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Staredit Network -> Website Feedback, Bugs & Discussion -> Flaming problem

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-06-19 at 09:59:03

Here, Deathawk, take a look at this.

QUOTE

"Null"
This is NOT a forum for flaming or spamming.
It is just a place where you post topics if they don't fit into any of the other ones.

I don't see anything about relaxed standards. I see that if a topic doesn't fit anywhere else, it goes into Null. I see nothing about a seperate set of rules.

As for flaming and spam in the Null, yeah, there is a lot. Almost nobody reports stuff there (maybe because they see things Deathawk's way). But I was looking at all of the posts made by a certain member and I was suprised to see some of the crap that people were getting away with in the Null forum.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Golden-Fist on 2006-06-19 at 12:43:45

QUOTE(DT_Battlekruser @ Jun 19 2006, 03:19 AM)

If you take some time to work out the numbers, the member rating doesn't have that huge of an effect on your final reputation. It also increases in magnitude based on how many people have rated you.[right][snapback]509376[/snapback][/right]

If by time you mean 4 years of Calculus, then <Rest of joke>

QUOTE(Red2Blue @ Jun 19 2006, 07:38 AM)

I wonder what the point of flaming is... is it really worth the 0.2 seconds worth of pleasure only to recieve major dings against your reputation from the moderators and public?

The only reason I would (minor) flame is because either A) Someone is being so single minded it's frustrating or B) They said something so obvious or stupid that it should be a crime. As for everyone else I have no idea. It's not like flamming is "Fun" or "Cool".

QUOTE(Mini Moose 2707)

Look I posted

Thank you for the post.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathawk on 2006-06-19 at 14:12:16

QUOTE(Mini Moose 2707 @ Jun 19 2006, 08:58 AM)

Here, Deathawk, take a look at this.

I don't see anything about relaxed standards. I see that if a topic doesn't fit anywhere else, it goes into Null. I see nothing about a seperate set of rules.

As for flaming and spam in the Null, yeah, there is a lot. Almost nobody reports stuff there (maybe because they see things Deathawk's way). But I was looking at all of the posts made by a certain member and I was suprised to see some of the crap that people were getting away with in the Null forum.
[right][snapback]509434[/snapback][/right]

Well, then I guess I meant you could post stuff in the Null that you could get away with, but anywhere else it'd be considered spam. =\ That might be because spam doesn't fit anywhere else.

But seriously... when has anybody ever been warned for spam in the Null without posting JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJ.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-06-19 at 15:37:26

That is the point. No one warns anyone there, because no one REPORTS IT.

Do you not listen to Moose?

Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-06-19 at 15:42:31

QUOTE(Kellodood @ Jun 19 2006, 10:37 PM)

That is the point. No one warns anyone there, because no one REPORTS IT.
[right][snapback]509560[/snapback][/right]

I think that's not the problem. The problem is that if they do warn everybody for spamm in the Null, they'll have to warn half of SEN.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by RexyRex on 2006-06-19 at 15:48:15

QUOTE(Jammed @ Jun 19 2006, 12:42 PM)

I think that's not the problem. The problem is that if they do warn everybody for spamm in the Null, they'll have to warn half of SEN.
[right][snapback]509567[/snapback][/right]

Well then, they better get cracking.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-06-19 at 15:52:56

QUOTE(Kellodood @ Jun 19 2006, 02:37 PM)

That is the point. No one warns anyone there, because no one REPORTS IT.

Do you not listen to Moose?
[right][snapback]509560[/snapback][/right]

Some people report constantly. I used to, then I got lazy.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-06-19 at 15:53:25

Then warn half of SeN.

The only way to fix it, is to punish the people who are doing wrong.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-06-19 at 16:01:13

QUOTE(Kellodood @ Jun 19 2006, 10:53 PM)

Then warn half of SeN.

The only way to fix it, is to punish the people who are doing wrong.
[right][snapback]509578[/snapback][/right]

They should get radical, I think. If they don't clean up Null now, the garbage pile will only increase.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-06-19 at 16:05:42

It's been increasing since even when Yoshi was here.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-06-19 at 23:15:49

I'm personally of the opinion of a more relaxed Null. If anyone takes a time machine ride back to the days of two years ago, Null was a lot "worse" than it is now, but nobody was bothered by it.

Null would not be a problem if people stopped whining about members who "only post in Null". Guess what? You don't get any brownie points for posting in Null, so what do you care? You're not even footing the bill for the extra couple kilobytes the topics take up.

Lighten up.

