where they drop or crash, and that brings their hack detector nosing around.
I just thought of something else. Maybe someone made a virus map that bans you from b.net. It's crazy, but it's possible.
QUOTE
I think when EUD's first started it was okay. You wouldn't use any third party program or anything. Now EUD's are just getting out of hand, and creating hacks to use EUD's isn't good either.
That's no good.
And as for EUDs, we should just leave it alone and go on with our lives. Without EUDs is the way we have been playing for seven years. Now that we think Blizzard treats this as hacking, we might as well just let it go if we don't want to get in trouble.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-19 at 11:59:08
QUOTE(MrrLL @ Aug 19 2005, 11:45 AM)
Penguin Plug is worse then EudEnabler.
It has a thing in it where you can keep spamming lines, it has a download detector, and its really not that much helpful, it just shows chat which can only used to make fun of people.
[right][snapback]292497[/snapback][/right]
It has a thing in it where you can keep spamming lines, it has a download detector, and its really not that much helpful, it just shows chat which can only used to make fun of people.
[right][snapback]292497[/snapback][/right]
It autosaves replays and saves text in replays too. It owns you, and EUDenabler. Plus before the 1.13 patch it protected against bad crash hacks
QUOTE
Sorry, that's my mistake of misinterpretation. I guess it happens sometimes i.e.: devilesk and sarcasm.
My sarcasm is easily comprehendable if you can read and know what words mean. Maybe you should join my group in my signature?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-19 at 12:01:24
QUOTE(devilesk @ Aug 19 2005, 11:59 AM)
It autosaves replays and saves text in replays too. It owns you, and EUDenabler. Plus before the 1.13 patch it protected against bad crash hacks
[right][snapback]292508[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]292508[/snapback][/right]
but did it enable EUDs....no
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-19 at 12:06:07
So? Who cares about EUD's?
I'm saying PP is more useful than EUDenabler, especially since EUDenabler isn't even really used This isn't about comparing what they can and can't do because they do totally different things.
I'm saying PP is more useful than EUDenabler, especially since EUDenabler isn't even really used
This isn't about comparing what they can and can't do because they do totally different things.Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-19 at 12:07:07
well it was more usefull......i gues ur rit especialy if blizard is detecting EUD enabler as a hack
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathknight on 2005-08-19 at 12:49:57
Pathetic.
How do they detect this change anyway?
Just to tell you, hacks are different from this, and are undetected by the method they are detecting the change done by EUDEnabler.
"Viruses" are still possible wether or not you use EUDEnabler. Blizzard just has a pathetic way of patching things the time they become a problem, and not beforehand.
Then you can't say Penguin Plug is better than EUDEnabler.
How do they detect this change anyway?
Just to tell you, hacks are different from this, and are undetected by the method they are detecting the change done by EUDEnabler.
"Viruses" are still possible wether or not you use EUDEnabler. Blizzard just has a pathetic way of patching things the time they become a problem, and not beforehand.
QUOTE
they do totally different things.
Then you can't say Penguin Plug is better than EUDEnabler.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-19 at 12:53:29
Yes I can because it's more useful
The things PP does, even though totally different from EUDenabler, is more useful.
The things PP does, even though totally different from EUDenabler, is more useful.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lisk on 2005-08-19 at 12:56:06
Inhale > Penguinplug.
What pP does is useless when you run EUD-E
What pP does is useless when you run EUD-E
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathknight on 2005-08-19 at 13:01:29
QUOTE
Yes I can because it's more useful
Ok... I think Internet Explorer is more useful than SCMDraft.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SI on 2005-08-19 at 13:18:06
QUOTE(Deathknight @ Aug 19 2005, 12:01 PM)
Ok... I think Internet Explorer is more useful than SCMDraft.
[right][snapback]292548[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]292548[/snapback][/right]
I disagree =p
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-19 at 13:56:15
QUOTE(Deathknight @ Aug 19 2005, 01:01 PM)
Ok... I think Internet Explorer is more useful than SCMDraft.
