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And I was brought up to believe 1+1 is 3, that white is the stronger race, that men are the stronger sex, that people without blonde hair and blue eyes should be castrated so they can't pass on their "weaker" genes, that gays are not equal to straights, that the earth is flat, that the Sun orbits the Earth, that we were created from dust rather then evolved.

Since I was raised to believe this, rather then given logical reason to believe this, it is therefore true?


It doesn't matter to me if you're a world class nuclear physicist, an ape, some college boy, Satan, or the most repugnant being in the universe. Your argument is still remains the same no matter who you are.

Heck, then if that is what you believe then you can believe that. Im not saying that its politically correct, but if you think it is right then common knolege cant stop you from thinking that. I do think though, that that logic is not as widely accepted as religeon is.

Exactly. What you feel is correct, or what you've been raised to believe is impertinent to objective reality. So it's a fallicious line of reasoning to not accept something only because it is contrary to what you feel or were raised to believe. Still, you can believe whatever you want.

That is a very valid arguement. I think that in the society we are raised in, you start to learn about the "real" world eventually. You cannot exsist in your own little world forever. Objective reality is eventually given to you and you can either believe it and have a chance of being ultrasuccessful or throw it in the garbage and have a very less chance of being very successful.

Uh, there's really two segment of books in the Bible. The old testament (the jews and christians use this) and the new testament (which onnly christians use). Just because people are from the same esoteric group doesn't mean they would all have similar thoughts, especially when they live hundreds of years apart.


Well, you're just going to have to put up with it.


Well, God is something you can't disprove nor can you prove openly to the public. As i have mentioned before, it's just up to one individual self to choose whether to believe in it or not.


No it's not, when you are raised to believe in something, you will someday look at it logically. That's why some people who were raised christians stopped believing in christianity because they think the Bible, which consists of 66 different books, isn't hard enough proof.

Yea... wasn't Luke not even a Jew? Let's see.. Matthew was a jewish tax collector (hated by Jews in those days..), John was a jew also.. I think.. Then, Mark and Luke were not even apostles of Jesus, but were just recollecting the accounts. "Luke was a historian of the upmost quality!" (~Sir William Ramsey)



I agree! People usually do end up facing the harsh reality and seeing things upon logic. Unfortunately, sometimes people deny logic and stick to their belief (creationism, evolution, athiests, skeptics: they all have their beliefs)

BUT realize the vise-versa, gentlemen. An athiest one day was so sick of Christians proclaiming all their hog-wash that he went into deep studying and logical thought and thoroughly examined the Bible and texts with the intent to find proof of fallacies and contridictions in the Bible.. and what happened? He became a Christian!

And who is this person? Josh McDowell!

Hey army, just a question

Who wrote the old testament (genisis), and how would he know what went on? Did god write it or something?

Most Christians believe that the Jews wrote the Old Testament with the influence of the Holy Spirit (one of the entities in the Trinity). I would think this is the most widely spread belief about the Old Testament amongst the Christians (and Jews).

Did I have anything inaccurate Millennium?

God, God is a spiritural guide, God is you. I'm not christain nor anything but Racistism!
We hate all people and cutures and religon as well as tradition. It is all about life, and God is one of those unable to solved theories, since over 2,000 years has past, stories, myths, and tales has been created over a large hope. The only reason they say god is almight, god is whatever! Its beacuse in the very old ages their was kings and queens, but the people still need somthing to look up to and to have the will to make it to the next day and the next. They would use the word God, for somthing they can't expain.
What God really is? It is truly you. You only have the power to change. The others are to guide you in life. Their is no answer to a theory. Its all opinin so don't take it personal,........ es..........jk!,....ya right...., or maybe I am....

I dont believe in anything unless i see it for real, i believe in ghosts, riencarnation, but i wouldnt be caught dead in a church...last time i went there i was like 9 years old and i flicked a booger at the speech guy...hit him in the face

this world was created by something i think the Big Bang, i just dont know how all planets got round, maybe from meteors and rubble, etc etc.


WHAT WAS THERE BEFORE TIME AND SPACE? THERES ALWAYS A BEGINNING OF SOMETHING!

God Always Existed

The Universe Always Existed

Oh, I get it now. You only want to count the people who wrote about God, and throw out everyone who wrote about a different God, and then proclaim, "Hey, they all wrote about the same god!"


Uh, I think that's because the ideas were passed down. It's not like they were all completely oblivious to this God character and then wrote consistent accounts on him. Now THAT would be a strange coincidence.


But do you know why it is crass to believe in something because it has not been adequately debunked?


Maybe because when they look at it logically, the Bible is every bit as reliable as the Quran. It doesn't matter how many books there are written about something, it's wether it can be scientifically ascertained. There are hundreds of books on Buddism, with many different authors during many different time periods. Do you think it's numbers that determine wether a book is true or not?


How does evolution, atheism, and skepticism deny logic?


The opposite happened to Dan Brown. After looking at things logically, he went from preist to atheist.

You have to believe that there is one god and then explain the multiple books about one god. That is basically what the bible is, a buch of little books put into a real big one.

