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Staredit Network -> Serious Discussion -> Gays are very intolerant
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2006-08-18 at 06:52:10
Jews are a race. Jesus was a Jew. biggrin.gif (I had to say that)

On another note, don't flame please. A lot of you are saying things to attack the member rather than the argument.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-08-18 at 07:05:52
QUOTE(CheeZe @ Aug 18 2006, 07:51 AM)
Jews are a race. Jesus was a Jew. biggrin.gif (I had to say that)
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I don't consider members of a particular religon a race.

QUOTE
The notion of race is nearly as problematic from a scientific point of view as it is from a social one. European physical anthropologists of the 17th and 18th centuries proposed various systems of racial classifications based on such observable characteristics as skin color, hair type, body proportions, and skull measurements, essentially codifying the perceived differences among broad geographic populations of humans. The traditional terms for these populationsCaucasoid (or Caucasian), Mongoloid, Negroid, and in some systems Australoidare now controversial in both technical and nontechnical usage, and in some cases they may well be considered offensive. (Caucasian does retain a certain currency in American English, but it is used almost exclusively to mean “white” or “European” rather than “belonging to the Caucasian race,” a group that includes a variety of peoples generally categorized as nonwhite.) The biological aspect of race is described today not in observable physical features but rather in such genetic characteristics as blood groups and metabolic processes, and the groupings indicated by these factors seldom coincide very neatly with those put forward by earlier physical anthropologists. Citing this and other pointssuch as the fact that a person who is considered black in one society might be nonblack in anothermany cultural anthropologists now consider race to be more a social or mental construct than an objective biological fact.


So really, I don't know what to think tongue.gif

And the fact that Jesus was a Jew doesn't really contribute to the conversation at all, seeing as it is about homosexuality.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CAFG4reals on 2006-08-18 at 16:57:58
omg wilhelm just owned you in 2 ez posts! He had strong points and backed them up, and you... well you nit-picked and pull approximates out of the air.
You had no problem debating other's comments that were off-topic, but when hit with something difficult, you punked out.
The thing is, if you cant refute his statements, then then the odds are greater that what he says is the truth. now follow my logic b4 screaming "FALLACIES". If what he says is the truth, then you have no reason to even not agree homosexuality. I made this logical assumption on the idea that you probably arent effected in anyway by gays, but the bible tells you that it is sin, and therfore should not be supported in anyway. Now Wilhelm has made the arguement that the bible has no objection to the homosexual agenda of today. Now you have 3 paths you can take: 1. Change who you are, and what you stand for (its not as hard is everyone makes it out to be, I actually DO grow and learn and adapt in almost every religious debate I enter), follow the bible with this interpretation and tell others your view, 2. Buckle down, hit the books...errrr, book, and discover where Wilhelm went wrong in your reasoning. Prove to us that god really does look down on the idea of two men being together, whether or not they love each other. If you really do, then you just helped me grow more. Then theres road 3, you really dont want to take road three. 3. You deny Wilhelm's statement have any validity and eave it at that. You might try to save face by chopping up the quotes giving smartass snipets to one liners. You escape by changing or flatout ignoring the subject. Its our problem after all. This is the road that i see taken most often in god topics(both sides guilty of it, but more often its the theists). People should look at you as a respectable person as long as you do 1 or 2.
PLZ DONT CHOSE 3!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by FaiLuRe. on 2006-08-19 at 03:43:57
QUOTE(luisv @ Aug 17 2006, 07:49 PM)
and I don't like speaking of things/people I don't know.
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Then cool it in this topic until you do.

unless you, yourself are saying you are a homosexual, you have no way to prove how people become just that. if you are, then enlighten us. did you simply wake up one day and say "im gay!", or were u born that way?

also: to everyone that says "gay people cant contribute to society lolz they cant make babies like heterosexuals can!"

well, you obviously see things black and white. heterosexuals mess around just as much as homosexuals, and most of these babies are an accident ("doh!"...?). at least with homosexuals, the choice to have a child (adoption etc) is not a direct result of them being lazy and not practicing safe sex.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-08-19 at 12:47:44
Lusiv, I have a question for you:

