Report, edit, etc...Posted by EruIluvatar on 2004-08-11 at 17:54:51
Ok I dont have time to respond to quotes, this cpu seems to keep freezing every 10 minutes. Can't wait till I'm back at my home in 6 days.
Ok here is what I have. I'm going for a minimalistic approach in regards to unit hp and defenses. So when I have say a protoss canon (Eldarin Fortress), it is a real mofoing FORTRESS. High hp, high armour, high damage, at least in comparison to men. Heroes are going to have alot more hp, a few more armour, and maybe 5x more damage than a regular unit. In regards to arbs, people wont play lotr games unless there is an efficient method for movnig their armies around the map quickly, hence they are needed.
My units are specialized, but enough are generic that the spawns work out quite nicely. If i find some prog to convert my unit settings box to a txt file (im too lazy to write it all down), Ill show you the naming.
Finally, yeah I had thought about doing it all in Elvish when i first started considering how to make my own lotr map ( a long time ago). I would have to find elvish worsd for some stuff, and phrases. Could bear fruit though. THat's all for now all, ill comment on this mana stuff and castles later. Thanks for your input so far, this is great!
Ok here is what I have. I'm going for a minimalistic approach in regards to unit hp and defenses. So when I have say a protoss canon (Eldarin Fortress), it is a real mofoing FORTRESS. High hp, high armour, high damage, at least in comparison to men. Heroes are going to have alot more hp, a few more armour, and maybe 5x more damage than a regular unit. In regards to arbs, people wont play lotr games unless there is an efficient method for movnig their armies around the map quickly, hence they are needed.
My units are specialized, but enough are generic that the spawns work out quite nicely. If i find some prog to convert my unit settings box to a txt file (im too lazy to write it all down), Ill show you the naming.
Finally, yeah I had thought about doing it all in Elvish when i first started considering how to make my own lotr map ( a long time ago). I would have to find elvish worsd for some stuff, and phrases. Could bear fruit though. THat's all for now all, ill comment on this mana stuff and castles later. Thanks for your input so far, this is great!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .Coko[CK] on 2004-08-12 at 09:10:29
Lets see, a counter doesn't have to be gas or minerals, it can be almost anything, such as a death counter of a unit that is never used, such as a mineral patch, therefore gas is free again. Whoot!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2004-08-12 at 11:44:12
Here is my take on the whole castle/mana system. (Rough summary)
This is essentially how it works:
Cond: Always (or Player 1 commands 1 castle, which he'll start out with)
Action: -Wait 25 milliseconds
Set Switch "Player 1 castle 1"
-Clear Switches "Player 1 castles 2-4" (assuming you use standard 4 castles
(Repeat this one for the 4 other options (no castles, 2-4 castles))
Cond: Always
Action: Add 1 death for Unused Unit
-Preserve Trigger
Cond: Current Player commands exactly 1 castle
-Switch P1 Castle 1-4 are cleared
-Current Player has at most (we'll say 639 for a tad less than 20 minutes) deaths of Unused Unit
Action: Remove 1 castle for Current Player
-Add 5000 vespene gas for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
Do you see where I'm going with this? The castle will take (just for now) 20 minutes to make. If the player finishes the castle before he's supposed to (what the death counter is for), then it automatically removes a castle and he has to start again. Use remove and not kill. Kills will mess up the next trigger:
Cond: Player 1 has at least 1 death of Castle
Action: Add 5000 vespene gas for Current Player
-Set to 0 Deaths of Castle for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
Yeah, for a minute I was thinking it would work as one trigger, but it won't. One runs off the timer, while the other is off of kills.
Here is the method for resetting the death counter should castles die and/or be rebuilt:
Cond: Switch Castle 1 is Set
-Switch Castle 0 is Cleared
-Current Player Commands exactly 0 castle
Action: Set Deaths of Unused Unit for Current Player to 0
-Preserve Trigger
This is where the wait for Castle Switch setting takes much hold
-In the space where the switches are set but the player has a different amount of castles, this trigger will run to set the death count back to 0
Problems: This only works with 1 castle at a time
-If players lose a castle, they'll get another 5000 gas
-Maybe disable spells if a player controls more than say 500 gas?