DrunkenWrestler, that is incorrect - Dan Brown was and is still a Christian. He creates characters based on himself in the books. They're the 'mix religion with science' characters, e.g. Leonardo Vetra.

----

Also, most theists don't seem to realise that the most powerful weapon they have against atheism is not crap from the Bible or other holy books written by men for political motives. In fact, it's the following argument, which although it sounds like a cop-out, is actually reasonable:

God is a concept that cannot be comprehended by humans - Therefore, God is illogical to the human brain because God exists beyond the bounds of logic and human reasoning.

So, all all such argument on the matter is pointless. 'God' exists, but not in the sense that Bible-belt Christians hope and atheists try to rubbish.

Moses. God used Moses to write the book.


Nah, for the most part it's true.


Right, there are many people that write about different gods, but they found those 66 books and since they're all so similar to each other, they put it into one big collection called the bible.

Other stuff that talks about different gods would be in other sources but not the bible.


No it does happen sometimes where they were oblivious to God. For instance, moses was oblivious to god. He was raised an egyptian and never knew God. Only until after he ran away realizing he was a jew did he actually meet God for the first time. That happens to alot of these bible characters.


Faith. If you look at the big picture...

There's nothing wrong in believing in God. What bad things could happen just for believing in God? It's not like it would take away your time or ruin your life. There's even a possibility that there's a reward for doing so. So why not just believe in God?

It's also just like believing in Santa Clause/Leprecauns/easter bunnies and all that stuff. There's nothing wrong with believing in them. It wont eternally damn you or something.


Sometimes it does matter how many books there are written. If one book expresses an idea and like 50 other books express the same idea which contradicts the first one, whose are you more inclined to believe? The more books written means more people that are witnesses.


Btw drunken, nice usage of vocabulary

I realized that there is no point argueing. But, I'm going to answer some of these anyway.


So, what if Moses was blind and deaf? His actions could simply be lucky guesses. My friend won the lottery. He must be Moses.


Yeah. This guy, he wrote about 150 "Pocket Monsters", put them together and called it a "PokeDex". That's my bible.


So, then they are automatically ruled out, even though both gods are defined to have infinite power? It's quite clear you don't know which book is correct.


I was raised to believe in god. I went to church when I was small. When I realized the awesome powers of science, all those crazy beliefs in church died. I was reborn. Therefore, I am holy.


You're 100% right. I don't care if you believe or not. I simply don't understand why you do. So far, this has yet to be answered.


I would follow the book that presents more facts. Luckily, we have thousands of science book verses your bible. I'm going with science in this lifetime.

Well, back to the good ol days then...


Well, it sure must've been thousands of lucky guesses (saving thousands of jews, parting the sea, bringing them to promise land, writing the books, etc).


Ok Good for you then


Thing is i don't see any of those "big collection of books" about another god out there. Maybe there are but at least i didn't see any of em.


Yea you wish you were holy.


I just feel like it. And also when going to church I get to be with alot of my friends. The environment at churches are very nice and warm, much better than some places like school.


Not all of science contradicts with the Bible. Science just explains what the bible really hasn't mentioned.

Ah, your arguements are nothing!!! NOTHING!!!



People helped the blacks escape to freedom. Since some of them helped thousands, it must be the work of god.

Water level rises and falls in no particular order (actually, I just refuse to believe there is an order). Since nothing has touched the water, it must be the work of god.

My Dad moved our family to the United States because it was the "promised land". My Dad must have experienced a religious breakthrough because nothing else can explain it.

I wrote a book back in the days. It was really good. It was actually 10 short stories I put together. While it's not quite as big as 66 stories in the bible, I believe it because I wrote it. Therefore, I have experienced the will of God.



I'm going to guess you didn't understand my arguement. But I'll give you another chance to post.



That's because your church banned them. Alright, maybe not, maybe they used them to fuel their fireplace. I mean, of course you're right, I haven't see any books about Zeus!



You can't prove I'm not, therefore, I am holy.



I don't know, the mall is nice and warm. You get to try on clothes. You get to buy food. You get to play games in the arcade. I think the Mall is more holy than the Church because the things you look for in the church is much better in the Mall.

If you prefer a quiet, place, go to the library. Maybe study a little bit too.



None of the science books contradicts the Bible. Never have, never will.

Science is knowledge. Where knowledge ends, Religion begins. I have yet to see Knowledge end.

And so my mineral amount rises....


Yes it might've been the work of god. Many of those blackies started asking God for help, just like the jews back then.

Water level rises and falls due to the moons relative range toward the earth. It's called those high tide things

Well, the USA isn't really the "promise land." The United states isn't all perfect and stuff.

ADDITION: Well, you might claim that God is speaking to you but the attitude in which you take it is wrong.

I was just being sarcastic


Our church isn't like that. But still, even when people burned them, some are still bound to have heard about those books burned.


Oh holy CheeZe(U)! Please give me money since you are holy! Please give me straight A's since you're the holy one! Cure me of my sicknesses and wounds!


