Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-23 at 14:49:34
QUOTE(Zeratul_101 @ Sep 23 2006, 09:31 PM)
just edit the original post, you'll get the same posting menu as when you originally made the topic.
ps, i don't like the thing, but i'll play with you when you're done. we have TTT in the meantime
include the quote in the map lol
[right][snapback]566459[/snapback][/right]
ps, i don't like the thing, but i'll play with you when you're done. we have TTT in the meantime
include the quote in the map lol
[right][snapback]566459[/snapback][/right]
Thanks
How can I include the quote in the map if it's not even related to the map. Remember, we were testing TTT
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zeratul_101 on 2006-09-23 at 14:51:03
no, i didn't mean for this map, i meant for TTT. i just put it in ehere so you'd notice
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-23 at 15:00:17
I'm not going to anyway... It's too stupid
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zeratul_101 on 2006-09-23 at 15:01:17
QUOTE(Jammed @ Sep 23 2006, 12:59 PM)
It's too stupid
[right][snapback]566476[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]566476[/snapback][/right]
buts thats all i'm good for
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wormer on 2006-09-27 at 06:50:23
I like The Thing maps very much, because they involve players social interaction. Unfortunately most of them I played were dull maps where The Thing has to eliminate Humans and vice versa. The main drawback of this maps is that Humans may gather together and stay here for ages while The Thing not recover himself. There was one map where players have to collect different items, which spawned randomly, and bring em to predefined places (eg. Oil to Tanks). When all things collected they could choose who is the thing and win if right. They also could use health packs and some other things. It is interesting map, but not perfect.
So, I thought a lot about The Thing maps and even tried to make one for current Mapping Contest, but it is not tested and I dont know how it is playable. So I've got ideas and want to share em with you to help create you really good The Thing map. Hope some will be helpful.
The most intriguing feature of these maps is uncertainty. If players know who is The Thing they would kill him, but em didn't know. So the strength of The Thing is in conspiracy and his strategy must be divide and concquer. This could be done by several ways.
1. All players are the same color, so even they see The Thing they dont know who he is (unless ey see the morph act). In this method you could also create unique unit (marine, firebat and ect. up to SCV, medic and mabe a Zealot) for each player or just the one for all all Players. The Thing could be Zergling, Hydra and what not, but Zergling is most likely there I think.
In this method The Thing must not be very strong, at most to kill two damaged or one full-health Human. Not more. By the way, burrowing ability could be really useful. Mabe The Thing could move fast through some kind of ventilation shafts (which could be represented as broken cell doodad) for fast retreat by burrowing near the enter (you can use detect burrowing for that case).
2. All players are different colors, but The Thing achieves conspiracy by cloak: DT, Kerrigan, mabe Infested Duran. As to me the Infested Kerrigan is the most suitable person I'll explain why.
There it is important not to allow The Thing to be in this form forever. Humans could have some places with detectors where they can hide or The Things energy costs must be appropriate.
Well but just conspiracy is not enough. There must be something that makes Players go around not allowing em to stay TOGETHER in one place. Players must be always in movement. In the space ship it may be as you say lack of oxygen, some kind of ship energy players have to support, different items, cells with dangerous creature specimens or observing cameras. Some kind of lights effects (I mean turning off vision for yourself and making some sort of lights, mabe turrets or smth else) could also introduce an interesting twist.
The social interaction is extremely important. You may include some tasks which could be done only by multiplie players together, for example to reach distant places at once for enableing floor traps against the thing or something else.
Why I like Infested Kerrigan? Well, for beginning it just good fits in the role of The Thing =) Then it can use enshare ability to slow humans, which if rines or bats could use stim to stay in fit for some time. Of course ensare is not costless and soon The Thing must retreat, if want not to be revealed. There could be some places where The Thing can fill up energy. Kerri could also use consume for this purpose (for example there could be some neutral creature-specimens which are given to The Thing when it stay nearby).
An infestation of Humans which stay near The Thing is questionable. Not to say that every player wants to win the game. Wont them all simple give away and win as The Thing? Or if they loose in any way what the point in playing further for them?
Id like to say that allowing Stim Packs, Burrowing and other upgrades at the beginning is not necessary. They can be given by reaching some location (just have a computer player (P9-P11 probably could be suitable) with researched upgrade and give-and-take to say zergling for burrowing research, did you understand?)
And the last, the more players in game the more fun. In that case it will be great if you could done all this for 8 human players.
