Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-07-12 at 23:51:58
What??? And all this time I thought ihatett was a very good melee player who had tons of experience... ahh...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-07-12 at 23:53:27
I thought so too; it sounded like he knew what he was talking about. But when I brought in some information, he went too far and I had my doubts. 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-13 at 01:21:31
QUOTE(CheeZe @ Jul 12 2005, 10:49 PM)
The point being, you have not experienced true melee then. Perhaps you should actually learn it before trying to side with it.
I have not experienced "true melee" because I don't play terran? ROFL? I play toss, see my sig. I don't have the speed for terran, and neither does anyone on this forum.
QUOTE
Nope, the complexity of broodwar is constant. Even if new attacks and strategies are found it is still a constant. The difficult for ums, however, is not a constant, there are new patches, each patch brings new effects to different players, not to mention clokr's "secret project" (which I will not reveal 
) ..
) ..This proves you have no clue about Broodwar progaming. Are you telling me that the game is just as complex now as it was in the days of Grrr? What about the days of Manyard? Are you insane? There is so much complexity now in the game that wasn't there before. Take it up with Nazgul, who you better have heard of. You have no clue what you are talking about.
QUOTE
All of these dedicated mappers and programmers to make ums fun and extremely complex. Have you had any experience with "extended terrain"? How about advanced triggering? A calculator type map for instance? What about extend players to speed up and slow down the game or other side effects? I don't think so.
I have worked with starforge, yes, and I'm a programmer (C# is the language of men) so I don't need to have worked with triggers to know what it's like. What I do is much more complex.
QUOTE
What??? And all this time I thought ihatett was a very good melee player who had tons of experience... ahh...
I do not play terran. I do not use IHateTT very often anymore. That was my name when I was a terran a while back. I only use that name when I need to meet someone online that isn't in my clan. I now am a protoss, and don't really have a name when I play pubbie games, I just type random shit in.
The only thing I can't do as a toss is PvZ. When someone chooses zerg, I either decide to do a wildly gay strat (proxy gate, etc.) or choose terran and 8-rax or proxy rax.
EDIT: I copied and pasted something, which resulted in it being there like 343 times.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by wesmic da pimp on 2005-07-13 at 01:26:13
QUOTE(ihatett @ Jul 13 2005, 12:21 AM)
I have not experienced "true melee" because I don't play terran? ROFL? I play toss, see my sig. I don't have the speed for terran, and neither does anyone on this forum.
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Do you have the speed for protoss? (Does protoss require "immense speed" like terran?).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-13 at 01:31:16
I should add something to my PvZ history.
I was always bad at that, because I only played PvT and PvP before (I took on Pusan's style), and I never payed attention to his PvZ).
One night, when I had the flue, I played a bunch of games with people on this forum. A bunch of them were PvZ (was it against wesmic?), and I was raped. For a while I convinced myself that it was because of the flu that I had lost, but then I tried to play again and lost like 4 pubbie PvZs in a row. After that, I decided never to play PvZ again.
ADDITION:
Protoss doesn't require as much speed as terran or zerg. Terran requires the most, which is why there are so few Terrans outside of the pro level.
Oh, and was it you that raped me with like 1 hatch lings that one night (see above)?
I was always bad at that, because I only played PvT and PvP before (I took on Pusan's style), and I never payed attention to his PvZ).
One night, when I had the flue, I played a bunch of games with people on this forum. A bunch of them were PvZ (was it against wesmic?), and I was raped. For a while I convinced myself that it was because of the flu that I had lost, but then I tried to play again and lost like 4 pubbie PvZs in a row. After that, I decided never to play PvZ again.
ADDITION:
QUOTE(wesmic da pimp @ Jul 13 2005, 12:26 AM)
Do you have the speed for protoss? (Does protoss require "immense speed" like terran?).
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Protoss doesn't require as much speed as terran or zerg. Terran requires the most, which is why there are so few Terrans outside of the pro level.
Oh, and was it you that raped me with like 1 hatch lings that one night (see above)?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2005-07-13 at 01:31:32
QUOTE
Also, notice how no one of any credibility thinks that UMS is harder (that doesn't really matter, but it should at least make you pause and think).
Define credibility please. Cause if you're saying I don't have credibility to represent ums, then you don't have credibility to represent melee.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-07-13 at 01:31:46
I remember when you had the flu, so the change was recent eh?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-13 at 01:32:52
QUOTE(Alpha(MC) @ Jul 13 2005, 12:31 AM)
Define credibility please. Cause if you're saying I don't have credibility to represent ums, then you don't have credibility to represent melee.
