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No I left off the A.(wait no I didn't)

The only thing I'm arguing is that Kenoli's suggestion about making asymmetrical maps is a good one that can be used.



I never said it was, and it is just another point that asymmetrical maps can be pretty balanced and popular.




No I'm saying just because he can beat me doesn't mean everything I'm saying doesn't mean anything.

Have you looked at the maps in our forum? Some of them aren't symmetrical. Clearly he means something else.

EDIT: Changed a lot to some, because I realised it wasn't accurate anymore after looking at the maps... a lot of them you still can't fold in half and see them as symmetrical... but it's more in the paths that lead to the same stuff.

Why are you arguing that? No one is arguing against that. Temple is not symmetrical, for instance. We are arguing against his suggestion to make basically random and thrown together maps. You should have known that, and I think you did (but you wanted to troll anywyas).

A lot of them ARE symmetrical.



No, I didn't want to "troll" I wanted to make something out of his suggestions.
I think some of his CAN be used. Such as the first one about "flashY' designs, and give a more organic feel.

But also, I didn't like psycho's original responses to Kenoli's suggestions, because I felt he was too harsh.

But people are already doing organic maps... what are you thinking?

Okay, so you are not only arguing that assymetrical maps are good...

No... I AM. One of his suggestions was that more assymetrical maps should be made. Not the same similar things you see in most of the maps being made.

By "expansions in weird places" he probably means blizzard-style expos scattered all of the place. Those are imbalanced and impractical. Gaia looks extremely organic, but it is symmetrical.

I didn't like that particular suggestion, but about the flashy design part, I thought that many maps are based upon some kind of polygon design with very symmetrical lines just dividing up the map into pieces.

If that is all you are arguing in favor of, why did you say this:



Dude, I'm f*cking leaving because you 1: suck, 2: contradict yourself all the time, and 3: twist people's statements to mean something else.

Organic feels "most" of the time can be done through assymetry. Alot of "flashy" designs are based off of perfect polygons.

Random un-thoughtful maps suck, well planned and tested ones are good. That is all that needs to be known.

Oh, and I don't mind the OP, just you because of your lame-ass trolling. Bye.

I don't mind him either, though I did mind the unwelcome replies PsychoTemplar gave him. Cya.




Yea, I'm sure asymmetry also means random and unthoughtful!

i have to respond to this:

so f*cking what?

that doesn't mean you take his suggestions!

why are you saying this shit? anyways, there are 2 maps that I can think of that are assymetrical: temple and alchemist

yes, just 2

Doesn't mean you shouldn't either. A little VARIETY and diversity wouldn't hurt, it could set your map apart from many other maps too.

I replied angrilly because he came in with a bunch of suggestions he had no intention of carrying out himself... what the hell do I care what some guy thinks should be done. It'd be the same as some guy waltzing into the UMS forum and suggesting some obsurdly boring, yet time consuming map for everyone to do.

You could have said something else more constructive other than, go come back in 3 years when you learn how to play. I don't think that's a good way to gain interest in this forum. I mean in another forum you wouldn't really care because there is an endless supply of noobs

What do you mean by "variety" and "diversity"? Look at most symmetrical maps (like gaia, like luna the final, like r point) and you will see that those look very natural.

To be honest, I don't think the melee forum needs to gain interest from people like him. Be a doer not a teller, especially when you're new. We need people with talent to be interested, or people with the ability to make well thought out comments.

Variety, and diversity doesn't mean "natural" though looking natural is a good quality instead of flashy designs. Variety and diversity basically means asymmetrical and not having the usual similar things you see in most of the maps.



The title of this forum is assistance and IDEAS, he had an idea/suggestion, doesn't mean he has to really do it.

His ideas weren't unique, they were either incredibly dumb, or something everyone already knows. There's a reply button in these forums for a reason... if someones idea is dumb, or really good, you get to tell them.

Yes, but not to the point where you discourage them from even posting.

Look even if their ideas are crap, you can either say something meaningful to mak use of this wasted topic, or you can bash them and flame them therefore causing them to dislike melee even more, leave these forums, and make this more useless than it already is.

What exactly are you saying here!?

If you are saying that each player should not be given the same opportunities (different amount of minerals and placement of nats, etc.), then that is impossible to balance for the 6 different matchups.

By the way, could you tell me what on earth is a "flashy map" by your standards? I assume something like Neo Forbidden Zone, which is a timeless and legendary map:

http://www.wgtour.com/map/broodwar/437b.jpg

I never said that, where are you getting this from?




No... by flashy I mean all the maps that are basically the same and are only made to show off some symmetrical shape in the map which is otherwise plain and boring.

this:

what else could you mean?





Give examples. Nearly all pro maps look fantastic. If you are talking about the maps at SEN, then what you are describing would be much worse than a slightly bland symmetrical map.