What is stronger, the default (genetic) things (like attraction to the opposite sex), or things that are not genetical (your points of view) ?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-08-19 at 13:17:46
Gays are gay.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BlueJeansGuy on 2006-08-19 at 13:29:26
QUOTE
Repeating "ex-gays" should be convincing enough. You cannot change what is genetic. If so, then people who are born blind should be able to change to become "ex-blind", but obviously they cannot. Thus, since ex-gays exist this PROVES that homosexuality is NOT genetic. Yet, you still blindly stick to your ideology? Why do you bother posting if you are not open-minded. If someone provided unequivical proof that homosexuality was by nature, that without a doubt they were born that way, I would change my point of view. Of course, it would be difficult, but I would change my point of view because I'd reather admit to an error than blindly sticking to a flawed ideology to "save face" or because I'm to prideful. Open-mindness = cool1.gif


I'm pretty sure any claimed "ex-gays" are just people trying to fit in, inside I think they're still gay. I also believe that there was a person who was blind that somehow regained vision in one eye (not entirely sure about that, but if it is true then that throws off that argument tongue.gif) I personally like gay people, I don't want to be gay, but in my experience people who are gay have been just like other people, except that they seemed to be quite a bit nicer, of course this doesn't apply to all gay people, just as there are obviously straight people who are quite a bit nicer than the average person. If a gay person is harassing you for being straight, Christian, or whatever just walk away from them while they're talking, it will piss them off, and you won't have to listen to their bull crapting intolerance, just as if a straight person, Christian person, or whatever is harassing a gay person then they should just walk away. The persons intolerance/unacceptance is their problem not yours.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CAFG4reals on 2006-08-19 at 20:37:40
or, bluejeans, he could start a topic about how incredibly intolerant they are, and then run away from it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by luisv on 2006-08-20 at 11:10:02
QUOTE
Lusiv, I have a question for you:

What is stronger, the default (genetic) things (like attraction to the opposite sex), or things that are not genetical (your points of view) ?


I do not understand this question.

QUOTE
I'm pretty sure any claimed "ex-gays" are just people trying to fit in, inside I think they're still gay. I also believe that there was a person who was blind that somehow regained vision in one eye (not entirely sure about that, but if it is true then that throws off that argument ) I personally like gay people, I don't want to be gay, but in my experience people who are gay have been just like other people, except that they seemed to be quite a bit nicer, of course this doesn't apply to all gay people, just as there are obviously straight people who are quite a bit nicer than the average person. If a gay person is harassing you for being straight, Christian, or whatever just walk away from them while they're talking, it will piss them off, and you won't have to listen to their bull crapting intolerance, just as if a straight person, Christian person, or whatever is harassing a gay person then they should just walk away. The persons intolerance/unacceptance is their problem not yours.


Well, let's not assume that ex-gays are still gays. Assumptions can be dangerous.
It's not that hate gay people, I simply disagree with what they do. And I know it's not genetic since I haven't seen anything that indisputably supports it. We know black people are born black.. we know some people are born with deformities, etc... But the being born gay issue is unproven. And SAYING it's genetic doesn't mean it's genetic.

The problem I find is gays can often (not all of course) be intolerant themselves. Once they find out I'm a Christian I ofteh get the cold sholder. They aren't even open to the idea of being gay is NOT genetic. It's incredible.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-08-20 at 11:16:35
Lusiv, you say that being gay is not genetical. This means that gays overpowered their nature with their opinion - that men are attractive, right ?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-08-20 at 12:07:52
Or that they haven't had enough "success" or "positive experiences" with women, or no women were available... then the sexual urges are strong enough...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by luisv on 2006-08-20 at 13:22:42
QUOTE
Lusiv, you say that being gay is not genetical. This means that gays overpowered their nature with their opinion - that men are attractive, right ?