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I'm talking about the big UMS guys. See the other thread with me and devilesk (ironically taking your position).
Always nice to single out on ONE point though, right?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by wesmic da pimp on 2005-07-13 at 01:41:25
QUOTE(ihatett @ Jul 13 2005, 12:31 AM)
Oh, and was it you that raped me with like 1 hatch lings that one night (see above)?
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Hmmm, 14 minute game between us, the only units I got was zerglings (120 total zerglings) and I pizzowned you at Luna. The replay is NOT corrupt like our other 1v1's (I beat you PvT, I went goons, killed your wall, gg. Other game ZvP I went quick lurkers to ultras and won. You beat me once when testing one of your maps, ZvP I had lings, you corsair
ed me)Here's the replay of me beating you using zerglings and only zerglings:
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-13 at 01:50:54
Man, don't post the replay, you would have beat me anyways, but I was sick. I watched that rep like 20 times, and there was so much shit I did that doesn't make sense (built corsairs, no cannons, relied 100% on a zeal wall, etc.). I'm not that bad normally, but I can't win any PvZ so you would have won had I not been sick.
Also, it wasn't my map, it was trcc's.
ADDITION:
Here are my matchups:
I play PvT in the vast majority of my games, mainly against my clanmates and in some pubbies. I have good PvT.
I play PvP, mainly against my clanmates and rarely in pubbies. My PvP is OK, but it's gay (I always do something fairly gay in it like 2 gate zeal or Reaver drop, unlike in PvT).
I play PvZ only against people from forums. I have never been able to do it, and don't even know correct builds. I often have to make up shit because I don't know what I'm doing.
I play TvZ whenever I face a pubbie zerg. I can win it most of the time because 8-Rax is so gay on temple, and it's in pubbies.
I really should bone up on PvZ though. I just never play it.
Also, it wasn't my map, it was trcc's.
ADDITION:
Here are my matchups:
I play PvT in the vast majority of my games, mainly against my clanmates and in some pubbies. I have good PvT.
I play PvP, mainly against my clanmates and rarely in pubbies. My PvP is OK, but it's gay (I always do something fairly gay in it like 2 gate zeal or Reaver drop, unlike in PvT).
I play PvZ only against people from forums. I have never been able to do it, and don't even know correct builds. I often have to make up shit because I don't know what I'm doing.
I play TvZ whenever I face a pubbie zerg. I can win it most of the time because 8-Rax is so gay on temple, and it's in pubbies.
I really should bone up on PvZ though. I just never play it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2005-07-13 at 02:03:26
QUOTE
Here's the replay of me beating you using zerglings and only zerglings:
*Sets as screensaver*
Report, edit, etc...Posted by wesmic da pimp on 2005-07-13 at 02:07:26
I hate playing zerg, UNLESS I AM PROTOSS, seems pretty simple to me. Zealots to temps/archs/cracklot seems to do the trick.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-07-13 at 10:38:02
QUOTE
I have not experienced "true melee" because I don't play terran? ROFL? I play toss, see my sig. I don't have the speed for terran, and neither does anyone on this forum.
You haven't experienced true melee because you aren't as good as I thought you would be. If wesmic beat you like that, then you're still at bnet level and I'm not going to listen to a bnet level melee player telling me how to play melee and how to make melee maps.
QUOTE
This proves you have no clue about Broodwar progaming. Are you telling me that the game is just as complex now as it was in the days of Grrr? What about the days of Manyard? Are you insane? There is so much complexity now in the game that wasn't there before. Take it up with Nazgul, who you better have heard of. You have no clue what you are talking about.
Did you read what I said? I clearly pointed out:
QUOTE
Even if new attacks and strategies are found it is still a constant
The complexity will always be constant. There is limit to the amount of match ups and types of units a person can build against another. It might be a big number, the fact remains, the complexity is a constant.
QUOTE
I have worked with starforge, yes, and I'm a programmer (C# is the language of men) so I don't need to have worked with triggers to know what it's like. What I do is much more complex.