[right][snapback]292548[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]292548[/snapback][/right]
Yea I do too, but see you are comparing things that aren't even in the same category, they are loosely related.
I'm comparing Programs that are used with SC, now tell me what IE and SCMDraft are? Programs that you run on the computer? If so, then that's fine
So what's you point anyway?
BTW, without IE I couldn't download SCMDraft
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-08-19 at 14:04:53
Yay for Blizzard protecting their users. Now, let's work on being able to mod triggers, and making a safe alternative, eh?
By the way, to those of you hanging on to EUDs: stop. Seriously. They're a massive security hole, and should have been patched. As much as an exploit was denounced as "impossible", when you have write access to something like 64 mb of memory, chances are there IS something you can screw up there (got that number from 65536 being mentioned somewhere else as the range of memory EUDs can write to). How many of you know where the button structures were in 1.13? I don't, that's for sure. How many of you know if there were any areas of memory that are being used as the source for a memory copy from here to there in that writable area of memory, which also had the pointer for where to copy them contained in that area? I sure don't know if there were any such areas. Shall I list more possibilities for exploitation?
EUDs gave write access on a blacklist basis (allow, THEN deny) for a size of Starcraft's memory that was far too large to safely contain. Any other overflow bugs should be patched (and it's doubtful that Blizzard patched them--Heimdal mentioned that they patched three triggers: my guesses are increment deaths, decrement deaths, and set deaths), so feel free to create a map that exploits all the extended units / players and stuff as you wish and email it to Blizzard. Please. I'd like to see it fixed.
Once we have a slightly safer game (there's no way it's safe when extended player alliance status is still open, and when any other trigger can use extended players EXCEPT for set deaths...), maybe it's time to rebuild what the Starcraft community has already taken for given... EUD triggers were used to change aspects of Starcraft that you couldn't change with normal triggers, right? Blizzard was able to add new triggers in with patches, we should be able to add new triggers in with a patch too. If we were to figure out how triggers work and add our own in ASM, we could create maps that use new, whitelist based triggers that safely replicate the functionality of EUDs. We could also make the map boot anyone who doesn't use the added trigger mod, so that there would be no desync or anything occuring.
Rather than focusing on the past, we should all look at the potential future of Starcraft map editing.
By the way, to those of you hanging on to EUDs: stop. Seriously. They're a massive security hole, and should have been patched. As much as an exploit was denounced as "impossible", when you have write access to something like 64 mb of memory, chances are there IS something you can screw up there (got that number from 65536 being mentioned somewhere else as the range of memory EUDs can write to). How many of you know where the button structures were in 1.13? I don't, that's for sure. How many of you know if there were any areas of memory that are being used as the source for a memory copy from here to there in that writable area of memory, which also had the pointer for where to copy them contained in that area? I sure don't know if there were any such areas. Shall I list more possibilities for exploitation?
EUDs gave write access on a blacklist basis (allow, THEN deny) for a size of Starcraft's memory that was far too large to safely contain. Any other overflow bugs should be patched (and it's doubtful that Blizzard patched them--Heimdal mentioned that they patched three triggers: my guesses are increment deaths, decrement deaths, and set deaths), so feel free to create a map that exploits all the extended units / players and stuff as you wish and email it to Blizzard. Please. I'd like to see it fixed.
Once we have a slightly safer game (there's no way it's safe when extended player alliance status is still open, and when any other trigger can use extended players EXCEPT for set deaths...), maybe it's time to rebuild what the Starcraft community has already taken for given... EUD triggers were used to change aspects of Starcraft that you couldn't change with normal triggers, right? Blizzard was able to add new triggers in with patches, we should be able to add new triggers in with a patch too. If we were to figure out how triggers work and add our own in ASM, we could create maps that use new, whitelist based triggers that safely replicate the functionality of EUDs. We could also make the map boot anyone who doesn't use the added trigger mod, so that there would be no desync or anything occuring.
Rather than focusing on the past, we should all look at the potential future of Starcraft map editing.