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you dont get the 2500 back, you lose it, ive done it many times

I got yelled at for saying that to minimoose when taht happened to me. (from everyone) Apparently its not a glitch/bug thingie...

PS- battle.net i mean

I really don't think there should be a way to heal your overmind cuz that gets... gay sometimes.

Are you planning to make the Obs/Overlord/Dropship/Shuttle suicide free (no points penalties) ?

That's the best suggestion I've heard so far in this whole thread. Yeah, I think I will add some more triggers to give certain units no suicide penalties. Observers already suicide free.

Let me make two points. Warhamma, if you hotkey Rines to 1 then hit the corner, you'll be hitting the blank spot on the Marines. For the 2500 wasters and building lifters, try using "u" to unload your bunker. Its faster, and only works for UNLOAD. If it seems to be serious enough a problem, I can make triggers to generate a refund, but I'd prefer not to simply to save space. If you're building an extra 2500 minerals worth of units, you really should be more careful.

It wouldn't be that hard to incorporate anti-lift so why not just do it. It's not like people will abuse it and lift like crazy, and even if they do it just wastes there time. It also prevents any type of freak accidents that might happen.

Make me a trigger system for mass anti-lift prevention, I'd be glad to. I'm not doubling the amount of locations in the map by shoving one over every building.

But, in terms of changes made, I've done two things. One, all transports will suicide free as Chris suggested. Second, I made the trigger not kill off extra Spider Mines when you have no MEN in combat, not no VULTURES.

Let me throw another idea out there: Ditch suicide zones completely and make a killzone. Your units simply get moved to spot where the other teams has some 1397529867 damage stuff. I can even toss in some switches, and make it random chance of it just dying free or having it sent there.

EDIT: Having second thoughts about the transport free suicide thing. What if somebody LOADS expensive units into the transports?

Uh, make one big location over the area and label to be only affected by air. Create another location, the size of a liftable terran building. When the current player brings at least one building to the air location, center the location on the building, and depending on the current building, it'll create a replacement under it and remove the one you lifted. Make a trigger for each building depending on what you lift off to replace each one. This would require some spacing of the liftable buildings, but would that fix the problem?

Just make it so that if you suicide only transports, it will not count off.

Yea I thought about that, but I always took as granted that the units in the Dropship also died, but seperatly from the dropship (so the suicide cost would still be possible)... If you have units in your transport, it's just cancel the trigger of the no-penalty over the 10-seconds... I don't really know.

Oh and, would it be alot of work to put the suicide time penalty different for a couple of units? Like, if you suicide a Carrier/BC/etc... (expensive units), you get somewhere around 15 seconds before you respawn; it'll kinda teach you to let your opponents kill the expensive units instead... Same for small number of units. If you suicide 1 or 2 zergling(s), rine(s), etc..., you would get the common 6 seconds.

And while I'm at it, why not a hero that modify the time in between each spawning? Would cost 2 heroes, and it'd make the 6 usual waiting seconds to 4 or 5 (though 4 seems a little too much).


Also: Might want to increase the penalty even more for huge number of suicided units. If you kill 10-15 of them in a single spawning, you'd have somewhere around minus 1000 points (score).

I think its fine as it is.

I'm considering increasing build times for ITs and Scourge. This would discourage people from using suicide units.

Fool proof anti-lift example. Uses like 2 locations and only one trigger per building type.

You might ask why there is a cocoon there, well because by centering the location directly on the building while its in the air, even with hypers, does glitch it sometimes, causing the building to be build +1 grid space above where it originally was. Others have suggested observers, but they can be moved, even for p12. Cocoons are the way to go.

I have one command center without a cocoon, done the normal way, which illustrates the problem that can occur, of the command center constantly going up.

Ignore the zerglings btw it was just a test.

Now six triggers for six terran buildings that can lift, I think would be pretty easy to do and wouldnt take a very long time.

Also note that the position of the cocoon over the buildings can vary based on the elevation the building is at, such as low terrain and high terrain. Just need a little bit of trial and error. But the example map I posted has the correct cocoon placement over the buildings for that elevation.

