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Lol exactly.

Master, your thinking like those hippie people.

I support imigration
I go with the view that more people create more jobs.


lets take for example:

your are in a rural farming community with a population of 10 with only 10 farming jobs and only able to feed exactly 10 people.

and 1 new guy come in, there would be no jobs for him am i correct? but instead he comes up with a new plow, and sells them to the farmers, the farmers make more produce because of the new plow, the new guy makes the plows for the farmers in exchange for the food.

2nd person comes in and trys to find a job, the farmers had a new plow so the community is able to feed the 2nd person, then he realizes the farmers needs better houses, so he builds house for people in exchange for the food.

3rd person comes in with an revolutionary idea, he says lets not trade with food lets trade with these metal coins. trade then flourish and the economy of the little community grows.

ok the 100th person comes in from a city, he sees the rural village doesn't have electricty yet he then establishes an electric line, and makes a living owning a small electric plant.

100-1000th person comes in, selling electric appliances because they have electricty now. alot of entreprenars come in basicly devolepe a market hire jobs ect.

2000th person comes in sees they do not have cars, builds a plant there and also gives a lot of potential jobs at that manufactory plant.


as you can see from my model as more people come in more jobs are opened.

if the rural village didn't allow immigration they would be stuck with 10 farmers and not going ahead.

Sooo.. what don't we have that poorly educated (in most cases) illegal immigrants can give us?

And why would 2000 people move to a rural village?

Lets take for example:

90% of everyone on earth illegally immigrates to America.
Diseases spread rampantly because of people from other countries.
People can't get along because of racism.
People can't get along because of cultural differences.
Civil war breakes out.
People die.

Sky's example is flawed. Each person is making enough food for themselves, not for each other. The first person does nothing but increase the size of the village. Now person 2 who gives them bigger houses gets some food, but not enough to live forever. Person 3 has done nothing, except invented the concept of currency. Why he did this, makes no sense, and how he eats, is unknown. Person 2000 wouldn't build a plant in the city, he would import cars into the city. And we still don't know how th 13 people turn into 100. We're supposed to believe that because they have currency, they grow?

Besides, your example is not applicable. Mexicans don't do that, and modern day America isn't like that.

Without immigrants, America would be dead. They work on most of food production, making clothes, and working in places we go daily.

But without Illegal Immigrants? How do they help?

Okay, do you think a legal citizen would rather get a good education and get a better job, or work in a neighboorhood grocery store? Illegal Immigrants are good for working in places legal citizens who were born in America wouldnt work at. They are like gap fillers.

Yes, I'm sure 100% of all American citizens have the highest education and can become anything they want, even Brain Surgeons, and they all want to.

Anyway, the less fast-food joints the better.

Most illegal immigrants dont work in fast food joints, especially in New York. Most of them are students or people who dropped out of college. And I said most Americans wouldnt work in grocery stores. Also most illegal immigrants in New York work in car washing places, mows lawns, and works in moving stuff in stores. Those wouldnt be high paying jobs. Why would anyone else want it other than student workers?

Didn't I answer this issue already?


Replace the 'Pizza Joint' with Gap or whatever. All it does is increase the amount of money that gets payed to people working at these places, and not by much. America has enough uneducated people without including illegal immigrants.

When people say ' Immigrants are not taking our Job's we are just lazy ' I strongly disagree with who ever agree's with that.

Statement 1:
If you work for lets say a ' Trade ' job such as construction, where most of the ' Illegal Immigrants ' are taking over. That then gives a hudge advantage to the ' Illegal Immigrants '.

Why?

I'll tell you why.

Because while ' Illegal Immigrants ' work for 4.00 an hour they actually get 4.00 an hour, " These Figures arn't right - Just throwing idea's out "

and While a licendes Contractor makes about 65.00 an hour over here, they still need to pay for Insurance, they need to pay taxes so instead of working for 65.00 an hour they really making alot less then you may think.

So while the ' Illegal Immigrants ' actually got the 4.00 and save up, that is making more money then other contractors.

[Side Note:] Remember the Money figures arn't right...

And yes This is really happening in California.

Statement 2:
While we got to pay 500$ for a Band-Aid, and 500$ for a ambulance ride, and 600$ for pieace of cotton, and only there for lets say around 30 minutes.. thats around 1.2 grand. Thats alot of money.

The reason why I put this statement out is because Hospitals work on ' Illegal Immigrants ' for free. While the rest of us ' Working ' citizens has to pay.

