Staredit Network

Jammed theres a simple word to explain your position. Newbie, meaning that you havnt been to this site nearly as long as I have so you wouldnt know giving you 0 say in the matter. I've been here since 2004 I know what yoshi WAS like before.

Hint :

ZOMG DUMB LW AND MA NOW I CAN'T RELEASE UNPROEDIT II.

If you haven't noticed, I was speaking about what Yoshi is like NOW. And now he supports open map sources.

As I recall you said I was wrong, your talking about now, I'm talking about when Yoshi was admin, theres a big difference.

Cloud, he can know how Yoshi was like without being here.

I believe somebody commented about Trigger Viewer 2 being buggy, or not working well... I think you might be confused with TV1, because from what I heard from TV2 that it works fine.

But then again, I may be wrong, I do not actually use the program myself, so if I am wrong, feel free to disreguard this comment.

I rarely see revisions to maps. I have seen maps stolen, or rigged. Take those sunken defense games, there is like Sunken D 2012 because people just keep making new years, stealing the map, adding their name on it, making it rigged, or unplayable.

I think it should be the map makers choice whether nor not he wants people to see his work. He isn't obliged to show anybody it, it's his work.


(I'm sure I'm just reitterating what everybody else says )

You misunderstood me because I misunderstood you.

I understood this as "If Yoshi was admin now...".

NO UNPROEDIT 4 U!!1 KEKEJAJAJAHAHAFUFUFU


Yeah, last thing we need is another one.

Actually, that rumor came from me. I assumed that was how OSMAP read data.


I fail to see why you think LegacyWeapon got suspended for anything.


Think of his job as ... Protoss plasma shields.

Well yes that's pretty much it. I just don't care a single iota about anything Army does because of his personality and the kinds of maps he makes.


To be fair, I have seen House of the Haunted played once in recent memory. It is only played rarely. It is also a map that could very easily be stolen, slighted modified or rigged, and easily spread throughout the community. By adding (U)Bolt_Head to the roster of people possibly effected by unprotection, you only further support that protection is a good thing.

Also I am going to ignore Wall Ball completely because I have never seen this map played. You are however the second person to mention this map to me. Either way, it sounds like the typical MillenniumArmy type of map that I despise almost as much as I despise bounds.


Those are really the only three other people who might be effected by unprotection. I neglect them because I hate Army, (U)Bolt_Head doesn't play anymore, and I'm working under the assumption that Tuxedo-Templar doesn't give two craps if someone takes his Fishing map. Let's imagine for a second that you do care about the four of us, then you have four people who think unprotection is a bad thing. And we -are- the only people that matter on the issue. People like Kenoli(U) might make a lot of maps but they are not maps that are played publically.

ROFL! The thing is that heimdal started all this since he told me how to read chks, I told MA and MA told LW. It's heimdal's SCU fault!!

Oh yea, and while I don't support unprotection, I use OSMAP all the time to steal peoples terran and ideas. Just so long as Legacy doesn't update it again so that it can get around my extra protection methods, I'm happy.

Yeah, but you and Heimdall had some restraint. Except for the telling someone else part.

LW didn't. In fact, he went outright in the other direction.

So that was just a rumor, that it read it like Starcraft does? Makes me look stupid . If it works differently, then it should be really possible to make a protection program for it.

As for LegacyWeapon's punishment, I don't really know which side to support; let him stay as moderator or demote him (banning him.. stupid idea.). MA was right when he said that LW has proven himself as a professional moderator on SEN, if not otherwise, and I think that since we're discussing his position on SEN, that should matter more then what he did in his spare time. On the other hand, what he did, while not directly connected to SEN, did hurt map-makers. Do we really want any idiot who wants infinite battlecruisers on his side in a game to be able to replace the good version of a map with one in which red has infinite battlecruisers?

I didn't know Moose's make up rumors O.o?

I think osmap is good as long osmap isn't used by newbies or map stealers or vigourous editing and rigged of players.

Open Source would make maps better and better, for example if you look at wikipedia its all open source anyone can edit! I would advise not to host Osmap in the downloads section because it would distribute the program to countless non-map makers who just edit.

a good thing about osmap is for example the new patch made many maps with stacked text and 2x speed unplayable, some of the maps are my favorites so what i have done is i opened those maps with osmap and edited it out, but of course i didn't add my name on it, but things like this would keep a map alive because people would constantly improve it.

Even with osmap out i still would protect my maps to keep the noobs out from touching it and only limiting the map to only people who have osmap could look and edit it.

hosting your map on a website would be the best protection if you want to keep your name.