What is "genetical"? That word does not exist in the English language. And I do not understand what you are saying. Please state it properly or do not state anything at all since I am not in the mood to "decrypt" what you are saying. Yes, I know my tone is harsh, but I have very little patience for those who write poorly.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-08-20 at 13:31:06
He may write poorly, but it IS understandable.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CAFG4reals on 2006-08-20 at 13:38:49
just another classic example of him taking the 3rd option.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by luisv on 2006-08-20 at 14:47:01
Just because you understand what he is saying, doesn't mean I do. It's incredible how you people jump to conclusions everyday. Is there any way to reason with you? Like I said before, I do not understand what Jammed is saying. How much more clear can it be? And CAFG4reals, I find your comments pompous. You and your silly "ways".
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DevliN on 2006-08-20 at 14:55:33
QUOTE(luisv @ Aug 20 2006, 10:22 AM)
What is "genetical"? That word does not exist in the English language. And I do not understand what you are saying. Please state it properly or do not state anything at all since I am not in the mood to "decrypt" what you are saying. Yes, I know my tone is harsh, but I have very little patience for those who write poorly.
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For freak sake, I'll decrypt the god damn message for you since every one but you seems to understand it:

"Lusiv, you say that being gay is not genetic. This means that gays overpowered their nature with their opinion - that men are attractive, right ?"

OH MY GOD! ALL I HAD TO DO WAS REMOVE THE "al" FROM "genetical" AND NOW IT MAKES SENSE! WOW!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Chef on 2006-08-20 at 15:09:50
Bah, you beat me to it Devlin!

luisv, consider this: Could you ever find yourself sexually arrosed by genetalia of your own gender? I definitly wouldn't. The idea of doing anything with someone the the same gender's genetalia invokes negetive feelings in my brain. I am incapable of enjoying homosexual sex.

Or how about this: Would you choose to be made fun of, beaten up, and kicked around by every immature putz you meet? A lot of homosexuals, especially about a decade or more ago (in western culture) went through terrible ordeals if people knew their sexual orientation.

These, in my opinion, support that homosexuality is not a choice. Unless I'm a deviant, and the above are normal temptations for you and the rest of the world, I'm pretty sure a least some of the homosexual population really is homosexual.

QUOTE
Well, let's not assume that ex-gays are still gays. Assumptions can be dangerous.

You're making the assumption that they aren't lying, hypocrite. He's suggesting a completly plausible, and in my opinion, quite likely theory on why some people proclaim to be ex-gay.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by luisv on 2006-08-20 at 17:07:57
QUOTE
For freak sake, I'll decrypt the god damn message for you since every one but you seems to understand it:

"Lusiv, you say that being gay is not genetic. This means that gays overpowered their nature with their opinion - that men are attractive, right ?"

OH MY GOD! ALL I HAD TO DO WAS REMOVE THE "al" FROM "genetical" AND NOW IT MAKES SENSE! WOW!


Um, it obviously wasn't "genetical" that is not allowing me to understand his point. Would you please calm down? You sound like something bit your toe.

QUOTE
Bah, you beat me to it Devlin!

luisv, consider this: Could you ever find yourself sexually arrosed by genetalia of your own gender? I definitly wouldn't. The idea of doing anything with someone the the same gender's genetalia invokes negetive feelings in my brain. I am incapable of enjoying homosexual sex.

Or how about this: Would you choose to be made fun of, beaten up, and kicked around by every immature putz you meet? A lot of homosexuals, especially about a decade or more ago (in western culture) went through terrible ordeals if people knew their sexual orientation.

These, in my opinion, support that homosexuality is not a choice. Unless I'm a deviant, and the above are normal temptations for you and the rest of the world, I'm pretty sure a least some of the homosexual population really is homosexual.


- So, is everyone here against little ol' me?

-The term "sexual orientation" seems inaccurate, perhaps the term "sexual divergence" is better suited to describe homosexuality.

-What do the experiences of homosexuals have to do with anything?

QUOTE
You're making the assumption that they aren't lying, hypocrite. He's suggesting a completly plausible, and in my opinion, quite likely theory on why some people proclaim to be ex-gay.


