Staredit Network

no news on the mappack yet, and it the season starts tomorrow How are the players supposed to train on the maps?

you guys still didnt get an outcome? You should have knocked off all the crap ones and narrowed it down to like, 10. That would have made it easier.

Approximately when would you guys have come up with the map pack?

They should have it done and out by tomorrow.

Bah,

ok i'm talking to the admin of the league on icq right now:
These maps have made it:



He said he will change some minor things with most of the maps. I try to convince him to drop "lands of light and twilight", which is a mediocre map imho and to put another 2 player map, prefarably one of trccs (ursad or gab dunes) in it instead. Fallen matrix, the map with the mineral bug, will be fixed.

Season start will be delayed by one week though, so player get to know the maps first;)

So.... is that's the map pack?

Or are you guys still gonna narrow the list down?

Not that's the mappack. x6.jjean and myself want to take "lands of light and twilight" out and replace it by an other map (although we disagree on which one it should be), but this is pretty much the final list.

I just changed cryptic island more than just a bit, I made some changes he wanted me to do (delete doodads in middle, wide bridges) and some I wanted (slightly more space in the mainbases bottom positions, normal wallin possibilty on every position.) I think I hurt the overall style a little bit by this, but it is needed to make sure everyone can wallin and stuff like that:

[URL]http://www.panschk.de/replays/ESGL_Cryptic Island(o).scm[/URL]

Around the ramps it looks quite ugly, perhaps we will change that in the final version.

my eyes!!!

jk. Well cool, just make sure the top left and top right areas around the ramp are identical to each other and have a "curve" feeling like the bottom two bases.

Wow, this thing is really wierd. Entered maps are apperently changed drastically, a map that isn't pretty or balanced (don't feel bad, my first 4 maps fit that description exactly) is awarded into the final map pack, amd judges can enter maps (there is so much room for abuse).

Also, his original version is better than the new one, zerg can't do shit (it wasn't fair before, either because of the small bridge, so the whole concept is messed up).

It also sounds like Panschk was the only judge who knew shit about what he was doing.

Sorry for the rant, but I am suprised at this whole thing.

WAUW! 2 maps in the pack!

I'm quite happy with Kingdom of Zerus, but after having a second look, it DOES look like it need some modification (smaller islands, prettier bridges and perhaps a reworking of the minerals blocking the second entrance to the base). If I modify it, is there any place where I can send it to you? Of course you are free to pick the old version, if you find that more suitable.

TY, TY, TY!

Oh, and ihatett what maps are imbalanced?

Regds

Hans-Titan

ihatett, which map do you mean (unpretty and imbalanced). If you mean lands of light and twilights, i'd agree, the other maps are fine imho. Even though I'm not that convinced by river of gods, as the minerals on the side of the choke mess with units AI sometimes (if you want to access the expansion in the corner obviously). jjean said he wanted to add another expansion or two, we'll see how it looks after that(It is a difficult question how much the maps should be changed by other people than the original author, at least with blizzard maps nobody has any problems with it, so it should not be here either. On the other hand, other user sent maps that were fine in version 1, they get screwed by this imho.)

I don't understand you critique for my cryptic version. Why is it disadvantage to zerg compared to other version?
-wider bridges=generally good for zerg
-less doodads->more space in the middle=good for zerg
-more space in the mainbases=does not concern zerg really, only the fact that every race can build any tech buildings and as much production buildings as needed might be a "disadvantage", but not an unfair one.
-changed ramps->no change for zerg at all.

The fact that the ramp is in the middle of the ledge is something that has been changed before by millenniumarmy, I think it is a good thing because the walking distance, which is quite long as it is, is reduced a little bit by this.

You are really beeing to negative. I'm not the only judge who knows maps for sure, jjean is a good player and admin of ESGL, lonic is experienced mapper and admin of BWCL, and djin)xuu(l a awesome mapper (there is just a thread on tl.net with his maps). Well the other two made some really weird choices, I think it is the broodwar.de bonus with some maps that are from the german community. They probably don't want to see the sen community to make the whole mappack.