Well, I think that's all for now. Good Luck in creating the map!
So, I thought a lot about The Thing maps and even tried to make one for current Mapping Contest, but it is not tested and I dont know how it is playable. So I've got ideas and want to share em with you to help create you really good The Thing map. Hope some will be helpful.
The most intriguing feature of these maps is uncertainty. If players know who is The Thing they would kill him, but em didn't know. So the strength of The Thing is in conspiracy and his strategy must be divide and concquer. This could be done by several ways.
1. All players are the same color, so even they see The Thing they dont know who he is (unless ey see the morph act). In this method you could also create unique unit (marine, firebat and ect. up to SCV, medic and mabe a Zealot) for each player or just the one for all all Players. The Thing could be Zergling, Hydra and what not, but Zergling is most likely there I think.
In this method The Thing must not be very strong, at most to kill two damaged or one full-health Human. Not more. By the way, burrowing ability could be really useful. Mabe The Thing could move fast through some kind of ventilation shafts (which could be represented as broken cell doodad) for fast retreat by burrowing near the enter (you can use detect burrowing for that case).
2. All players are different colors, but The Thing achieves conspiracy by cloak: DT, Kerrigan, mabe Infested Duran. As to me the Infested Kerrigan is the most suitable person I'll explain why.
There it is important not to allow The Thing to be in this form forever. Humans could have some places with detectors where they can hide or The Things energy costs must be appropriate.
Well but just conspiracy is not enough. There must be something that makes Players go around not allowing em to stay TOGETHER in one place. Players must be always in movement. In the space ship it may be as you say lack of oxygen, some kind of ship energy players have to support, different items, cells with dangerous creature specimens or observing cameras. Some kind of lights effects (I mean turning off vision for yourself and making some sort of lights, mabe turrets or smth else) could also introduce an interesting twist.
The social interaction is extremely important. You may include some tasks which could be done only by multiplie players together, for example to reach distant places at once for enableing floor traps against the thing or something else.
Why I like Infested Kerrigan? Well, for beginning it just good fits in the role of The Thing =) Then it can use enshare ability to slow humans, which if rines or bats could use stim to stay in fit for some time. Of course ensare is not costless and soon The Thing must retreat, if want not to be revealed. There could be some places where The Thing can fill up energy. Kerri could also use consume for this purpose (for example there could be some neutral creature-specimens which are given to The Thing when it stay nearby).
An infestation of Humans which stay near The Thing is questionable. Not to say that every player wants to win the game. Wont them all simple give away and win as The Thing? Or if they loose in any way what the point in playing further for them?
Id like to say that allowing Stim Packs, Burrowing and other upgrades at the beginning is not necessary. They can be given by reaching some location (just have a computer player (P9-P11 probably could be suitable) with researched upgrade and give-and-take to say zergling for burrowing research, did you understand?)
And the last, the more players in game the more fun. In that case it will be great if you could done all this for 8 human players.
Well, I think that's all for now. Good Luck in creating the map!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-27 at 09:43:36
QUOTE(Wormer @ Sep 27 2006, 01:50 PM)
I like The Thing maps very much, because they involve players social interaction. Unfortunately most of them I played were dull maps where The Thing has to eliminate Humans and vice versa. The main drawback of this maps is that Humans may gather together and stay here for ages while The Thing not recover himself. There was one map where players have to collect different items, which spawned randomly, and bring em to predefined places (eg. Oil to Tanks). When all things collected they could choose who is the thing and win if right. They also could use health packs and some other things. It is interesting map, but not perfect.
That's The Thing: Ice. And It's very disbalanced. The Thing is doomed in there. It can't pick up items, it's a DT that needs 5 hits to kill a human, and it's really vulnerable to spider mines.
QUOTE(Wormer @ Sep 27 2006, 01:50 PM)
So, I thought a lot about The Thing maps and even tried to make one for current Mapping Contest, but it is not tested and I dont know how it is playable. So I've got ideas and want to share em with you to help create you really good The Thing map. Hope some will be helpful.
If you ever need a tester, or need some advice, you know who to contact
QUOTE(Wormer @ Sep 27 2006, 01:50 PM)
1. All players are the same color, so even they see The Thing they dont know who he is (unless ey see the morph act). In this method you could also create unique unit (marine, firebat and ect. up to SCV, medic and mabe a Zealot) for each player or just the one for all all Players. The Thing could be Zergling, Hydra and what not, but Zergling is most likely there I think.