These were my ideas and I have no idea if they work. However I'm rather proud of myself for thinking this up
*Edit*
-This also: makes castles more important
-Well, instead of just disabling spells, disable spells and gas production (not castle gas, mind you)
This makes it simple:
-It is not really a hassle, but it does keep players from being idiotic and using endless spells!
-Therefore, all a player needs to do to use spells again is to start building a castle!
-There are some definite problems, like... OMG NVM! I HAVE THE ANSWER!
There are a maximum of 5 different castle counts (0,1,2,3,4)
-There are ummm 5, repeat 5, different gas ranges
-0-500,5000-5500,10000-10500,15000-15500,20000-20500
-Wait, a little voice in the back of my head says there's some problem...
-Nvm, I don't think there really is one
Oh yes, what was I going to finish up with? Dammit! I can't remember.
Anyone see any problem with this?
Oh yes, it had something to do with the castle ranges and gas ranges...
Here is how you can fix that:
Cond: Player 1 accumulates at least 501 vespene gas
-Current Player accumulates at most 4999 vespene gas
Action: Subtract ___ vespene gas
-Preserve Trigger
Of course this might be blocky and annoying to see the gas constantly go up/down
Try something like this:
Cond: Player 1 accumulates at most 499 gas
Action: Add 1 gas for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
Cond: Player 1 accumulates at least 5000 gas
-Current Player accumulates at most 5499 gas
Action: Add 1 gas for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
Those are his spell ranges : )
I'm trying to think of safeguards
Here is the example of your generic spell:
Cond: Player 1 brings 1 spellcaster to location "Aura of Healing"
-Current player accumulates at least 350 gas
-Player 1 accumulates at most 525 gas (to be safe)
Action: Set all HP for men owned by Current Player to 100%
-Subtract 350 gas for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
Cond: Player 1 brings 1 spellcaster to location "Aura of Healing"
-Player 1 accumulates at least 5350 gas
-Current Player accumulates at most 5525 gas (to be safe)
Action: Set all HP for men owned by Current Player to 100%
-Subtract 350 gas for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
This would be a pretty simple spell system, yet it's made more difficult as you multiply like all the triggers in the map five times. It will take a nice amount of triggering, but I believe it can be done, and if done right and balanced, the rewards will be enormous : ) *Note* Take time now to do this right, to relieve yourself of difficulties and bugs now.
Is there anything I forgot/messed up in this?
I could be hitting a bulls-eye or I could be turned 180o in the other direction, firing madly into the sky. I have no self confidence! Please don't be harsh if I didn't do it right...
This is essentially how it works:
Cond: Always (or Player 1 commands 1 castle, which he'll start out with)
Action: -Wait 25 milliseconds
Set Switch "Player 1 castle 1"
-Clear Switches "Player 1 castles 2-4" (assuming you use standard 4 castles
(Repeat this one for the 4 other options (no castles, 2-4 castles))
Cond: Always
Action: Add 1 death for Unused Unit
-Preserve Trigger
Cond: Current Player commands exactly 1 castle
-Switch P1 Castle 1-4 are cleared
-Current Player has at most (we'll say 639 for a tad less than 20 minutes) deaths of Unused Unit
Action: Remove 1 castle for Current Player
-Add 5000 vespene gas for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
Do you see where I'm going with this? The castle will take (just for now) 20 minutes to make. If the player finishes the castle before he's supposed to (what the death counter is for), then it automatically removes a castle and he has to start again. Use remove and not kill. Kills will mess up the next trigger:
Cond: Player 1 has at least 1 death of Castle
Action: Add 5000 vespene gas for Current Player
-Set to 0 Deaths of Castle for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
Yeah, for a minute I was thinking it would work as one trigger, but it won't. One runs off the timer, while the other is off of kills.
Here is the method for resetting the death counter should castles die and/or be rebuilt:
Cond: Switch Castle 1 is Set
-Switch Castle 0 is Cleared
-Current Player Commands exactly 0 castle
Action: Set Deaths of Unused Unit for Current Player to 0
-Preserve Trigger
This is where the wait for Castle Switch setting takes much hold
-In the space where the switches are set but the player has a different amount of castles, this trigger will run to set the death count back to 0
Problems: This only works with 1 castle at a time
-If players lose a castle, they'll get another 5000 gas
-Maybe disable spells if a player controls more than say 500 gas?