Wikipedia is different; what idiot would waste any amount of his time just ruining an article? On Starcraft, the idiot also has the enjoyment of being unbearably rigged and being called a 'nubz0r' by other players.

Also, Wikipedia Administration could restore the article to previous condition at the click of a button; a rigged version of a map will stay in circulation for quite a while.

Thank you Desperado, I was waiting for someone to say that.



So you're saying you can steal peoples maps easily, thus enhancing the quality of ur map, re-using old ideas, and generally making the map faster. Put 2 and 2 together and you have a lot of new and improved maps.

But wait, you intended to use OSMAP maliciously, but instead some good came out of it. Recylcing maps is good, people. Why care if ur map is creditted? You want the reputation on battle.net? What the hell? I understand u take pride in it, and u should, but it doesnt matter because u know u did it, and everyone here knows u did it.

---

Now for the rigging issue:
If some maps are rigged, that means someone is going to host this map a lot, thus increasing the popularity. Chances are someone with mapping knowledge is going to come along, see it rigged, and un-rigg it. By the way, who rigs maps? Ill say 8-12 year olds, who get fun out of killing an enemy before his first proxy gated zealot pops with 20 tanks. Where are the 8-12 year old kids going to get the knowledge of OSMAP? From SEN? Nope, its not hosted here. From B.NET? Nope? From Google? Potentially, if theyre smart enough to find it.

---

Doesn't everyone here want Starcraft to be more popular? To increase the amount of map making? People are getting bored by playing the same defences over and over again, they want something new! I know when i was about to quit starcraft i got into mapmaking, the idea of creating ur own invention is fun! You might call the hours of slave work exhausting, but you are having fun. If ur not, then u need to spend less time on the computer and take breaks. I dont play for more than an hour a day.

Heres what u should do:
- Link to Staredit.net in ALL ur maps. This way people will be directed here and see a lot of maps, also if ur map was stolen they will see the original author (you) listed in the DLDB.

- Dont protect ur maps. The people wanting to create their owns maps can easily edit it, or learn from it without having to have OSMAP.

---

This post has definitely revealed the selfishness and paranoia in most people. OSMAP has been out for months now, why all this fuss all of a sudden, why not before. NOTHING BAD HAS HAPPENED.

You claim u want the map community to grow, but instead u protect ur maps so nobody can edit or recycle ideas. Then you accuse LW for killing map making. But instead it is u who is killing map making. People on battle.net need to be able to see complex triggers and learn from it. You might say they can look for the wiki or tut db, but what if they dont know about SEN? The BNET populace needs to be able to add their own ideas. Starcraft maps need to be even more player run.

---

As someone has stated before, collaboration works. For team micro arena, it has been gone through many versions, and people have added their spin on it. TMA Emerald is one of the best (if not THE best). Also the credits remain. Why? Because more mature people are editting these maps, and im confident a 12 year old wont have access to OSMAP. Im also confident that nobody (above 13) would use OSMAP to rename them as he author (except maybe desperado, but hes a special case). I am not denying that they dont exist, they do, but has anything happened in the past 4 months? In the event that one of ur maps be stolen, WHO THE HELL CARES? You're doing it so people can have fun remember?

---

On SEN, it seems that people are afraid that people will steal their maps. If everyone fears this, where are the stealers? Not on SEN, so u have nothing to worry about. If your map does become popular to circulate into a thieves hands, congratulations, u have made a SUCCESSFUL map!

---

Now, what can OSMAP accomplish?

- Fix maps by removing overlap

- Collaborate maps, make them better, each person adds their own unique spin

- Enhance the map making community, increase usage of other peoples terrains and ideas

- Enhance the speed at which maps are created

- More maps

- Less bored people

- Better Starcraft (with more people)


What are the CONS?

- People might steal ur map [SOLUTION: Provide a link to SEN so everyone can see u made it, also this strengthens the SEN community. In the event ur map is stolen, who the hell cares? Ur map is being circulated, be happy, ur hours of work paid off]

- People might rig ur map [SOLUTION: Provide a link to SEN where people can download the official version. Read above]

---

Now, as a closing statement, this post is not made to question the morality of OSMAP. This is simply to provide the pros and cons of OSMAP.

PS: Desperado, you are one screwed up guy. You wish death on LW because he "ruined" map making. Is your life starcraft? You obviously dont know what death is and how it can affect someone.