Why is everyone for Illegal Immigration? I have no Clue, but im Not. Soon America is going to be Mexico, we already got Spanish on every other place/thing/job in here.

Personally, If mexicans have to much pride in Mexico... why are they coming here? Makes no sence to me. Why have pride in a country where they do not even want to go. O.o.

Couldn't decipher half of that post () but I agree with the last one. Except for the $500 for band-aid or piece of cotton.. What's that about?

Its true. -.- If doctor use's 1 item on you, you pay for the whole entire box.

ADDITION:
What I was getting at for the Statement 1

Is why people who want things done for cheap, they hire Illegal Immigrants for way less of money then a license contractor.

Leaving to be that the competeing becomes more and more, while people want things done for cheap.

So there is really no fight in construction! if people are just going to hire illegal Immigration.

So that means that ' US' licensed contractors! have no more jobs. thus leaving that the only possiblity is that the ' Illegal Immigrants ' are taking our jobs witch is my point.

Yep. Illegal Immigrants both take our jobs and make our jobs pay less.

Lol people are always gonna find ways around these kinda things

Think about the issue in this way:

Some other company sells the same products that you do, but at a lower price. You both have the same quality in products. Is this other company stealing your consumers?

And this is even worse, because in the case of the companies, you can try lowering your price and whoever gives out first loses. In the real world, if you keep lowering the amount of money you work for you won't be able to survive or feed a family, so it's impossible for you to lower your price further.

America is capitalist, immigrants go with capitalism like peanut butter goes with jelly. To say that immigrants hurt the economy in the long run is showing a complete misunderstanding in the basics of the american economy.

Companies notice all the immigrants down here, so they start to HIRE contractors who HIRE MORE workers to build the stores that then HIRE EVEN MORE WORKERS to run them. And it doesn't stop there. Because those stores demand more goods, so that's MORE WORKERS for the factories in other states and countries. Then the gov will notice we need more roads, so they will HIRE EVEN MORE contractors. It just goes on and on.

For the love of god, it's simple supply and demand. How people over look this, and yet still talk like they have room to speak is simply beyond me.

Want concrete proof? Look at our unemployment rate. America is about 5.5% and is full of immigrants. England has no where near the amount of immigrants as America, yet England has double the unemployment. The point is, 5.5% is FULL employment. Until there is unemployment rivaling england's, the racists and closest racists will not have a solid argument what so ever.

We're not talking long-term, we're talking short-term, how it affects you, directly. And it does, negatively, as shown by Beer's post above. It doesn't matter what the unemployment rate is, and the random person on the street is more likely to worry about their own job, not how America is going to prosper because they lost their job.

It DOES matter what the unemployment rate is. Cause that's the entire argument against immigrants. They are stealing jobs from american citizens, so therefore there must be a high unemployment. But there isn't, infact it's the complete opposite. We're at full employment right now.

alright now. most well all but like 3 members of my family were illegal. but either way all my family pays taxes n whats the problem with mexicans in america think about it they help out with so much n u pay back with stupid stuff like "beaner" "go back to mexico u stupid mexican" n alot more stuff (trust me americans are creative) I mean get to know a few mexicans n u'll see nothings different much they sound a bit different or speak a different language or they are darker than u. actaully i found out that most people that are racist just hate people darker cuz one day my sister went to school and made a new friend now my sister came out white with 2 mexican parents it just happened n her friend n her were talking n then she comes up with how stupid mexicans are or something like that. i mean go ahead n hate my race im alright with it but next time u say something about my race my people or my country stay the hell away from them or it and get ur self a good reason why u hate mexicans. r u afraid there gonna take ur job sorry were working in the fields working in construction but were ever we are working we most have a good reason for taking ur job right because think about it i got ur job cuz i work for lower wages no thats not it dont be stupid thats maximum racist stupidity. u cant tell me ur boss would rather pay a worker less than have better buisness no its not that its because some of us are better some of us arent some of us suck at doing what u do for a living so we work in the field become rappers then the other ones that havent done anything like that become gang members sell drugs and stuff like that but thats few if u compare to ur race i guess thats alot but if u compare to the mexicans that arent doing it then thats a little alright. also most of u guys dont have a clue what a mexican or what is in mexico u could ask a brown person were there from they say cuba there mexican right wrong Argentina there mexican right. damn wrong get ur self a clue of why u hate people the reason u hate them n which ones u hate. damn sometimes i cant tolerate what people say about my race just bringing it up on the internet so no one comes at u right the saftey of ur identity. omg

I have to say many of your arguements are very good, but when you say that you get more workers means more production which means more contractors and etc. That does not quite work out right. I hate to sound communist, but much of the rich capitalists are evil they dont create more jobs they lower wages until its the border between finding a new job or staying and then they don't want to hire more people.