Also people might say, oh the cocoons look ugly. Well who cares the system works perfectly and I think they don't look ugly and it just makes the map better.

I've came up with an idea that might be great but can be controversial: Raising the spawn time.
Now, before everyone goes "OMGWTFMOOSE", let me explain the advantages.

1. Team killing becomes less viable with a higher respawn time.
2. You'll micro more carefully because you have to wait longer to get more units.
3. If you win a battle, you'll have more time to damage the Overmind as your reward.
4. People will stop overusing ITs and Scourge because they have to wait longer to get new units.

Give me some thoughts on this...

I think it is a very good idea and it would force people to think their plans out beforehand. This will encourage micro and the reward will be greater. I haven't seen many people overuse IT and Scourge but then again, I haven't played that many times.

IS that just a variation of what I said? I wouldn't mind higher spawn times, since my z-ling rush owns everyone, even Moose.

I still don't get how suiciding would help you and why everyone is talking about it.
some one Help!

OMGWTFMOOSE???6

I VERY rarely actually saw team killing going in a game anyway... The times I did, it only came from unrespectful, or bad mannered members that don't care to play the game. I don't think it's a matter, at this point... Most people play it fair.

Okay, seriously, do you think a newb will micro more (granted he didn't micro in the first place), if he was given more time before respawn? I don't think so. You either play this game for "omg it'z teh UMS map!" or you play it to have fun and improve your micromanagement skills. Besides, it'll make the map kinda like TMA: Your opponent will have much more time to lay siege on your Overmind, and make the game even harder...

I do believe 20 zerglings over 7-8 seconds do an already enormous amount of damage to the Overmind... I don't think they need more time than that :/

Exception being, if you raise the health of the Overmind (if possible?)

Okay, first, just delete them if you don't want people to "use" them -.-.
No one really use them alot anyway... At least not in the games I played. You can't just run towards your opponents and hope to ram into them with an IT or 2-4 scourges... And it's their problem if they only have a bunch of unmicroed units. That's where micro comes into play in the first place (and will eventually decide on the winner).

Suggestion: You might want to have a higher "cost" for the Infested Terran; in which, it would cost like 200 or 300 points (score) to make one. It'll cover up for the already-enormous destructive potential it has. Same for Scourge, perhaps...

I don't think you should be playing Uberena in the first place, if you don't know the point of suiciding your units... But eh...

- What if you have an observer/medic/zergling/ATA units remaining, and, being in a UMS micro map, your opponent decides you shouldn't die yet? Would you rather suicide the single, almost-useless unit, or stay on the battle field and do basicaly nothing?
- What if you have a fleet of 12 mutalisks, and your opponent (not being an idiot), gets a fleet of 7 Valks? I don't think you'd even want to try that scenario... Which is why you should just suicide instead of giving the opponent 12 free kills. He'll just go and suicide after anyway, too

Hope that helped.

You do realize the Overmind has some ARMOR on it? Zerglings only do 3 damage to it per hit, and I could always just slap on another point if I have to.

As for whether or not noobs will micro does not matter. Those who micro should be the ones winning. I didn't intend Uberena to ever be a massing map.

YAY! One more *cough*bug*cough* that DK can expliot.

Terrific idea!!! i love this!! this'll make me dominate even more if possible!

NNNNOOOOOOO!!!! Becuz if you make a mistake

OBVIOUS MISTAKE EXP-
"omgomgomgomg!!! my base is being overun by firebats! lings to the rescue!!!!"
3 seconds later...
"...oops.... nvm... CRAP, MY OVERMIND IS DEAD FOR SURE NOW!!!"

I like it how it isssss!!!!

Thats what the firebat in the bunker is for... i thikn the respawn time should be around 20 seconds, that makes it more microtastic

No! No! No! AND NOOOO!!! I HAVE A LIFE!! im not gonna wait 20 seconds....

Dude, i mean u deploy the unit, and then find out that it wasnt a good choice.

How about a hero that increases the spawn time of the other team?

Thanks, I get what suiciding is now..
but just to point out, it's not likely someone would get 7 valkyries, because then they can''t attack your overmind.

What is the trick so that the overmind hp doesn't show?