You can understand who The Thing if you see him in his Thing form. Just quickly unally the person you suspect most (or a fiew). If you will see The Thing highlighted red, it's him. Go here for further information.
I think there should be a maximum of two possible Human forms. But I'm using only one - the marine. It fixes a fiew otheer problems.
The Thing should be a slow zergling, I think. It's speed and sight range are optimal for the job, and it looks alien.
Oh, and in my version, a well controlled Thing should kill two well controlled full HP marines. It will use up almost all it's HP in both forms.
QUOTE(Wormer @ Sep 27 2006, 01:50 PM)
In this method The Thing must not be very strong, at most to kill two damaged or one full-health Human. Not more. By the way, burrowing ability could be really useful. Mabe The Thing could move fast through some kind of ventilation shafts (which could be represented as broken cell doodad) for fast retreat by burrowing near the enter (you can use detect burrowing for that case).
Actually I'm thinking about the ventilation shafts... It would be sort of OK to use that, but it wil lcreate a fiew problems:
-If you automatically enter it when you approach it, it can screw up a battle for you.
-If you enter it by burrowing (the fastest "confirmation" method I can think of), then burrowing must be researched, and I don't want that. Even if I manage to make it uburrow if you try to burrow in an open area, it still annoys you.
QUOTE(Wormer @ Sep 27 2006, 01:50 PM)
There it is important not to allow The Thing to be in this form forever. Humans could have some places with detectors where they can hide or The Things energy costs must be appropriate.
The invisible Thing idea is a bad one. It really disbalances the game.
QUOTE(Wormer @ Sep 27 2006, 01:50 PM)
There must be something that makes Players go around not allowing em to stay TOGETHER in one place. Players must be always in movement. In the space ship it may be as you say lack of oxygen, some kind of ship energy players have to support, different items, cells with dangerous creature specimens or observing cameras. Some kind of lights effects (I mean turning off vision for yourself and making some sort of lights, mabe turrets or smth else) could also introduce an interesting twist.
Well, I was planning on using Oxygen in the second version - it will really stop people from standing in one place.
About different creatures, I would want to keep it "Players vs The THings" at this point.
Sight effects can be useful for both hiding and ambushing, if you will see them, then only in the next versions.
QUOTE(Wormer @ Sep 27 2006, 01:50 PM)
The social interaction is extremely important. You may include some tasks which could be done only by multiplie players together, for example to reach distant places at once for enableing floor traps against the thing or something else.
Tasks may come later.
QUOTE(Wormer @ Sep 27 2006, 01:50 PM)
An infestation of Humans which stay near The Thing is questionable. Not to say that every player wants to win the game. Wont them all simple give away and win as The Thing? Or if they loose in any way what the point in playing further for them?
If you're playing with n00bs, sure they will not like being an Infected One, but if you're playing with normal people that just enjoy the game, you will have no problems. And besides, you don't get a defeat if you win as an Infected One.
QUOTE(Wormer @ Sep 27 2006, 01:50 PM)
And the last, the more players in game the more fun. In that case it will be great if you could done all this for 8 human players.
Problems with this:
The amount of players has a huge effect on the game balance, the units chosen, their HP, damage. If you make it a 20 player game (I know that it's impossible), for example, you won't be able to get that much people, so only 6-10 people will be the average amount of players. If so, The Thing would be mede to fight 20 players, but will have to fight only 6-10. That's not good. So, if you make the maximum amount of players closer to the usual amound of players that join, it will make it more balanced.
Also, creating more players, of course makes them die faster. (not everybody can understand this point) It makes a player's life "smaller", the players become like ants. But I would like the player to be more or a survivor.
Thank you for the feedback.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-09-27 at 13:03:50
I suggest to make it round-like, if you haven't already. Like disable the instant victory/defeat and make it so you can play again without rm. It's better to wait for next game in game than in channel you know.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-27 at 14:05:41
DEAD That's a wonderful idea You can play over and over again. The hardest part for the players would be getting used not to leaving the game.
You can play over and over again. The hardest part for the players would be getting used not to leaving the game. Report, edit, etc...Posted by Urmom(U) on 2006-09-27 at 15:34:57
Sort of like the restart feature in my Minesweeper map?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-27 at 15:43:11
Sorry, I didn't play your Minesweeper map. But I think you get the general idea: after a rounds ends, you restart it.
I'm thinking that the host (if the host doesen't exist, the first encountered human player) should choose "To be or not to be" after the end of each round.
