Report, edit, etc...Posted by NerdyTerdy on 2005-11-11 at 21:55:43
Also Defilers are way harder to use versus tanks, tanks can't hit queens, they can hit defilers. Usually you can't even get a defiler close enough to a tank to do anything, also tanks shoot through darkswarm 
. You just can't really get close enough to do plague, also Defilers are later game than Queens. I'm actually not used to using queens much, because I rush fast enough that terrans don't have time for tanks. BTW I'm working on a really fun spell system right now, you have burrowed units following you, to cast the spell you unburrow the units. I dunno why I put that.
. You just can't really get close enough to do plague, also Defilers are later game than Queens. I'm actually not used to using queens much, because I rush fast enough that terrans don't have time for tanks. BTW I'm working on a really fun spell system right now, you have burrowed units following you, to cast the spell you unburrow the units. I dunno why I put that.Report, edit, etc...Posted by decafchicken on 2005-11-11 at 22:18:29
QUOTE(NerdyTerdy @ Nov 11 2005, 10:55 PM)
Also Defilers are way harder to use versus tanks, tanks can't hit queens, they can hit defilers. Usually you can't even get a defiler close enough to a tank to do anything, also tanks shoot through darkswarm . You just can't really get close enough to do plague, also Defilers are later game than Queens. I'm actually not used to using queens much, because I rush fast enough that terrans don't have time for tanks. BTW I'm working on a really fun spell system right now, you have burrowed units following you, to cast the spell you unburrow the units. I dunno why I put that.
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. You just can't really get close enough to do plague, also Defilers are later game than Queens. I'm actually not used to using queens much, because I rush fast enough that terrans don't have time for tanks. BTW I'm working on a really fun spell system right now, you have burrowed units following you, to cast the spell you unburrow the units. I dunno why I put that.[right][snapback]353635[/snapback][/right]
Not to sound mean, but refrain from posting about things you dont know about.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by NerdyTerdy on 2005-11-11 at 22:47:25
Which part are you talking about, because to my knowledge I know about everything I just posted... Also you got the costs for queens and spawn broodling wrong earlier. It is 100 minerals and 150 gas for a queen and 100 minerals and 100 gas for spawn broodling..
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Volcove99 on 2005-11-11 at 23:53:31
As for broodling, they cost about as much to research as the tanks themselves, and you'd need a queen nest for a hive anyways. You can easily make hydralisks & zerglings alongside. Plus, no one has scis by the time someone has queens. Even if they did, zerg would probably have scourge or devs to counter, or by then defilers WOULD be more effective. Get them quickly enough, and they can be a major pain.
Cost comparison: 100/100 per queen, 100/100 to research broodling, 150/100 for the nest itself. Keep in mind that you need nest for the hive, anyways. It comes up sooner or later.
For Terrans, probably you would need it anyways, but Factory is 200/100, seige is 150/150, and tank is 150/100. Queen research is significantly less expensive then tanks, and considering if done properly, queen will live, wheras terran has to replace tanks. Even having 4 queens with broodling is a good investment, in my opinion.
Have you even tried using broodling? If so, then maybe I am wrong, but queens are fun as hell to use and annoy people with <_<
As for protoss using d-web, it works relatively well. Don't know any better protoss options...
Cost comparison: 100/100 per queen, 100/100 to research broodling, 150/100 for the nest itself. Keep in mind that you need nest for the hive, anyways. It comes up sooner or later.
For Terrans, probably you would need it anyways, but Factory is 200/100, seige is 150/150, and tank is 150/100. Queen research is significantly less expensive then tanks, and considering if done properly, queen will live, wheras terran has to replace tanks. Even having 4 queens with broodling is a good investment, in my opinion.
Have you even tried using broodling? If so, then maybe I am wrong, but queens are fun as hell to use and annoy people with <_<
As for protoss using d-web, it works relatively well. Don't know any better protoss options...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-11-12 at 00:18:40
QUOTE(decafchicken @ Nov 11 2005, 11:18 PM)
Not to sound mean, but refrain from posting about things you dont know about.
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Thank you.
Listen, defilers are well worth it ZvT. If you get a swarm near tanks its easy to just continue suiciding lings and overwhelming tanks and m&m only using minerals for lings and some gas for defilers. That then gives you the extra gas needed for ultras or mutas, whichever fits the bill in that case.
ADDITION:
QUOTE(Volcove99 @ Nov 12 2005, 12:53 AM)
As for protoss using d-web, it works relatively well. Don't know any better protoss options...