And I still don't see your concerns with the mappers beeing allowed as judges. Look at it this way: without the newspost on sen, the number of good maps would have been much smaller in the contest.(The quality of the maps this time has probably never been seen before in a mapcontest in the german community) If they want guys like me, noname and xuul in the mapteam, they might decline because they prefer sending maps, or the list of good maps might be very short. As the judge can't vote his own maps in, he has no advantage, he even has a disadvantage)

@hans-titan: You could try this, but hurry up. Post the new version (scx file of course) as soon as possible here, If you don't manage to do it today afternoon, it is probably to late, because they will do the mappack quite soon. Things you might want to change: Smaller mainbases, more beautiful big bridges, ramp nearer to the natural expansion, kill doodads on players main plateau, it just takes away space to build. You could make the terran next to the neutral gas expansion @3, @9 unbuildable, so that a push from 1 to5 or 7 to 11 could not be supported so easy by turrets, and make some ground in the middle buildable, so that a push to cross positions is doable.

OMG, I didnt mean Kingdom of Zerus but River of Gods. Modified version will be here ASAP!

Regds

Hans-Titan

lol, ok

jjean wanted me to add 2 mineral stones to the natural expansion at river of gods. And I personally would love to eliminate those blocking minerals, i'm not sure how other ppl think about it though.

Hmmm... I AM NOT adding 2 extra minerals to natural - to many resources for a so safe Nat.

Those blocking mineral are a very high part of the gameplay at this map (MnM force past FE'ding Z, toss can attack T very early (T can still wallin using a depot a minerals, and rax supply at choke) etc. )

Bridges have been made prettier

Islands smaller

Ground to fight on and mains bigger

Blocking minerals moved (NOT REMOVED!:D), and modified to contain 16 minerals.

Mineral placement made prettier (cant stand Plains to Hill way now..)

I'll host it ASAP - hope SEN manages to get it quick through their system!

Regds

Hans-Titan

EDIT: image for your pleasure:

hans-titan, thats what jjean wants to have changed. The text in german says "Minerals have to be deleted and path has to be shut down (close with doodads or sth like that), because of problems with unit AI.

ADDITION:
just use www.panschk.de/upload.php



ADDITION:
channel ESGL on bnet europe

I'm Panschk[FP]

OMG - thats a lot you want changed.

1) As stated before those blocking minerals are just... so big a part of the map..
On a map like RoV those minerals are blocking acess to 3 expos, and still that map turned out to be an OGN map.

In the new version it is now possible to scout properly (agreed, THAT was a problem before! )

2) Gas at middle expos, and a min only at 5 and 11... Hmm... This map is just as big as Bifrost (Actually, IT plays ALOT like Bifrost) and has just as many resources (plus minus 5 chunks). Are you sure you want that many resources? 'Cuz I'm not sure I want to add them...

3) Doodads in main are gone. DW about that.

[url]http://www.panschk.de/replays/(2) The River of the Gods.scx[/url]

Regds

Hans-Titan

Soo... have yall decided what that 7th map is gonna be?

Hi

It would be cool if you could look over the maps and see if there are any mistakes I made while making the "official" version of the maps.
http://www.panschk.de/replays/esgl.zip

I wont be online ce soir, so I just hope it is all good

ADDITION:
there won't be a 7. map. We decided 6 would be enough, as they are all new to the players anyway.

Looks good to me.

EDIT: For Cryptic Island, you need to add "ESGL Official Map" in description

Looks very good! Cant wait to see people play on my maps!

Is there any website, where we can check the news on this? DL replays?

Channel is still ESGL, right?

Perhaps you should post a thread where you reveal the winners. I'm sure yoshi will post it on the frontpage.

Regds

Hans-Titan

Nice job MA and Hans-Titan and whoever I forgot. Post the mappack soon, Panschk.

ADDITION: Crapapples, I didn't make the cut.

http://www.broodwar.de on the mainpage there should be a newspost. I could write a small article about the mapcontest with a possibility to dl all maps that were in it. But not today, I need to chill now;)

the homepage of the league is www.esgl.net (In german I'm afraid)

The maps in the almost final version are on www.panschk/replays/esgl.zip, the very final version should be available at broodwar.de, I hope you can find it although it is in german.

You deserved it man, all your maps should have been the entire pack for thier season. (im not joking)


Big surprise. (jk)

Im kinda disapointed that none of noname's maps got on...

Zerg can not possibly expo on cryptic isle, and that was the map I was refering to throughout my post.

Judges shouldn't be able to enter maps because of the huge room for abuse. Judges could easily trade votes, even if they couldn't vote for their own.

ADDITION:


His were seen as very good maps by some good players, more reason to think this thing is messed up.