Wow, you've worked with starforge. I have worked with regular staredit all the way up to scmdraft 2 using every editor in between (no mods though
). The complexity evolved in ums was much faster than melee. As for programming, I know C++, Java, Python, and VB (not .NET, currently learning D .. if I can find a freaken compiler). Don't try to tell me you're more qualified.Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.Jamal.oO on 2005-07-13 at 21:30:47
UMS is definetly harder! [COLOR=green] Whats so hard about melee?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-13 at 23:15:06
QUOTE
You haven't experienced true melee because you aren't as good as I thought you would be. If wesmic beat you like that, then you're still at bnet level and I'm not going to listen to a bnet level melee player telling me how to play melee and how to make melee maps.
What is your race?
I'll 1:1 you this weekend. First of all, I had a bad case of the flu. Second, it is my worst matchup. But from your comments, such as...
QUOTE
The complexity will always be constant. There is limit to the amount of match ups and types of units a person can build against another. It might be a big number, the fact remains, the complexity is a constant.
[The strategies and tricks you can do each game is virtually limitless. That's like saying you are limited when writing a book because there are only 26 letters.]
...make me confident that I can beat you.
Better yet, let's make a deal:
If you are terran, and I am toss, whoever loses the match (unless it is to extremely gaay cheese, like if I pylon your wall and 2 gate zeal, or proxy gate, or if you 8 rax, etc.), has to leave this site.
If you are toss, I hesitate to make that deal, but I'll do it if you want. If you are zerg, hell no, but I'll still play you.
Are you up for it? Let's do it Saturday.
ADDITION:
Oh yea: you saying that there is a maximum complexity (though wrong, as I show above) is not the same as saying that the complexity is not increasing. It has certianly increased, and the fact that you think the game is just as complex as in the days of manyard shows how out of touch you are.
ADDITION:
Shi t , I gotta go, but I'll see what you write tommorow night.
Also, in that deal, the loser HAS to go, you can't lose then say, "too bad!".
Everything is censored now, I don't remember shit or gay being censored before.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2005-07-13 at 23:21:57
QUOTE(ihatett @ Jul 13 2005, 10:15 PM)
What is your race?
I'll 1:1 you this weekend. First of all, I had a bad case of the flu. Second, it is my worst matchup. But from your comments, such as...
[The strategies and tricks you can do each game is virtually limitless. That's like saying you are limited when writing a book because there are only 26 letters.]
...make me confident that I can beat you.
Better yet, let's make a deal:
If you are terran, and I am toss, whoever loses the match (unless it is to extremely gaay cheese, like if I pylon your wall and 2 gate zeal, or proxy gate, or if you 8 rax, etc.), has to leave this site.
If you are toss, I hesitate to make that deal, but I'll do it if you want. If you are zerg, hell no, but I'll still play you.
Are you up for it? Let's do it Saturday.
Also, why the hell is g ay censored?
ADDITION:
Oh yea: you saying that there is a maximum complexity (though wrong, as I show above) is not the same as saying that the complexity is not increasing. It has certianly increased, and the fact that you think the game is just as complex as in the days of manyard shows how out of touch you are.
ADDITION:
Shi t , I gotta go, but I'll see what you write tommorow night.
Also, in that deal, the loser HAS to go, you can't lose then say, "too bad!".
Everything is censored now, I don't remember s or gay being censored before.
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I'll 1:1 you this weekend. First of all, I had a bad case of the flu. Second, it is my worst matchup. But from your comments, such as...
[The strategies and tricks you can do each game is virtually limitless. That's like saying you are limited when writing a book because there are only 26 letters.]
...make me confident that I can beat you.
Better yet, let's make a deal:
If you are terran, and I am toss, whoever loses the match (unless it is to extremely gaay cheese, like if I pylon your wall and 2 gate zeal, or proxy gate, or if you 8 rax, etc.), has to leave this site.
If you are toss, I hesitate to make that deal, but I'll do it if you want. If you are zerg, hell no, but I'll still play you.
Are you up for it? Let's do it Saturday.
Also, why the hell is g ay censored?
ADDITION:
Oh yea: you saying that there is a maximum complexity (though wrong, as I show above) is not the same as saying that the complexity is not increasing. It has certianly increased, and the fact that you think the game is just as complex as in the days of manyard shows how out of touch you are.
ADDITION:
Shi t , I gotta go, but I'll see what you write tommorow night.
Also, in that deal, the loser HAS to go, you can't lose then say, "too bad!".
Everything is censored now, I don't remember s
or gay being censored before.[right][snapback]262075[/snapback][/right]
You got really defensive when people questioned your melee skills. You could've said all that via pm instead of posting it all here. Unless you're trying to advertise it or something.