I'm thinking that the host (if the host doesen't exist, the first encountered human player) should choose "To be or not to be" after the end of each round.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-09-27 at 16:46:39
Like in CS SIM, the first player that exist get's the power.
Also don't forget some kind of "force restart" feature, in case if they got stuck somewhere.
Also don't forget some kind of "force restart" feature, in case if they got stuck somewhere.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-28 at 01:01:49
QUOTE(DEAD @ Sep 27 2006, 11:46 PM)
Like in CS SIM, the first player that exist get's the power.
Also don't forget some kind of "force restart" feature, in case if they got stuck somewhere.
[right][snapback]568828[/snapback][/right]
Also don't forget some kind of "force restart" feature, in case if they got stuck somewhere.
[right][snapback]568828[/snapback][/right]
What exactly do you mean "Get stuck" ?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wormer on 2006-09-28 at 01:40:32
QUOTE(Jammed @ Sep 27 2006, 04:43 PM)
If you ever need a tester, or need some advice, you know who to contact
Thanks a lot, Jammed =)
QUOTE(Jammed @ Sep 27 2006, 04:43 PM)
You can understand who The Thing if you see him in his Thing form. Just quickly unally the person you suspect most (or a fiew). If you will see The Thing highlighted red, it's him.
Oh, really it is. You can even switch to mode (Shift + Tab as far as I remember) that displays allies with yellow color and enemies with red so you dont even have to highlight him. But it is hard to unally and micro at the same time and you simply may become killed. And then if I find out who is the thing, every time I meet Human I must check. But who will beleve me if I say that someone is The Thing? He may defend just pointing on me. Anyway you have to do some work to find out who is The Thing istead of just seeing that for ex. purple Player is The Thing and shouting to everyone. If so the first time he kills someone he most likely reveal himslef and then everyone knows. The game just turning into hunting on Thing.
About infestation. Am I right that if you just infected and not yet killed you may win as a Human and that if you killed by the thing in most cases you will be the infected one (just because the thing have to upproach his target to kill)?
QUOTE(Jammed @ Sep 27 2006, 04:43 PM)
I think there should be a maximum of two possible Human forms. But I'm using only one - the marine. It fixes a fiew otheer problems.
The Thing should be a slow zergling, I think. It's speed and sight range are optimal for the job, and it looks alien.
Oh, and in my version, a well controlled Thing should kill two well controlled full HP marines. It will use up almost all it's HP in both forms.
The Thing should be a slow zergling, I think. It's speed and sight range are optimal for the job, and it looks alien.
Oh, and in my version, a well controlled Thing should kill two well controlled full HP marines. It will use up almost all it's HP in both forms.
It is OK.
QUOTE(Jammed @ Sep 27 2006, 04:43 PM)
Even if I manage to make it uburrow if you try to burrow in an open area, it still annoys you.
Annoys whom? The Human hunting The Thing or The Thing running from Human? From the point of The Thing to burrow in this case is useless and even just bad. I think it is good idea.
QUOTE(Jammed @ Sep 27 2006, 04:43 PM)
The amount of players has a huge effect on the game balance, the units chosen, their HP, damage. If you make it a 20 player game (I know that it's impossible), for example, you won't be able to get that much people, so only 6-10 people will be the average amount of players. If so, The Thing would be mede to fight 20 players, but will have to fight only 6-10. That's not good. So, if you make the maximum amount of players closer to the usual amound of players that join, it will make it more balanced.
Also, creating more players, of course makes them die faster. (not everybody can understand this point) It makes a player's life "smaller", the players become like ants. But I would like the player to be more or a survivor.
Also, creating more players, of course makes them die faster. (not everybody can understand this point) It makes a player's life "smaller", the players become like ants. But I would like the player to be more or a survivor.
As I said, I think The Thing must be balanced to kill one or two humans. And why you have to change balance if there are 20 or 10 Players in game? So it doesn't matter if it is 20-Player or 10-Player game: in any case The Thing would not be able to kill all of them at once. Thing must hunt on Humans and try to divide em and from this point the map must help.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-28 at 04:14:39
I may try out the Burrowing later.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Gigins on 2006-09-28 at 11:21:55
By getting stuck I mean go into situation where nobody can win. Like last human is camping, if the thing would go there he would die, so he doesn't go there. In other words the game gets stuck.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-29 at 09:28:17
-There will be no camping platforms that offer such advantage
-I'm planning implement Oxygen, so nobody would want to camp for long periods of time
ADDITION:
Bad news again. Xeno has little time to work on anything, so he decides not to work on the terrain. I'm fed up of trying to find a good terrainer, so I'll just make some terrain myself.