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How about zeals and goons protected with arbs?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by decafchicken on 2005-11-12 at 01:41:17
QUOTE(Volcove99 @ Nov 12 2005, 12:53 AM)
As for broodling, they cost about as much to research as the tanks themselves, and you'd need a queen nest for a hive anyways. You can easily make hydralisks & zerglings alongside. Plus, no one has scis by the time someone has queens. Even if they did, zerg would probably have scourge or devs to counter, or by then defilers WOULD be more effective. Get them quickly enough, and they can be a major pain.
Cost comparison: 100/100 per queen, 100/100 to research broodling, 150/100 for the nest itself. Keep in mind that you need nest for the hive, anyways. It comes up sooner or later.
For Terrans, probably you would need it anyways, but Factory is 200/100, seige is 150/150, and tank is 150/100. Queen research is significantly less expensive then tanks, and considering if done properly, queen will live, wheras terran has to replace tanks. Even having 4 queens with broodling is a good investment, in my opinion.
Have you even tried using broodling? If so, then maybe I am wrong, but queens are fun as hell to use and annoy people with <_<
As for protoss using d-web, it works relatively well. Don't know any better protoss options...
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Cost comparison: 100/100 per queen, 100/100 to research broodling, 150/100 for the nest itself. Keep in mind that you need nest for the hive, anyways. It comes up sooner or later.
For Terrans, probably you would need it anyways, but Factory is 200/100, seige is 150/150, and tank is 150/100. Queen research is significantly less expensive then tanks, and considering if done properly, queen will live, wheras terran has to replace tanks. Even having 4 queens with broodling is a good investment, in my opinion.
Have you even tried using broodling? If so, then maybe I am wrong, but queens are fun as hell to use and annoy people with <_<
As for protoss using d-web, it works relatively well. Don't know any better protoss options...
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Do you actually play the game, or are you just theorycrafting?
ADDITION:
QUOTE(NerdyTerdy @ Nov 11 2005, 11:47 PM)
Which part are you talking about, because to my knowledge I know about everything I just posted... Also you got the costs for queens and spawn broodling wrong earlier. It is 100 minerals and 150 gas for a queen and 100 minerals and 100 gas for spawn broodling..
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The part of your knowledge incorrect is the defilers. Defilers >>>>> terran
If you think queens are better than defilers in zvt, then you really need to brush up on your skills.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Volcove99 on 2005-11-12 at 14:07:37
QUOTE
Do you actually play the game, or are you just theorycrafting?
Nope, play it. Just stating the actual economics, since you stated that it costs too much to be useful.
QUOTE
The part of your knowledge incorrect is the defilers. Defilers >>>>> terran
If you think queens are better than defilers in zvt, then you really need to brush up on your skills.
If you think queens are better than defilers in zvt, then you really need to brush up on your skills.
True, defilers are significantly better. However, queens can be made much earlier in the game then defilers.
QUOTE
Listen, defilers are well worth it ZvT. If you get a swarm near tanks its easy to just continue suiciding lings and overwhelming tanks and m&m only using minerals for lings and some gas for defilers. That then gives you the extra gas needed for ultras or mutas, whichever fits the bill in that case.
Of course, if the terran bothered to make firebats, zerglings might not work QUITE so well without plague assistance
QUOTE
How about zeals and goons protected with arbs?
If they make turrets to protect the tanks, the cloak does pure crap, unless you mean stasis. And once again, that is late game. Disruption web is MUCH faster to obtain, plus you can pump out zlots with the leftover minerals, or maybe a few goons with range upgrade.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-11-12 at 14:38:00
QUOTE
Of course, if the terran bothered to make firebats, zerglings might not work QUITE so well without plague assistance wink.gif
GOOD JOB! You can find a counter to a single strategy?!? WOW!
Dude, usually when you tech to defilers or queens or any magic caster you get most of its abilities otherwise they are only useful for one thing.
QUOTE
If they make turrets to protect the tanks, the cloak does pure crap, unless you mean stasis. And once again, that is late game. Disruption web is MUCH faster to obtain, plus you can pump out zlots with the leftover minerals, or maybe a few goons with range upgrade.
When I was at my best, PvT was my best matchup, so don't tell me arbs have to come late game. You can get arbs with stasis or recall at like 15 minutes and have a sufficent army of goons with a constant macro.
Arbs are way underused in PvT and they are by far the best air unit to use against terran tank emplacements.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Alex Lifeson on 2005-11-12 at 14:59:07
I'd just like to state something.