So, let's get this straight. It's possible that all ex-gays are lying, yet impossible for homosexuality to be non-genetic? Interesting also how you say it's "quite likely" that his point is true unlike mine. It's interesting that when one questions supposed "ethical stances" in this society, he is met with disbelief, condemnation and ridicule. Is it so hard to believe homosexuality may not be inherent..?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by lil-Brit on 2006-08-20 at 19:41:52
Mhh i think gays arn't normal, or healthy, or needed in this world, or wanted, or liked. Hey i think i've made my point clear
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PwnPirate on 2006-08-20 at 23:10:10
One half you guys really like to get in the habit of going to topics and "Mobbing" anyone who has a different idea compared to the majority just to feel good about yourselves. The other half of you never have any idea what you are talking about. It makes a bad atmosphere for any intelligent discussion. disgust.gif
One person obviously can't argue with several people.
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Do you even watch South Park? They've made jokes about the gay population many times. Did you think Mr. Slave was straight? It's just that none of it is particularly insulting because it isn't easy to insult someone for their lifestyle choice. Oh, he has sex with men... haha? It is pretty easy, however, to laugh that people will follow a book of teachings down to the letter that was written in a time completly different from today. It's pure mockery of the human ability to adapt.

In case you didn't know (and you didn't know), he meant that people only complain about the gay jokes. Not that there were no gay jokes to begin with.
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So, Mr. Stereotypical Christian, I say this to you. Tough ****.

So, Mr. Stereotypical Canadian, stfu because flaming someone doesn't make your argument any better.
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To luisv: Please don't call other people "stupid" and "newb" if you're in SD. Thank you.

This is exactly what I mean! Did you just completely miss the fact that someone had flamed him just a few posts before you posted? Oh I see, you didn't miss it, it's just the flamer was agreeing with your opinion so you didn't give a crap. Am I right?
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Tell me how it's moral to tell someone who's never done anything to hurt you, that he or she is going to hell, is evil/bad, and is the scum of society. To make someone feel ashamed of who they are, and to hate him or herself. I guess it must be moral, because some book of teachings, for which you've never met the author, said so.

IMO it's not. We're not starving for a larger population right now. It's not a person's duty to have many children, if any. The homosexual population is so small, it's not going to significantly affect our population's growth. A homosexual person, cannot possibly hurt you in any meaningful way by being homosexual. Your teachings are out of date. Blind conservatism is what will be mankinds "undoing".

Hey nice job not understanding a single word he said for two pages. He isn't intolerant to gays, he just disagrees with them.
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I never said that you said its unnatural, or that you said people wake up and say they are gay. I never even said I was addressing it directly to you. I was just adding a point.
And no point is a "dumb point", its just adding your opinion. I have the right to add my opinion and thoughts as much as you do.

Hello sir. I like apples. I know this is a discussion about intolerance but I can say this because I'm allowed to state my opinion anywhere I want, whenever I want. You can't stop me. I like apples.
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I don't consider members of a particular religon a race.

That's nice that you don't. I don't consider blue cheese to be "true" cheese because cheese is supposed to be yellow. Isn't that nice?
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now follow my logic b4 screaming "FALLACIES". If what he says is the truth, then you have no reason to even not agree homosexuality.

I'm sorry but we don't speak "MySpace" here, so you have "b4 no reason to even not agree English".
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I'm not arguing the genetics of homosexuality, but ex-gay programs DO NOT WORK. There are no "ex-gays", simply people making public the repression of their true feelings. Repressing your feelings and making yourself feel bad about your inherent desires is unhealthy and damaging, as much of the history of the Western world has shown.

Oh yea I definitely believe that. Every single ex-gay pertains to exactly what you said
and every single one of them are simply people repressing their true feelings. Sure. That's just as implausible as me saying that everyone who went on the Jerry Springer show was bi-sexual. You don't know about every single ex-gay in the world. You don't even know about a small percentage of them. So don't pull things out of nowhere.
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unless you, yourself are saying you are a homosexual, you have no way to prove how people become just that. if you are, then enlighten us. did you simply wake up one day and say "im gay!", or were u born that way?