ADDITION:
I did some learning about extended Installation, and I'm starting the terrain from zero now. The upper right part is done. It is a terminal that unloads cargo from spaceships. Near it there is a room with computers.
I will make the terrain have logics:
Each part does (or did before this nightmare happened) something, and has it's own meaning. It's not just a dislogical maze.
-I'm planning implement Oxygen, so nobody would want to camp for long periods of time
ADDITION:
Bad news again. Xeno has little time to work on anything, so he decides not to work on the terrain. I'm fed up of trying to find a good terrainer, so I'll just make some terrain myself.
ADDITION:
I did some learning about extended Installation, and I'm starting the terrain from zero now. The upper right part is done. It is a terminal that unloads cargo from spaceships. Near it there is a room with computers.
I will make the terrain have logics:
Each part does (or did before this nightmare happened) something, and has it's own meaning. It's not just a dislogical maze.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Sopris on 2006-09-29 at 13:59:32
Gosh I hate that picture! It haunts me day and night (especially night). But I love the idea for the map! Looks like it will have tighter controls
Looks like it will have tighter controlsReport, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-09-29 at 14:29:39
More controll, more tactics, more strategy, more tension.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zeratul_101 on 2006-09-29 at 20:03:12
QUOTE(Jammed @ Sep 29 2006, 07:27 AM)
Bad news again. Xeno has little time to work on anything, so he decides not to work on the terrain. I'm fed up of trying to find a good terrainer, so I'll just make some terrain myself.
lmfao, poor Jammed, two terrainers couldn't get the job done.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Xeno on 2006-09-29 at 20:05:09
I did do a bit of terrain, but it wasn't what Jammed wanted. I attempted to do some more, but I found myself unmotivated with little time.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zeratul_101 on 2006-09-29 at 21:53:47
yes, Jammed is quite a picky person
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-10-02 at 14:54:29
Yes, I am picky. I understood one simple truth: if you want a jobe done good, do it yourself.
And by the way, my current terrain is quite good I think.
ADDITION:
About 30% of terrain is done. The upper-right part leads to a room with viechles. The bottom-left is a table maze - the kitchen. The middle has a something like a "wall of news" and a fiew tables.
Wish me luck.
ADDITION:
I'm making progress, and now, about 50-60% of the terrain is finished.
I had a cool idea of making a small sized opened door, but unfortunately, only a zergling could pass it, while the marine got stuck, so I had to forget about it.
ADDITION:
Good, 90% of the terrain is done. From Thursday till monday I'll be in St.Peterburg (or how it's written in english ) so I won't be able to work on the map.
I think I'll post the terrain without triggers in the thread before my departure if it gets finished.
And by the way, my current terrain is quite good I think.
ADDITION:
About 30% of terrain is done. The upper-right part leads to a room with viechles. The bottom-left is a table maze - the kitchen. The middle has a something like a "wall of news" and a fiew tables.
Wish me luck.
ADDITION:
I'm making progress, and now, about 50-60% of the terrain is finished.
I had a cool idea of making a small sized opened door, but unfortunately, only a zergling could pass it, while the marine got stuck, so I had to forget about it.
ADDITION:
Good, 90% of the terrain is done.
From Thursday till monday I'll be in St.Peterburg (or how it's written in english ) so I won't be able to work on the map.I think I'll post the terrain without triggers in the thread before my departure if it gets finished.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.Insane.oO on 2006-10-02 at 16:34:47
The thing maps are always fun hope this one is no exception... good luck this seems like it will be fun but you should post screenies even if terrain isnt fully done
hope this one is no exception... good luck this seems like it will be fun but you should post screenies even if terrain isnt fully done Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-10-03 at 08:58:35
Most of The Thing maps are disbalanced.
I don't want to post screenshots, I want to post the terrain as an .scm/.scx file, so you can fully witness my power.
I don't want to post screenshots, I want to post the terrain as an .scm/.scx file, so you can fully witness my power.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zeratul_101 on 2006-10-06 at 16:30:17
all i can say is the terrain is quite impressive, much, much better than anything i've seen on Thing maps(or most maps in general). i'd show you guys the map, but then Jammed would hurt me .
.