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Report, edit, etc...Posted by Stealth on 2005-08-19 at 17:56:31
water can not be lost, and if it is, like captainwill said, it is possible to create h2o
Report, edit, etc...Posted by m2nello on 2005-08-19 at 17:59:22
QUOTE(Stealth @ Aug 19 2005, 05:56 PM)
water can not be lost, and if it is, like captainwill said, it is possible to create h2o
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It is very possible to lose water and if u want to fuse hydrogen and oxygen it will take more energy it will solve problems for a period of time but in the end we will have a water and energy crisis
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-19 at 18:04:46
QUOTE
It is very possible to lose water and if u want to fuse hydrogen and oxygen it will take more energy it will solve problems for a period of time but in the end we will have a water and energy crisis


We can't actually lose water. But we can actually make it either. Water like energy, follows the Law of conservation of energy, because of what it is made of, and its properties. But for hydrogen power, it is only as clean as the process that powers it. For example, if one combined fossil fuel burning and the electrolysis that makes the hydrogen do whatever, you would still have the pollution that is emitted by the smoke. (Carbon Dioxide) But as for hydrogen powered transportation, that is still a way ahead of us, but entirely possible.

QUOTE
Energy cannot be made or lost.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by m2nello on 2005-08-19 at 18:06:44
Use methane it is an infinite source as every animal(including us) produces it ALL HAIL FARTS
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-19 at 18:09:04
QUOTE
Use methane it is an infinite source as every animal(including us) produces it ALL HAIL FARTS


Great. We can even use farts to power the stuff that makes our food! All hail agriculture and the growing of beans! But... how would we get it to work?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-19 at 18:10:22
QUOTE(Tavrobel @ Aug 19 2005, 06:04 PM)
We can't actually lose water.  But we can actually make it either.  Water like energy, follows the Law of conservation of energy, because of what it is made of, and its properties.  But for hydrogen power, it is only as clean as the process that powers it.  For example, if one combined fossil fuel burning and the electrolysis that makes the hydrogen do whatever, you would still have the pollution that is emitted by the smoke.  (Carbon Dioxide)  But as for hydrogen powered transportation, that is still a way ahead of us, but entirely possible.
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I'm sorry but I have to disagree, you can lose and gain water. You can't lose or gain matter. They don't conflict because through electrolysis you split water into oxygen and hydrogen. Would you still call that water? I sure wouldn't
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-19 at 18:12:35
QUOTE
I'm sorry but I have to disagree, you can lose and gain water. You can't lose or gain matter. They don't conflict because through electrolysis you split water into oxygen and hydrogen. Would you still call that water? I sure wouldn't


I meant it in the sense that you would still have the oxygen and the hydrogen, separately (which still is not water because if you applied them in a certain way you could get sugar and some organic compounds when fused with carbon). I apologize for being unclear.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Stealth on 2005-08-19 at 18:14:00
energy can only be transferred and is infinite
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-19 at 18:15:35
QUOTE(Tavrobel @ Aug 19 2005, 06:12 PM)
I meant it in the sense that you would still have the oxygen and the hydrogen, separately (which still is not water because if you applied them in a certain way you could get sugar and some organic compounds when fused with carbon).  I apologize for being unclear.
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You are basically saying you can't gain and lose matter. The problem I see is that the_man103 is just talking about gaining and losing water. You are talking about matter in general.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-19 at 18:17:39
QUOTE
energy can only be transferred and is infinite


I never said anything to the contrary.

ADDITION:
QUOTE
You are basically saying you can't gain and lose matter. The problem I see is that the_man103 is just talking about gaining and losing water. You are talking about matter in general.


Oops.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by m2nello on 2005-08-19 at 19:39:34
QUOTE(devilesk @ Aug 19 2005, 06:15 PM)
You are basically saying you can't gain and lose matter. The problem I see is that the_man103 is just talking about gaining and losing water. You are talking about matter in general.
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Thank you for clearing that up cuz no one else seemed to understand wut i was saying
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CaptainWill on 2005-08-20 at 07:39:04
But the moment we use the hydrogen and oxygen we've extracted from the water, by burning it to make a car run or whatever, then you get the water back that you started with.

That's how it works - the premise of hydrogen power is simply using the energy released when hydrogen burns in oxygen to produce water. It just so happens that hydrogen + oxygen is a simple and very exothermic (releasing energy as heat) reaction. Conventional fossil fuels like heptane (gasoline at its most basic) release a lot more energy in theory, but they need a really pure oxygen supply to burn efficiently, and even then they sometimes undergo incomplete combustion, producing carbon monoxide and carbon particles (soot). That's not to mention the other by-products produced by hydrocarbon-burning engines. Nitrogen in the air starts reacting with oxygen in the high temperatures of the engine (I think - don't quote me because I'm probably wrong) to produce nitrogen dioxide and crap like that.

Of course, water vapour is one of the worst greenhouse gases (10x more than CO2, iirc), but people wanting to switch to hydrogen power like to leave that little point out.

Damn, I've really gone on again. Don't take any notice of my babbling - I got a B in Chemistry this year (2% off an A ranting.gif ).
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