Staredit Network

It's wierd how people always point out that OSMAP is great for stealing maps. My kitchen knife is also good for killing people. Guns don't kill people, people do.

I hope now I made my point clearer.

Took me a few minuted to find my contacts knowing just the maps name. Google "CTF StarFort" > Find the map on Starcraft.org > Click either [GTA classic] link or CTF StarFort 1.00t link > Find link to SEN > Find links to my profile. Any more problems?

BTW, the StarEdit license agreement does not say that they own all materials made with it.

i thought we already cleared up everything about legal rights already...its pointless, as most SC maps come from using prohibited 'products'

I'm not saying that. SC mapping should be a fun exercise for novice and experienced programmers alike. But for people who take it WAY too seriously, yeah, they should quit SC mapping for a while and do something else for a change.

It's understandable that the most zealous advocates for CS mapping will have a tough time accepting this, but hopefully they'll realize the simple truth about SC mapping once they age a bit more and see more in the world of software development: that Starcraft is just a game, and there's no map protection that can change this.

Yeah.. So you do the experiment by opening staredit and trying it out, not by unprotecting something the author wants to keep private and staring that, trying to figure out what's going on. If LegacyWeapon had made a map viewer, that would have been fine. But he made a map unprotecter, so I wouldn't say that 'to learn' is a justified argument at all.


In a world where we edit programs, graphics, scripts, AI, and more of Starcraft, I don't think legal stuff has anything to do with the argument. We're talking about morality; something that has never been considered while writing up legal stuff.

Actually, I'd say that we have full rights to edit and put our names on .scx files.
'Hello, how dare you put your name in this .scx file?'

'What? I just opened notepad and randomly pressed keys! Does this mean I did something that works? What? Starcraft? Whowz0rz'.

Unless Blizzard copyrighted the .scx format (even if they did, you can say that you wanted to put .scz or something), and wasn't created using the default staredit (even if it was, who could prove it), the file is yours.

That's when you go to SEN and start asking questions.


What's where you open Staredit and start experimenting .


But if there was no guns, there would be no gun-related killing. See how that works?

protection is good becouse it prevents rigging and map stealing from immatures from b.net

osmap is good becouse it allows people to look at the map or fix/update it.

99% of the nubs on b.net dosent have osmap anyway.

No, what I was saying is that you gain more knowledge from hands on editing and browsing through the map where you found a trick than to read responses in the forums. My analogies fail.

The assistance sections of places like SeN were my point, thank you for proving it.

Oh. I thought you were talking about the creator of the map. What, is the UMS section in that much disarray?

If the author wanted you to learn off of his map, he would have made it that way. Sure, the author doesn't have real ownership to the map, but it's more of an ethical thing... The people unprotecting maps should respect the map makers wishes. Turn map protecting into something negatively viewed by community, instead :0

Why?

You're saying we don't have the right to open maps, simply because some random person says we can't?

The maker of the map has a choice. They took the time to make it and put a map out there for you to play.

If you made yourself a sandwich and i walked into your house, and took it, wouldnt you say something?

Is triggerviewer not enough!? Someone should make a program that doesnt really unprotect the map but allows you to open so you can see triggers, and the most important things too like, locations, briefing, etc. You shouldnt be able to save the changes too. When someone makes it, I'll name it, PMSMV. Preventing Map Stealing Map Viewer.

Why? Because he made the freaking map. Even better, he made the map for you to play it. He took the effort so you can have your little bit of fun. Thats why you should respect his wished about the map.

But of course nobody is expecting that from one like you..

Exactly what we're saying

IP, sorry for the extremely late reply and sudden change of topic but the "edited by" thing for any tiny change is important. Everytime I see an edit of something on my Sand Castle Wars, I always want to talk to the editor. Why did he make such a change? Is there anything I can do to further his/her idea? Do I agree with his/her idea? Why or why not?

With the other person there, I can discuss with them such questions. With the other person known, I can talk about the possibilities of future versions.

It is a HUGE step from going, "wow this map sucks," to actually changing the map to make it fit what you want it to be. And if people are willing to take such a large step, I'm pretty sure I want to hear what the have to say.


Also about the map viewer versus unprotector. A viewer lets you see the map. An unprotector allows you to touch the map, to change it and see what it does. When a map is in an unprotected state, people can change certain things to understand what it does to the entire picture. An interactive learning environment is much better than simply a viewing one.

Well, fine , well make a program that lets you do all that except saving or making new file!

Yes, but an unprotector comes with a million people like me and tons of arguments regarding credit theft, respecting the wishes of the creator, and map perversion. Map view lets you see how everything is done. In what situation would you need to change something to understand how a trigger works? It's called 'written in english' - You see the trigger, you see what the trigger does, you know what that trigger does - you can replicate the trigger and do whatever you want from there without disrespecting the wishes of the creator of the map.

If that person wants to edit your map, let them contact you. It's not that difficult. If you can't be contacted, too bad. At least you don't have maps like LOAP floating around on battlenet. A definite improvement.

DEAD/Gigins, yesterday I took your GTA Classic, unprotected it, and put my name on the Maker label. I disrespected all your efforts to let me have a little fun and now it says Made by PCFredZ instead of Made by DEAD.

How much does this change the big picture? Nothing. It made you mad and gave me a moment of satisfaction. Now I can go around forums saying I made GTA Classic, right? As a mature, intelligent person, there is nothing that has pleased me more in my life than this grand theft scmap. Your life has lost all meaning. Etc.

Yes, well, the majority of people aren't as noble or righteous, Fred. They'd set the damage for one unit to 9999 and host it on battlenet.

Rigged versions like that get a bad reputation, are shunned by the majority of players and eventually fade into obscurity, while good edits become new variations and are spread around.

not really. In a hero arena map there are units that do 100 dmg per upgrade and sometimes the user likes these riggs that they put them on the other maps

Your misunderstood my point completely. It is exactly the majority of people who you wouldn't consider "noble or righteous" who would take other people's maps and put their own names on them. Personally I'd simply call them self centered lazy bums, like Bob Dole who likes to alway hear Bob Dole talking about Bob Dole.

But it doesn't, or at least shouldn't affect you. The opportunities provided by regular unprotected maps greatly outweighs the trivial consequences of some random internet newbie doing the actions I listed above. Apparently you seem to take it as a personal attack that there is a piece of software out there called OSMap that can make any maps an open playground for whatever crazy lunatics that should find it and decide to rig it to infinity and beyond; but if ProEdit or Uberation were never made in the first place, then you would have had to deal with with map stealers/riggers the same way you now have to under the existence of OSMap.

Oh and by the way DEAD, I didn't steal your map. That was to make a point. But for the purpose of this discussion, so what if I did?

And what does this has to do with OSMAP? You didn't release the damn map protected, now did you?