These were my ideas and I have no idea if they work. However I'm rather proud of myself for thinking this up
*Edit*
-This also: makes castles more important
-Well, instead of just disabling spells, disable spells and gas production (not castle gas, mind you)
This makes it simple:
-It is not really a hassle, but it does keep players from being idiotic and using endless spells!
-Therefore, all a player needs to do to use spells again is to start building a castle!
-There are some definite problems, like... OMG NVM! I HAVE THE ANSWER!
There are a maximum of 5 different castle counts (0,1,2,3,4)
-There are ummm 5, repeat 5, different gas ranges
-0-500,5000-5500,10000-10500,15000-15500,20000-20500
-Wait, a little voice in the back of my head says there's some problem...
-Nvm, I don't think there really is one
Oh yes, what was I going to finish up with? Dammit! I can't remember.
Anyone see any problem with this?
Oh yes, it had something to do with the castle ranges and gas ranges...
Here is how you can fix that:
Cond: Player 1 accumulates at least 501 vespene gas
-Current Player accumulates at most 4999 vespene gas
Action: Subtract ___ vespene gas
-Preserve Trigger
Of course this might be blocky and annoying to see the gas constantly go up/down
Try something like this:
Cond: Player 1 accumulates at most 499 gas
Action: Add 1 gas for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
Cond: Player 1 accumulates at least 5000 gas
-Current Player accumulates at most 5499 gas
Action: Add 1 gas for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
Those are his spell ranges : )
I'm trying to think of safeguards
Here is the example of your generic spell:
Cond: Player 1 brings 1 spellcaster to location "Aura of Healing"
-Current player accumulates at least 350 gas
-Player 1 accumulates at most 525 gas (to be safe)
Action: Set all HP for men owned by Current Player to 100%
-Subtract 350 gas for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
Cond: Player 1 brings 1 spellcaster to location "Aura of Healing"
-Player 1 accumulates at least 5350 gas
-Current Player accumulates at most 5525 gas (to be safe)
Action: Set all HP for men owned by Current Player to 100%
-Subtract 350 gas for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
This would be a pretty simple spell system, yet it's made more difficult as you multiply like all the triggers in the map five times. It will take a nice amount of triggering, but I believe it can be done, and if done right and balanced, the rewards will be enormous : ) *Note* Take time now to do this right, to relieve yourself of difficulties and bugs now.
Is there anything I forgot/messed up in this?
I could be hitting a bulls-eye or I could be turned 180o in the other direction, firing madly into the sky. I have no self confidence! Please don't be harsh if I didn't do it right...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .Coko[CK] on 2004-08-12 at 12:03:10
Although they may work, it kinda mucks up the idea of the timing, because sometimes you don't make them straight after, thsu creating problems, and not helping the matter at all.
Conditions:
Mineral Patch for Player 1 has suffered at most Y Deaths
Actions:
Add 1 Deaths to Mineral Patch 1
Preserve Trigger
Players
Conditions:
Current Player Castle Counter Deaths is Exactly 0
Current Player Brings Exactly 0 Castles to Anywhere
Action:
Give Current Player X Minerals/Gas
Preserve Trigger
Conditions:
Current Player Castle Counter Deaths is Exactly 0
Current Player Brings Exactly 1 Castle to Anywhere
Actions:
Current Players Castle Counter Deaths Set To 1
Give Current Player X Minerals/Gas
Preserve Trigger
Conditions:
Castle Counter Deaths is Exactly 1
Current Player Brings Exactly 2 Castle to Anywhere
Actions:
Current Players Castle Counter Deaths Set To 2
Give Current Player X Minerals/Gas
Preserve Trigger
Repeat till you have as many castles as you will wish
Conditions:
Current Player Suffers At Least 1 Death of Castle
Actions:
Subtract 1 Deaths from Castle for Current Player
Subtract 1 Deaths from Castle Counter for Current Player
Preserve Trigger
(Notice no need to give them any Minerals/Gas because they will not require it, it will be given by those previous Triggers)
Conditions:
Player 1's Mineral Patch 1 is At Least Y Deaths
Player Z brings Exactly 1 "Spawn Location" to Anywhere
Castle Counter for Current Player is Exactly 1
Actions:
Set Mineral Patch 1 Deaths for Player 1
Create (etc etc)
Preserve Trigger
Create a new one for each differnet level of Castle Counter you will go up to, and for each spawn location.