QUOTE

If by time you mean 4 years of Calculus, then <Rest of joke>

It's all Algebra.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by in_a_biskit on 2006-06-20 at 09:44:52

QUOTE(dtbk)

Null would not be a problem if people stopped whining about members who "only post in Null". Guess what? You don't get any brownie points for posting in Null, so what do you care? You're not even footing the bill for the extra couple kilobytes the topics take up.

I agree. I would expect some people might reply to "what do you care?" with something along the lines of "it's unprofessional" or "it compromises the ability of mods to control SEN", though.
--

On your 'rating' system, DTBK, it looks like the whole score is almost completely dominated by SEN age. The other factors are really quite insignificant in comparison. (Consider the components of your current 'score': 1.2[(989.8 + 377.8 + 75)(1.982)], where the colored bits are the contributions from admin rating, age, post count, member rating, and posts per day). Keep in mind that most other members even the same age as you have a much lower post count, so that component will be really quite small for most. And members who joined SEN later would have a proportionally smaller number of posts, so the relative difference would still remain.

Also, I would expect posts per day to be pretty similar for most regulars at 1, up to 2 posts per day - so for most people, that component wouldn't vary very much. Admin rating, similarly, I would expect to be 1.0 for most people who are neither special contributors or nuisances (or at the same level for almost everyone, anyway), so most people could consider that component just a constant as well.

So it seems to me that the system as posted seems like it's just a sneaky way of displaying someone's age (plus or minus a relatively insignificant bit, unless you're an outlier in terms of PPD or admin rating). That's not necessarily bad (it's not the way I would propose to have a 'rating' system), but it doesn't say much about how useful it is in relation to getting people not to spam or flame.

Of course, I would expect the system to undergo further revision if it were implemented - I thought it would be useful to point out where the current biases in the system are.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-06-20 at 10:28:01

Well, since we're bringing our systems in here...

QUOTE

Rating = (Seniority * Rep) - Wounds

Trial Member: ONLY member group allowed for anyone who has under 5 or 10 seniority points.

Rating < 0: Restricted. Uh oh.

Rating >= 10: Member
Rating >= 100: Regular: Must have at least 75 seniority points.
Rating >= 400: Elite: Must have at least 200 seniority points.
^Of course, we can always change the values and add new groups, just some theorycrafting.

Seniority - Increases by one for each day the member logs on to the site. Maybe there can be a button or something to push every day, or just have it not increase if they haven't posted within a certain amount of time since the last increment (24, 48 hours). I'm biased towards seniority, sorry.

I really don't like post count or posts per day to go towards the formula, so this is the closest thing to it.

Reputation - This one gets a little more involved. Reputation starts out at 100.0%. A member's level determines to what degree they can affect it. Each member can set a value for any other member ONCE, but they are able to change their value at any time.

Trial Member: Cannot affect reputations.
Member: Can affect reputation on a -.2 to +.3% scale.
Regular: Can affect reputation on a -.3 to +.5% scale.
Elite: Can affect reputation on a -.5 to +.7% scale.
Staff (?): Can affect reputation on a -2 to +3% scale.
Global Mod (Higher Staff?): Can affect reputation on a -4 to +5% scale.
Admin: Can affect reputation however they want. tongue.gif

And, of course, the Staff and above must factor in that they must use reputation fairly... they have the next factor for punishment.

Wounds - Admin fun time. When someone is warned/fined/disliked by admins or whatever, we set this to some number. It is subtracted from the whole thing at the end. The wound value is "healed" by 3 per day... or some other value. Maybe a percentage, or the mod/admin can set a value for how much to heal it.

I'm not even too sure why I post this... I really could just go code mine in right now.

I also like the GameFAQs system... that one is cool.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-06-20 at 12:37:18

I like your idea.. But this part: "And, of course, the Staff and above must factor in that they must use reputation fairly... they have the next factor for punishment." is really what makes me iffy about the possible implimentation of this..

For one reason: Grudges.

I honestly think that the staff and above will get.. Oh what is the word.. Power hungry(?) and not abide by that rule..

But that's my own opinion.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-06-20 at 12:58:38

Do you really think someone with a record such as yours shouldn't have anything from the "Wounds" factor?

Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-06-20 at 13:20:56

QUOTE

So it seems to me that the system as posted seems like it's just a sneaky way of displaying someone's age (plus or minus a relatively insignificant bit, unless you're an outlier in terms of PPD or admin rating). That's not necessarily bad (it's not the way I would propose to have a 'rating' system), but it doesn't say much about how useful it is in relation to getting people not to spam or flame.

Of course, I would expect the system to undergo further revision if it were implemented - I thought it would be useful to point out where the current biases in the system are.