100/150 is NOT equal to 150/100 in cost in ANY way, shape, or form. Gas is EXCEEDINGLY difficult to harvest compared to minerals. Every 50 Gas is equal to anywhere from 150-250 Minerals when you look at it. For those players that say gas is easier to get because its always available, you're SO wrong. That 2 gas from a depleted geyser amounts to almost nothing. It is worth barely anything compared to a rate of 8 minerals, anyday.
100/150 is NOT equal to 150/100 in cost in ANY way, shape, or form. Gas is EXCEEDINGLY difficult to harvest compared to minerals. Every 50 Gas is equal to anywhere from 150-250 Minerals when you look at it. For those players that say gas is easier to get because its always available, you're SO wrong. That 2 gas from a depleted geyser amounts to almost nothing. It is worth barely anything compared to a rate of 8 minerals, anyday.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by decafchicken on 2005-11-12 at 15:15:10
QUOTE(Alex Lifeson @ Nov 12 2005, 03:59 PM)
I'd just like to state something.
100/150 is NOT equal to 150/100 in cost in ANY way, shape, or form. Gas is EXCEEDINGLY difficult to harvest compared to minerals. Every 50 Gas is equal to anywhere from 150-250 Minerals when you look at it. For those players that say gas is easier to get because its always available, you're SO wrong. That 2 gas from a depleted geyser amounts to almost nothing. It is worth barely anything compared to a rate of 8 minerals, anyday.
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100/150 is NOT equal to 150/100 in cost in ANY way, shape, or form. Gas is EXCEEDINGLY difficult to harvest compared to minerals. Every 50 Gas is equal to anywhere from 150-250 Minerals when you look at it. For those players that say gas is easier to get because its always available, you're SO wrong. That 2 gas from a depleted geyser amounts to almost nothing. It is worth barely anything compared to a rate of 8 minerals, anyday.
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eh, your only a little off, gas is worth about 1.5x to 2x, not 3x or 4x. But your right in saying gas is more important than minerals.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by NerdyTerdy on 2005-11-12 at 15:15:15
Listen guys, this is a pointless argument. No one is listening to the other side's comments. We all really should get over arguing amongst ourselves, and I take part of the blame for that. To quote the movie Malibu's Most Wanted
"Gangstas, gangstas, why we be fightin'?
We need to be unitin'" It was sort of said goofily in the movie, but it is sort of true..
"Gangstas, gangstas, why we be fightin'?
We need to be unitin'" It was sort of said goofily in the movie, but it is sort of true..
Report, edit, etc...Posted by decafchicken on 2005-11-12 at 15:16:10
Seeing as how corsair + dweb requires about the same tech as arbiters, it is much more effective to go for arbiters instead.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-11-12 at 17:21:57
QUOTE(NerdyTerdy @ Nov 12 2005, 04:15 PM)
Listen guys, this is a pointless argument. No one is listening to the other side's comments. We all really should get over arguing amongst ourselves, and I take part of the blame for that. To quote the movie Malibu's Most Wanted
"Gangstas, gangstas, why we be fightin'?
We need to be unitin'" It was sort of said goofily in the movie, but it is sort of true..
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"Gangstas, gangstas, why we be fightin'?
We need to be unitin'" It was sort of said goofily in the movie, but it is sort of true..
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1. There are no sides. Every one in the conversation has a different argument.
2. That was the shiztiest movie I have ever seen.
3. This isn't pointless because I like proving to idiots that I am right.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Volcove99 on 2005-11-12 at 20:33:43
QUOTE
GOOD JOB! You can find a counter to a single strategy?!? WOW!
Dude, usually when you tech to defilers or queens or any magic caster you get most of its abilities otherwise they are only useful for one thing.
Dude, usually when you tech to defilers or queens or any magic caster you get most of its abilities otherwise they are only useful for one thing.
That was mostly a joke, yeesh. You don't have to take things so seriously.
QUOTE
When I was at my best, PvT was my best matchup, so don't tell me arbs have to come late game. You can get arbs with stasis or recall at like 15 minutes and have a sufficent army of goons with a constant macro.
Arbs are way underused in PvT and they are by far the best air unit to use against terran tank emplacements.
Arbs are way underused in PvT and they are by far the best air unit to use against terran tank emplacements.
Corsairs can usually be made about 3-5 minutes sooner if you do it fast enough. Plus, you need a lot more gas for arbiters, not only due to individual cost, but you have to go through teching to the templar archives as well. If you can manage those two, then yeah arbiters are more effective.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by NerdyTerdy on 2005-11-13 at 11:02:42
There was sort of a side Queens Verus Tanks. Also that movie was awesome, don't bash it. What does proving to people that you're right accomplish? Nothing, usually they just won't want to listen to you so they'll leave you alone.