If you're going to reference the fact that most 8-12 year olds can't find OSMAP, also reference the fact that most 8-12 year olds can't find SEN and the official version!

Take this scenario, for the third time:
You join a game of whatever you like to play. You download the map. You start playing. Red has 99 battlecruisers. You leave. You decide to host the map. You find it. You host, get players, start playing. Guess what you have? 99 battlecruisers! With each game, up to 7 more people possibly lost the good version of whatever map it was and got the bad version.

As I said before, AUTHORS SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTECT THEIR MAPS IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO. They made the map, other people have no right to edit it without their permission. If not for that person, you wouldn't even know a map, and now you're disrespecting their wishes? If the authors of the maps don't care about protection, as you don't seem to, then THEY SHOULDN'T PROTECT THEIR MAPS.

LegacyWeapon took the right to choose whether to protect or not protect from the map makers. You made a map, posted link on SEN, released the map. Then comes along another person saying he made the map, shows you a version with all the same features and correct credits showing that he made the map. He says that you have stolen the map before it was finished and put it on SEN. What? You can't prove it's your map? IT'S BECAUSE OF OSMAP.

Sorry about all the capitals, peeps . This is becoming tedious. I'll try to resist answering again.

For the first part, refer to the solution of Linking to SEN. Yes 8-12 year olds can find sen, if they can use starcraft. Hell, most 8-12 year olds have email, why wouldnt they be able to find SEN? If ur map is rigged just provide a link to SEN in random places and there u go.

Your third paragraph totally ruins the point of OSMAP. It's to create a OPEN SOURCE project. PEOPLE ARE SELFISH. NOBODY is going to gleefully give their map away. People care about starcraft too much. Sometimes you gotta do good for the community, not urself. Im begginning to think you havent even thoroughly read my post. Of course it's their right, but some rights should be bent in certain circumstances. If someone has the right to remain silent, and he has the cure for aids, what happens? If the person who found the cure believes this is going to somehow make things worse, and is selfish keeping the cure to himself what happens next? This isnt real life people, you arent getting paid to make maps. Enjoy making them, not bragging about making them.

As for ur closing statement, has anything happened in the last few months? Nope. So why the uproar now?

ANYWAY I just wanna say what I bet everyone else is thinking but feels bad to say it. To make an unprotector for maps requires alot of determination(cuz of all the work involved). And i don't see where that came from, so my thoughts are you're 1 very bored person... You need something else besides SC to keep you occupied, im not saying putting hours into sc is bad but when you have enough of your free time to create an entire program and really not for any reason.... it's just a little unsettling.

~Tdnfthe1

There is no legimate use for OSMAP other than riggeng/stealing maps.

Ok, I agree on this one. (but I still stay with my "no legimate use" because this one is nothing compared to harm done.
Make your own maps, looser. If I would want a spin in my map I would add it myself. Make your own maps with your spins...

You mean stealing? Yea, that will definatelly enhance our community. People won't start to flame and bash each other about stealing terrain. /sarcasm

Like how? You mean stealing the map before it's even made? Like I am working my ass off to make an awesome map, you steal it when it's 99% done and release it before I do? Yea, this way I couldn't even prove that I made it. Cool.

Yea, I love those 25 versions of amazing turret D in my download folder, I wish there werte more.

Yea, people are actually having fun downloading 15th version of the same map.

Map stealing wave will bring people back? I would say mapmakers will give up to stealers and SC mapping dies..

Yea, map stealers will always provide links and stuff that proves that they stole it.

Read this "your a looser".

you obviously care too much about maps. Let it go, its not the end of the world. By the way, how am i supposed to make a map without the knowledge of it?


Now provide me with proof as where there have been incidents where osmap has done any of the above.

Are you also saying stealing and re-using old ideas is a bad thing?

Look at the EARTH. GET AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER. Recycling is used ALL AROUND YOU.

Music, even hip hop artists such as Tupac used inspiration from Machiaveli (or w/e) and he even named himself Makaveli. Look at the song Runnin', Eminem produced that song by using someone elses hook!

In books, how many books have the same plot, but with their own spin and uniqueness?

In movies, read above.

In TV, read above.

Go dead .

Yeah, I never had strong willpower to stay away from arguments .

Put a link to where the official version of a map is? What idiot would leave it lying there after they edited the map? DEAD covered everything else.

Koltz.. Provide reasoning showing that OSMAP has in any way made Starcraft better.


It helps LW master VB a little more, and in his way of thinking, make SC better. Reason enough for all of us.

It has helped me unprotect a map which had overlaps in it.