Yes; age does play a significant part, but there is a limitation each for spam and flame. People who excessively spam for minerals/posts will inflate their posts per day, and the way the quadratic works is after a certain ppd, the multiplier starts going down again.

The admin rating, being a multiplier, can play a huge effect on the rating. Say someone is at 1000 without admin rating being factored in. Then if they have a really bad warn log and hence admin reputation, their rating is near 500, whereas if they are good, it is more than double that.

I see using values of something like (maybe) 250 for regular and 1000 for elite, so differences of 25 and 50 will mean something.

I propose quickly coding this system into 4.1, but not using it for anything, so that a study can be conducted on it.

Then either,
a) it can be implemented
b) it can be tweaked, and then examined again
c) it can be scrapped

In response to your other points; the turth is most members would not in fact be at 1.000 admin rating. Statistically, about 80% of active members have at least 20% warn, and depending on the severity of the acts, then the admin rating would be subtracted differently.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Golden-Fist on 2006-06-20 at 13:25:07

QUOTE(DT_Battlekruser @ Jun 19 2006, 10:15 PM)

What do you mean by worse? When SEN was white, and when I joined Null was worse as in "Nothing was related to real life". You'd have topics like "What's a better name for a goldfish" or whatever it was Kame made, and other silly stuff. But it didn't matter because when people had to be mature, they were, and there were only 20 people posting anyway, everyone knew each other. That's not the case anymore, since there's a lot more (A lot more 12 year olds too) people are not serious when they have to be (As rare as that is).

That is, if that's what you meant. If you mean flamming wise, the only partial "flame" (Though I wouldn't call that) is people saying Yoshi sucks and him saying they suck, and everyone laughing while funny jokes were made.

QUOTE(Kellodood @ Jun 20 2006, 11:36 AM)

I honestly think that the staff and above will get.. Oh what is the word.. Power hungry(?) and not abide by that rule..[right][snapback]510035[/snapback][/right]

Well we've had the same staff for a while now, I think they know how to control themselves, and even so what is there to be hungry for? Oh I can lock topics, I'm sure if a mod makes a slight closing of a thread that was unfair you'll get 80 people talking about it in Null, or here.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-06-20 at 15:11:26

QUOTE

That's not the case anymore, since there's a lot more (A lot more 12 year olds too) people are not serious when they have to be (As rare as that is).

And the crying and whining makesit worse, not better.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-06-20 at 15:35:59

QUOTE(Mini Moose 2707 @ Jun 20 2006, 09:58 AM)

Do you really think someone with a record such as yours shouldn't have anything from the "Wounds" factor?
[right][snapback]510054[/snapback][/right]

I never said that, so why are you trying to twist and constrew what I say?

It seems to me, that whatever I have to say that even resembles anything close to corruption, you immediatly put words in my mouth (As the above quote has) and say that there will be no corruption. Why is that?

All I said was a basic and simple comment that CAN happen, and possibly will. That automatically makes it so I am telling everyone here that I don't deserve anything from the "Wounds"? Guess what? I deserve a lot from the wounds. But judging by how moderators and administrators here judge their actions by how they taste or distaste a person, your system will always be faulty, and will be abused.

So again I ask you: Why do you put words in my mouth?

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-06-20 at 15:48:46

When did I say there would never be corruption? Who puts words in mouths now? Sure, there's probably bound to be some corruption... no system is perfect.

As for putting words in your mouth, I was asking you a question on what you thought, or if I what I thought you were implying was true. Honestly, use some logic: if I wanted to put words in your mouth I'd just edit your posts.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-06-20 at 15:54:48

QUOTE(Mini Moose 2707 @ Jun 20 2006, 12:48 PM)

Edit: You're right. I should have read it more carefully

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kurz991 on 2006-06-20 at 15:58:02

lol this went from some random jabbering to rephrasing a post into question form wtf...?

P.S. I agree with mooses system..cuz there always will be some corruption in any system like this one.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Voyager7456(MM) on 2006-06-20 at 15:58:30

I like Moose's system. I think it has the right combination of reputation and senority without relying too heavily on one or the other.

I don't think that moderator abuse would be too much of a factor, because presumably, offending moderators would be caught and lose their position. I mean, if the person is known to be power-hungry and untrustworthy, they wouldn't have recieved a moderator spot to begin with.

Not to mention if the community felt that person was being wounded unfairly, couldn't they give them positive reputation and balance it out?

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-06-20 at 16:02:53

QUOTE(Voyager7456(MM) @ Jun 20 2006, 12:58 PM)

Unless they were just given the position..

And the community would be more unfair than the moderators ever would be. Ever heard of the bandwagon?

Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-06-20 at 16:09:04

The system is a tad one-dimensional..

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