Knock Knock? Who's there? Not only does your argument have absolutely nothing to do with what he said, but what you said applies to you also, so therefore you shouldn't be talking.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-08-20 at 23:37:12
[QUOTE=lil-Brit,Aug 20 2006, 06:41 PM]

Mhh i think gays arn't normal, or healthy, or needed in this world, or wanted, or liked. Hey i think i've made my point clear
[/QUOTE]

You supply nothing to this discussion other than your opinion, and thus fail at life.


[quote=PwnPirate,Aug 20 2006, 10:09 PM]

One half you guys really like to get in the habit of going to topics and "Mobbing" anyone who has a different idea compared to the majority just to feel good about yourselves. The other half of you never have any idea what you are talking about. It makes a bad atmosphere for any intelligent discussion. disgust.gif
One person obviously can't argue with five people.

[/quote]


"Mobbing" people happens when idiots come on and post ridiculous things, then promptly get torn to shreds by the intelligent folk on this site.


[Quote]
In case you didn't know (and you didn't know), he meant that people only complain about the gay jokes. Not that there were no gay jokes to begin with.

So, Mr. Stereotypical Canadian, stfu because flaming someone doesn't make your argument any better.
[/quote]

[Quote]

Hey nice job not understanding a single word he said for two pages.

[/quote]


Wonderful hypocrisy.

[Quote]
This is exactly what I mean! Did you just completely miss the fact that someone had flamed him just a few posts before you posted? Oh I see, you didn't miss it, it's just the flamer was agreeing with your opinion so you didn't give a crap. Am I right? [/Quote]

No.


[quote]
Hello sir. I like apples. I know this is a discussion about intolerance but I can say this because I'm allowed to state my opinion anywhere I want, whenever I want. You can't stop me. I like apples.

[/quote]

[quote]


That's nice that you don't. I don't consider blue cheese to be "true" cheese because cheese is supposed to be yellow. Isn't that nice?

[/quote]


Spam in response to a post is still spam.


[quote]
I'm sorry but we don't speak "MySpace" here, so you have "b4 no reason to even not agree English".[/quote]

Hurray, something we can agree on.


[/quote]
Oh yea I definitely believe that. Every single ex-gay pertains to exactly what you said
and every single one of them are simply people repressing their true feelings. Sure. That's just as implausible as me saying that everyone who went on the Jerry Springer show was bi-sexual. You don't know about every single ex-gay in the world. You don't even know about a small percentage of them. So don't pull things out of nowhere.
[/quote]

Neither do you!

ADDITION:
The f**k is with my BBCodes?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PwnPirate on 2006-08-20 at 23:42:40
QUOTE
Wonderful hypocrisy.

Despite the fact that I wasn't arguing my point, I was simply responding to what he said. Therefore I wasn't being a hypocrite, because I wasn't using flaming to forcibly wedge across my argument like our good friend Mr. Stereotypical Canadian. You really like to say "hypocrisy" don't you? Let me try.
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"Mobbing" people happens when idiots come on and post ridiculous things, then promptly get torn to shreds by the intelligent folk on this site.

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Wonderful hypocrisy.

I applaud.
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No.

Yet again, and again, and again. What backup do you have that it isn't true? You simply side with him because he agrees with your opinion, and he agrees with the flamer's opinion.. It's a vicious circle. Mobbing, mobbing, mobbing. I can't argue with you.
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Spam in response to a post is still spam.

Yet again, and again, and again. Why do you point this out when I do it, and not when he does it? You simply side with him because he agrees with your opinion. It's a vicious circle. Mobbing, mobbing, mobbing. I can't argue with you.
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Neither do you!

See, that would be a good argument except for the fact that I never said anything about that part of the argument. So therefore it doesn't matter if "neither do I".
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mr.Camo on 2006-08-20 at 23:57:42
I'm laughing so hard at this topic, can we all just get it straight that you don't have to be married to them, so why are you people complaining?

Also: user posted image
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PwnPirate on 2006-08-21 at 00:04:23
We're complaining about how intolerant they are in general >_>.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mr.Camo on 2006-08-21 at 00:05:46
QUOTE(PwnPirate @ Aug 20 2006, 08:04 PM)
We're complaining about how intolerant they are in general >_>.
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I'm complaining how some Christians are intolerant in general >_>.

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