Conditions:
Mineral Patch for Player 1 has suffered at most Y Deaths
Actions:
Add 1 Deaths to Mineral Patch 1
Preserve Trigger
Players
Conditions:
Current Player Castle Counter Deaths is Exactly 0
Current Player Brings Exactly 0 Castles to Anywhere
Action:
Give Current Player X Minerals/Gas
Preserve Trigger
Conditions:
Current Player Castle Counter Deaths is Exactly 0
Current Player Brings Exactly 1 Castle to Anywhere
Actions:
Current Players Castle Counter Deaths Set To 1
Give Current Player X Minerals/Gas
Preserve Trigger
Conditions:
Castle Counter Deaths is Exactly 1
Current Player Brings Exactly 2 Castle to Anywhere
Actions:
Current Players Castle Counter Deaths Set To 2
Give Current Player X Minerals/Gas
Preserve Trigger
Repeat till you have as many castles as you will wish
Conditions:
Current Player Suffers At Least 1 Death of Castle
Actions:
Subtract 1 Deaths from Castle for Current Player
Subtract 1 Deaths from Castle Counter for Current Player
Preserve Trigger
(Notice no need to give them any Minerals/Gas because they will not require it, it will be given by those previous Triggers)
Conditions:
Player 1's Mineral Patch 1 is At Least Y Deaths
Player Z brings Exactly 1 "Spawn Location" to Anywhere
Castle Counter for Current Player is Exactly 1
Actions:
Set Mineral Patch 1 Deaths for Player 1
Create (etc etc)
Preserve Trigger
Create a new one for each differnet level of Castle Counter you will go up to, and for each spawn location.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2004-08-12 at 12:11:23
Coko, I believe I stated everything above : ) Check the post before your's. It covers the castles -=AND=- *Yoshi da Sniper gasps, the spells!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .Coko[CK] on 2004-08-12 at 15:40:32
Thats because you added some to yours afterwards, anyhow i like the second bit, although you over do the amount of triggers for each part, i think my first part is more organised than yours and works more correctly, although yours has many points. However, mine can be set for most players, and isn't hard to type, having the same effect.
Although your spell one does look interesting, i think i could develop a more useful version, without using Gas, which could be for another purpose, and replace with a Death Counter, and maybe show it in the Leadership Board.
I'll write it in tomoz morning, which is is middle of the night for you guys.
Although your spell one does look interesting, i think i could develop a more useful version, without using Gas, which could be for another purpose, and replace with a Death Counter, and maybe show it in the Leadership Board.
I'll write it in tomoz morning, which is is middle of the night for you guys.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Silent[wolf] on 2004-08-12 at 15:46:46
i say lotr maps suk it just isent for starcraft 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2004-08-12 at 16:28:00
Let's keep in mind that:
1) Silent[Wolf] keeps on spamming the crap out of StarEdit.net
2) Most Lord of the Rings maps already have one, if not two, leaderboards.
-These are Kills and Hoarding
However, I see your point in not using gas for both things. It might confuse people. Still, I don't see a feasible way to do things. Good luck on coming up with that system (though it shouldn't be hard). Eru, I agree with Coko full-heartedly. I'm angry that I typed all of that stuff up for no reason, but I was under the impression you wanted to use gas. Grrr, that took awhile. Still, if you didn't know how to use a death counter, just check our previous posts. Here, this system should clear everything up:
All Triggers are Player Specific, aka such as P1, P2, etc. Not a Force or All Players
Cond: Current Player has at most 1499 (a much better number for this purpose) deaths of Unused Unit
Action: Add 1 death of Unused Unit (mineral chunk 1) for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
Cond: Current Player brings 1 Spellcaster to Location "Spell Healing Aura"
-Current Player has at least 1000 deaths of mineral chunk 1
Action: Set to 100% HP for all men owned by Current Player
-Subtract 1000 deaths of mineral chunk 1 for Currenty Player
-Move all Spellcaster for Current Player to Location "Spellcaster Spawn"
-Preserve Trigger
Meh ok, I'll do the rest of the triggers and save the map for you. I'll post the map in here in about 15 minutes or so.