Yes, but at least in my church, no one ever tries to make you feel bad. No violence ever occurs. Unlike the mall... sometimes...


Then why did you previously say "Luckily, we have thousands of science book verses your bible."

If both contain info but do not contradict with each other, why not just follow, or try to follow, both?

Cheeze for shame.. you can do better than this! You made irrelevent statements that had to do with millenium's post!

Are YOU able to do all of those things while being blind and deaf?



I'm guessing you learned Evolution in public school and they never spoke of the other side? DARN THOSE EVIL ONE-SIDED PUBLIC SCHOOLS!!! HOW DARE YOU CLAIM ANOTHER SOUL!! GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote]I think it'll be more true to say:
god doesn't exist untill you prove he does,

now, prove it! tongue.gif[quote]

I agree with him

ADDITION:
opps did quote wrong (such a noob) ....

On that thought farscope, I'm ordering a nice book that I hope will be a great resource, it has 423 pages!

Its called,

I don't have enough faith to be an Athiest

Hope its good!

@Cheeze(U) "Science has never contridicted with religion; never will. Where knowledge ends, religion begins."

WRONG! I guess you never heard of Gideon in Judges? To make sure that God wasn't some hallucination, and that also he thought that he wasn't good enough to help God, he told God to make the ground wet with dew but his shield that lays on it not. So the next day he comes out and the ground is wet with dew but the shield is not. Now if I were to end here, this would be a waste of a text, but no! Gideon STILL didn't believe it. So, he told God to make this time the SHIELD was with dew but make the grass dry. And it was so next day.

Dew has to do with temperatures at night time relative to the ground and the shield, making one have dew and the other not right?

Oh good, you realized that Jews are the ones who will go to heaven, there is a scientific reason for everything and The United States sucks, all in one quote answer. I'm never going to doubt your education again!


Of course, it's called lucky guesses. This is, of course, assuming such events happened. I read a bookwhere a guy was very lucky. Coincindentally, his name was Moses. It sounds holy. I think this book is real.


Good, you realize the bible could very well be just like how Pokemon came to be.


Burned or banned, the fact is, they exist. Are you going to deny that? I have a book that teaches greek "mythology". I think it's real. I think Zeus is alive. I think he is watching me. Are you going to think I'm going to hell?


No way, you don't believe in my beliefs. Nothing for you. Off to hell with you!


I don't know, I've gotten hit in the church plenty of times. I'm not going to lie, I've cussed in churchs. You know what? Makes no difference than cussing outside. What if I had built the church in the place you were going to cuss at? Suppose it just instantly appeared because I built it that fast.


Because I don't understand why I should believe in the Bible. There are no proofs of it. I think I should believe in some other book, say for example, Lord of the Rings. The book taught me a lesson. A loner living out in the cardboard boxes could very well be your next President. I think I should believe in that book.


Alright, let's look at this logically.


Religion is opinion that is shared by only groups of people. Science is opinion not just shared by groups of people, but from all races and backed up by evidence. Evolution is simply more logical than creation, espcially with the overwhelming evidence of it. If you ask for proof, then you are simply denying our evidence since DrunkenWrestler has provided such good evidence of it. For more, http://www.talkorigins.org/ .


Which side? Christianity? Jewish? Lutherans? Ah, there are so many. None are backed with proof either. I don't like this game.


Totally spam. Oh wait, so is this. Oh well. Spammage!


I hope you become a better typer, or at least use better grammer. Also, who is "YOU"? The school district or the whole scientific world? Are you going to deny the scientific community? Well then, why not just tell your Teacher that you don't believe in any of this and refuse to learn it. I'm sure they will allow it.

Ok, those last two quotes and responses really had nothing to do with anything so ignore them if you want. If not, I reserve the right to not respond if you make reference to it. Unless I can make it funny.

Note: Mr.Kirbycode774 - Until I get facts from your stories, I really don't care. It has absolutly nothing to do with what I'm argueing. I just got a book, in it, it said that God didn't exist. There was a story explaining that when someone asked him to do something, it didn't happen. I think that's why god doesn't exist.

No offence but i think of god mor of as a mental thing that someone made up to help people through there hard lifes... because if you dont believe in him you kind of lose hope, especially when your life is real bad. So in a way he is real. And that is why it is so easy to believe in him because it seems like there is someone to help you or watch over you and stufff.

Ok well that's cool


Exactly, the pokedex came to be because there actually were pokemon out there. Because they were out there, professor oak made the pokedex and recorded every single fact about them. Kinda like the bible.


I wont deny that. But if u really want to believe in Zeus, go ahead do whatever you want. Yes i think you'd go to hell for that.





Well your church is different than mine. Because of what my church is like, that's why i go there.


Well the Bible also teaches lessons like not to kill people, not to commit adultery, not to lie, not to disrespect your parents.


That's because it says that if you ask for things only for yourself, then he wont answer you. And if you pray with the wrong heart or wrong attitude, such as trying to test him, then he wont answer you. And you also must pray with a common sense. If you pray for stuff like "please kill my teacher, she is such an ass," he wouldn't answer that stuff as well.