The maximum complexity is not going as FAST as ums right now. Ums, you get NEW editors, NEW kinds of trigger systems, NEW ways to make stuff look cool. (And I'm positive there are other things I left out)
Melee just has NEW strategies. That's it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-13 at 23:29:21
QUOTE(wesmic da pimp @ Jul 13 2005, 01:07 AM)
I hate playing zerg, UNLESS I AM PROTOSS, seems pretty simple to me. Zealots to temps/archs/cracklot seems to do the trick.
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I'm not very fast, but even for me TvZ is tons easier than PvZ.
Muta ling commonly makes pros get raped like newbs (even reach, and I am 90% sure legion retired because of 3 games in a row where he was raped by mutaling).
Terran is invincible against zerg early game, and it is so much easier handling muta harass (3 turrets + bunker and keep some m&m around)
Terran controls the flow of the game TvZ, but in PvZ toss has to react to everything that zerg does.
ADDITION:
OK, I am late and I am going to go no matter what after this one, but:
QUOTE
You got really defensive when people questioned your melee skills. You could've said all that via pm instead of posting it all here. Unless you're trying to advertise it or something.
Yes, when wesmic posts a game of my worst matchup that I played when I had the flu, and people use that to gauge my skill, I'm going to get pissed. The only time I played wesmic when I wasn't sick I beat him. However, that was on trcc's map and neither of us could really remember the map (I went sairs so I could scout, and he didn't have enough spores), so I'm not saying I can beat him pvz on a normal map, but my point is that I'm not anywhere near as bad as I am in that replay.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2005-07-13 at 23:35:57
Hate, I just want to clarify this, so there's no confusion at all:
Who do you think, out of the people who have been posting here, actually are qualified for their side to speak for it? Just make a quick list like,
Melee: X person, X person, etc. (if any)
UMS: X person, X person, etc. (if any)
Who do you think, out of the people who have been posting here, actually are qualified for their side to speak for it? Just make a quick list like,
Melee: X person, X person, etc. (if any)
UMS: X person, X person, etc. (if any)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-07-14 at 00:54:35
So long as you continue to be so
predictable, O ihatett, I need not face
you at all. You are your own worst enemy.
(it's true too 
)
predictable, O ihatett, I need not face
you at all. You are your own worst enemy.
(it's true too )Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2005-07-14 at 06:59:58
I view UMS as being strong to keeping Starcraft alive. Why? Well, if it were just an RTS game, a newer one would be made, with newer gameplay aspects, and Starcraft would be abandoned by a large core of people. But, the trigger system allows it to be an RPG, a board game, a racing game, an arena game, a defense, a bound, etc. Perhaps most of what is made using the trigger system is not amazing or extraordinary, but it's alot more open then melee is. There is certainly potential, and this site has helped in making UMS more advanced and open all the time. I mean, where else can you finish a satisfying game of melee, then get your friends and play an rpg, then play a game of chess, a game of battleship, then a racing game, without buying five games? Not WCIII, laggy piece of ****.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by wesmic da pimp on 2005-07-14 at 10:26:06
I don't think that SC is being kept alive by UMS hardly at all. There's still a lot more people playing melee than UMS (don't just think that UMS is played more because there's more UMS games in the game list because most melee games are private games, not pubby). Over in Europe and Asia melee is the dominant choice. Don't know about you, but I bought starcraft because of melee, I didn't even know UMS existed.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2005-07-14 at 11:59:33
QUOTE(wesmic da pimp @ Jul 14 2005, 09:26 AM)
I don't think that SC is being kept alive by UMS hardly at all. There's still a lot more people playing melee than UMS (don't just think that UMS is played more because there's more UMS games in the game list because most melee games are private games, not pubby). Over in Europe and Asia melee is the dominant choice. Don't know about you, but I bought starcraft because of melee, I didn't even know UMS existed.
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That's exactly true. However, I may have bought it for melee, but I still play it for ums.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2005-07-14 at 17:26:56
My brother bought it, and I played it because of the campaigns (I was nine and thought they were really cool when it first came out ok?!)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2005-07-15 at 03:09:15
QUOTE(Sir_Fela_the_Wise @ Jul 14 2005, 04:26 PM)
My brother bought it, and I played it because of the campaigns (I was nine and thought they were really cool when it first came out ok?!)
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lol
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CaReBeaR on 2005-07-18 at 22:19:28
UMS is more complicated cuz its got all da bling bling bam bam shazam. and as wilhelm said, UMS seems to be keeping SC popular