*Edit* How can you convert deaths to a leader board?
*Edit2* Stupid Blizzard made it so you have Leaderboard Kills and Death Counts. Why not Kill Counts? *Cries himself to sleep*
*Edit3* After using my mind for 2 minutes, I realized that I could use Kill Counts! I am a freaking dumbass, hear me roar! This is what 4.5 hours of sleep does to you!
OK, I'm a lazy SoB. Good luck COKO. Maybe I'll actually do this map if my head stops hurting...
1) Silent[Wolf] keeps on spamming the crap out of StarEdit.net
2) Most Lord of the Rings maps already have one, if not two, leaderboards.
-These are Kills and Hoarding
However, I see your point in not using gas for both things. It might confuse people. Still, I don't see a feasible way to do things. Good luck on coming up with that system (though it shouldn't be hard). Eru, I agree with Coko full-heartedly. I'm angry that I typed all of that stuff up for no reason, but I was under the impression you wanted to use gas. Grrr, that took awhile. Still, if you didn't know how to use a death counter, just check our previous posts. Here, this system should clear everything up:
All Triggers are Player Specific, aka such as P1, P2, etc. Not a Force or All Players
Cond: Current Player has at most 1499 (a much better number for this purpose) deaths of Unused Unit
Action: Add 1 death of Unused Unit (mineral chunk 1) for Current Player
-Preserve Trigger
Cond: Current Player brings 1 Spellcaster to Location "Spell Healing Aura"
-Current Player has at least 1000 deaths of mineral chunk 1
Action: Set to 100% HP for all men owned by Current Player
-Subtract 1000 deaths of mineral chunk 1 for Currenty Player
-Move all Spellcaster for Current Player to Location "Spellcaster Spawn"
-Preserve Trigger
Meh ok, I'll do the rest of the triggers and save the map for you. I'll post the map in here in about 15 minutes or so.
*Edit* How can you convert deaths to a leader board?
*Edit2* Stupid Blizzard made it so you have Leaderboard Kills and Death Counts. Why not Kill Counts? *Cries himself to sleep*
*Edit3* After using my mind for 2 minutes, I realized that I could use Kill Counts! I am a freaking dumbass, hear me roar! This is what 4.5 hours of sleep does to you!
OK, I'm a lazy SoB. Good luck COKO. Maybe I'll actually do this map if my head stops hurting...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by R)ii(P on 2004-08-12 at 17:31:55
wolf u r so wrong. lets c matrix isnt for sc but yoshi made sumtin more decent than capture the flag which was made by sc makers! if ur confused ur not really smart
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2004-08-12 at 17:33:31
i actualy like how the lotr maps r like rpgs with their building placement and stuff
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .Coko[CK] on 2004-08-12 at 17:50:08
Interesting idea there, so you found out how to correctly do the leadership board eh?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Felagund on 2004-08-12 at 22:50:52
Dude, we are dumbasses. I just figured it out. It's so simple no wonder we missed it. Just use freaking custom scores! LOL ROFL! It allows us to modify it, but nothing else will modify it unless we specify! How could we miss that?!
-Allows you to modify Score
-Shows up on Leaderboard
Why were we looking at death counters? I feel stupid... But anyway, maybe you could look into that castle building stuff anyway. That would be pretty new; it's worth testing in public anyway. I have a new LotR-ish map coming out soon in a few days (I hope). Yes, you can create LotR maps in under 25 hours of work : )
-Allows you to modify Score
-Shows up on Leaderboard
Why were we looking at death counters? I feel stupid... But anyway, maybe you could look into that castle building stuff anyway. That would be pretty new; it's worth testing in public anyway. I have a new LotR-ish map coming out soon in a few days (I hope). Yes, you can create LotR maps in under 25 hours of work : )