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This is quite the read, my very own little chapter.

Nozomu I agree with you on just about everything, but FireKame does have a point in that faith (and many other aspects of life) have little to do with logic and more with intuition, spirituality.
But...
For Nozomu it is important that things are logical, that's just how he is. FireKame can overlook lack of logic and accept more radical things, that's just how she is. Both of you are still open minded, but on different ends of the spectrum. It lets you see things the other wouldn't (lies) and miss out on things the other would (truths).

Also Nozomu, just because a concept was written a long time ago and we don't know who wrote it won't make it less true. However translating it over and over will likely biased-ify the original message, it's just something you need to watch out for. The bible has been translated/rewritten many times now. Yet the stories in it don't have to be 100% true to convey a good moral/message.

Now to bash FireKame (in a constructive manner)
Jesus NEVER asked/wanted to be worshipped or idolized, and you are actually offending his selfless teachings by being Christian. He was a man who had the task of getting mankind back on the right track by setting examples and even sacraficing himself. Just like we all have a purpose on this earth, that was his and it was remembered and turned into a religion, I mean faith.

Today it seems most religions (and faiths) are just businesses out to make money and survive. In a scientific world people want more answers, so why not adapt the religion (or faith) to make the zombie... I mean follower... feel as though they will get answers. One smart move on Christianity is the way they use Jesus as the only link between mankind and God, and almost nearly portray him AS God himself.

Jesus is not God, Jesus is God's son, and so am I and so is Nozomu, and everyone else is also God's child.
I guess when Jesus said that he is God's son and we are all his Children people were too impressed by the first part to pay attention to the second part. Thus Christians today pray to Jesus and think he is the only path to God.
Jesus' examples/teachings are the path to God.

You know how the saying goes Jesus is in all of us, yes he is because we all have good in us, because we are humans and all humans have the potential to be like Jesus. Some today will no doubt do what he did 2000 years ago if they were in the same situation, that doesn't mean they are Jesus, they are Frank or Bill or Jessie down the street who are as enlightened as Jesus was (whether from the bible's teachings or just how they were raised).

Yes, believe in Jesus >> believe in YOURSELF.
So many people need an icon because they have no self worth, so they turn to a religion or faith.


A few years ago I got a sheet with info on most religions, it very clearly stated the one common belief, Treat others like you want them to treat you. How nice would it be to drop all the other BS and just follow this one moral.

The idea of Heaven and Hell is so man made, manufactured to make people feel scared into joining up. A true God would not threaten us, he would offer his love.
One day I met a woman handing out religious pamphlets that said "Learn how to fear God"... where are the pamphlets that say "Just Love God, OH And Treat Others Like You Want Them To Treat You."

A little theory:
Even if you are an atheist, pretend there is life after death and when you die you temporarily have all the important answers. What is waiting for you is maybe the next stage of your souls existance, but you reflect back on your life and see all the places you failed and so you decide you are not ready for this next existance and decide to relive life on earth as a human again.

Personally I don't feel that adding a title to my name will make me a better person, nor should I need one to be considered a good person or go to Heaven. We already have a title, human. It represents the bad AND good, we just need to focus on bringing out the good.

There is more I can say, but this is a long enough lesson for now, so maybe later.

Oh and there is a difference between SOUL and SOLE
"It is the sole purpose of your body to house your soul"

That was clarifying, sort of.
No mention of me in there

ur in there aster read the fine print lol. anyway god is out here, sumwhere he's waiting, waiting for d-day.

D-Day already happened.
Anyway, no I'm not, read closer

FINE PRINT:
Aster.

Very interesting Dabbu

On another note... I can tell alot people people dont follow or practice much from Buddhism considering everything thats being talking about it Jesus Hehe its all so interesting

Oh I was just poking at what Nozomu and FireKame were throwing popcorn at eachother about.

Honestly I don't know much about Buddhism, but it seems like one of the more honorable religions.

Well i leave that in the eye of the beholder... I dont want to start making claims and have people yelling at me but i suggest anyone interested in any religion to read about it or visit a local church or temple to speak with someone about it. Youd be suprised how interesting some of the things can be.

And also how full of crap occasionally.......

i meant d-day as in u no the apocalypse. the armagedon

wow, dabbu. that was really cool. thanks, yeah, I agree with most of it, and now that I see your perspective as stated in the first paragraph, I agree with that.

well, incase I forget, I have to say its been a lot of fun talking to Rayne and Nozomu; they both seem able to debate and not just argue

Hehe even thou arguing is always just as fun

If not more so

arguing is the main part of being human

Thats purpose to human nature to some human beings amoung this world... not all...

I honestly thought I'd get super bashed by you FireKame, but thanks for reading all that with an open mind, you're now my Christian hero

I think it's alright if some people believe this way and others that. What I don't like are those CRAZY Islamic bastards who suicide bomb and take down our twin towers, what the hell was that for? I'm not saying all Islamic people do that, but I hate the ones who do things that piss me off, like that guy who got his head chopped off. I believe everyone has a right to believe whatever the hell they want as long as it doesn't push the limits like those terrorists or like priests that rape children.

Of course... its a matter of a belief or a way of life that the religion can influence... But its certain Hardcore people who decide that its more then just a religion its a matter of life and that its all of life... hence why they perform "Acts in the name of god" saying its what there god wants them to do. Most religions are peaceful... but the sad part is not all are...

Have you ever thought about Christians who do that type of thing Revelade? Hitler was Christian...

Yes but that doesn't make it a bad religion, nor does what revelade say make the Arabic religion bad either. The difference is those people had there priorities mixed up... believing that (Hitler) there was a supreme race of humans or that their god wants them to sacrifice themselves to destroy another culture...

Why would any god want that, is what I don't understand....Although you can't classify (for example) all Iraqis as people like Saddam Hussein or Muktada Al-Sadr, the same as other religions.
I may not be making a whole lot of sense here...

No No your misunderstanding, its not written anywere that there gods want them to do any of that, they took it apon themselves to follow that path and take action apon it. Its there own version of what there gods want them to believe... just like any of ours.

Those of you who have them.
I believe I was misunderstanding, but I still hold firm that I don't know why they would believe that their gods want them to kill.

Thats what i was getting at, I dont think many understand outside of themselves...

Outside of themselves? I'm confused (BIG surprise there...)