Bush when he went into office gave all these businesses tax breaks because when he got into office we had a surplus of money (leave it to a republican to waste our money) and the rich got more tax breaks than the poor. People say this only makes businesses hire more people and expand because they have more money thats WRONG.

I live in Michigan one of the most unemployed states there is (let alone I live in Upper Michigan which has a bigger unemployment rate than the rest), but companys like Ford and other big name companys in Michigan are buying more and more mechanical assembly lines and they have fired tons and tons of workers. They dont need to pay immigrants (which we shouldnt need) because they got money which should be going more to the average person let alone to the war with Iraq.

The Illegal Immigrants help us to some degree with their jobs that most Americans wont work, but when we have what 9-11 million immigrants? We dont have the jobs for all of them and still leave Americans jobs. Another problem is most of the Illegal Immigrants are in the southwest this creates a plethora of problems with so many people who dont pay taxes and recieve our money in such a concentrated area. If the Immigrants were spreaded thoughout the USA this wouldnt be such a issue, but when you have fifty Illegals wanting a job at the local Burger King in El Paso and working for 4$ a hour how can an american compete?
Eventually all it will be is Mexican serfdom.

Another thing that irks me is how everyone talks abour the problem and not the solution. Since im going to talk about solutions that will justify my long post above (Somewhat )

1. Completly switch to Communism I know its extreme but then we could force Americans to work at crappy jobs with Mexicans or rot with no food. We Could ration our food equally and get rid of capitalist scum like President Bush. After all with this Patriot act out have we not lost freedom enough? Even though Communism would solve many problems of who works were and if people get fed we still have to problems of dissent because people wouldnt want to all get similar wages. So to solve that problem we could put in a free market system like Communist China does.

2. Declare every Illegal Immigrant a American citizin then put a huge wall on the border and so no more admittance. Maybe even go as extreme as the Berlin wall. Then we say no sending money to Mexico and if you don't like it go back to Mexico. This way the American government gets its taxes from Mexican citizins and then we could enforce equal wages better. Serfdom of the Mexicans is wrong.

3. This is a bad solution, but this solution many Americans would agree the best one to do. Ship all the Mexicans and Illegals back to their country, and put up a huge wall and then we could work all the low wage jobs. Maybe we could even set up a caste system so even Americans have their own slaves (Rhetorical). Though this solution would cause a huge shortage of jobs and then we would have to put millions of dollars out there to pay for the moving of Illegal Immigrants back to their own country and for border control.

Please excuse me for picking on Illegal Mexicans the most once I realized what I had done I did not want to bother going back and fixing all the errors.

BTW xsZerg I abhor your post not only because you used horrible spelling and sentence construction so that one could barely follow alone your typing, but you touched the question of race in the completely wrong direction. Who is going to take a person seriously when you just call people haters. Thus saying that I dont think its so much about racism as it is about how capitalists charge Mexicans less and having them accept it because its the best thing they can do to make money for themselves.

Bush is evil and touches nearly all of these matters.

well i dont really care if anyone gets touched by my post because by all means its not gonna matter. its not going to make my family be allowed in america. its not going to stop most of my family from having to fight for a job or in some cases to stay alive. I read some of ur post n yeah the 3 solutions u had were good i mean really untill people find out how much the hard labor with minumem wage sucks then maybe we can all work together get along but stuff like taht wont happen.

I am far away from most racism being far north with barely any people of a diffrent race let alone illegal immigrants. I usually don't discriminate against people of another race. I got pissed when I had a bunch of immigrant neibors who blared their music all the time when I lived in Wisconsin, but illegal immigrants shouldnt be here to begin with so if your illegal you shouldnt be here and if your not its the illegal immigrants giving you a bad name.

Fine. They're stealing the jobs we want.

@xszerg - Very touching, but we're talking about how illegal immigrants steal jobs, not about racism.

Let me say something: I'm all for immigration, but not for ILLEGAL immigration. I don't like people who aren't even supposed to be here stealing jobs and lowering the lifestyle of those who ARE supposed to be here.