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Sorry Cheeze, deleted your post instead of mine.

I see being homosexual is roughly as bad as having a certain favorite cereal or putting ketchup on certain foods. If it suits you, go for it, I'll let you know if I don't want in. I don't like being mislabeled as a homophobe. I simply take an interest in science and various claims and theories.

Starcraft: Soap Opera - FTW!!!

seriously, this is just plain stupid. i'm extremely perplexed as how you(cloud) perceive begin left handed as being homosexual. Moose never said you or all left-handed people in general were gay. While i haven't looked into the thread that started this or the PMs between wilhelm and moosey. I hardly think Moose would be one to discriminate. from what i've seen(which is this thread), you(wilhelm) seem to think people are against you simply for having a different opinion over the 'source' of homosexuality.


ps, wilhelm, all the instances of me acting gay(notably the shoutbox incident) were just jokes and me goofing off. i wasn't trying to make fun of bi/gay people - i just find discrimination jokes funny, as long as they are just that - jokes. i personally am not homosexual/bi, but i don't have any prejudices against them.

lol nice topic, Wil.

I thinks it just an opinion about homosexuality as a whole. It's not against certain people like you or screwed or DTBK or whoever else. If it's not proven or disproven, everyone can have his oppinion.

seriously now... your fighting on the internet... we dont give a damn whether your homosexual or not, besides we cant tell by a person if the we dont hear them or see them or they way they act.

also... whatever moose researched is probably the truth... if you can handle the truth then dont speak at all.

plus... why the hell would you make a topic about a private message anyways????

Since (as far as I can tell) no one addressed this, I will. He said that he was offened by Moose's PM. He doesn't care that people believe something other than him in the thread, but personally PMing him to tell him he's wrong is the offensive part. And the PM was from an admin.


I'm right handed. And my left hand is definately gay, so I'm gonna go with moose on this one.

It still shouldn't have been brought up in the first place.



Your calling me ignorant? You dont even have your facts right.



I have a good reason to have what I do against homosexuals..



Your an mean person, what gives you the right to put left-handed people down like that?

I don't care about elft handedness, but as far as I'm cocnerned it's simply a random genetic coincidence that backs up people who are searching for some correlation.

I realize that Moose probably doesn't believe in the left-handed bit, but he made it sound like he did. The fact that he brought it into a PM was what irritated me. If he wants to make his own topic about his evidence, that fine, but I don't have enough facts and news articles behind me to fight this kind of stuff (beyond common sense).

My point is that just because I'm bisexual doesn't mean I want a newsletter on the latest scientific breakthroughs on sexuality.

I think we need these topics so we can get down to the case or the root of the problems. If not then woop de doo enjoy 5 topics on what makes a homosexual.

So right now theres an argument on Moose's claim (correct me if I'm wrong) that left-handed people are most likely comming from the group of homosexuals/hetrosexuals. Right now Moose has 3-6 evident claims of that while the others haven't.

Also on a side contract I can see why Cloud is mad its like saying all people who are mentally retarded will never amount to anything even though thats a sterotype. Because the majority haven't theres always the others who have.

I'm disappointed in you all that you can't work this out. I see two things wrong with this:

1. People not paying attention to the posts and the reasons and only reading what they want to, and not what is there.

2. Continuing it even more so than is needed.

If you'll read, I'll give my opinion on this. If you don't want it, don't read. Of course, you shouldn't only half-read this.

First of all, from what I gather, Moose only PM'd Wilhelm because he was curious for his opinion on the matter. Obviously, that didn't go over well. Wilhelm, you mis-interpreted the reason behind the PM. In fact, I would expect your answers on the subject to be less biased and more informed than most. Even if it is a bit touchy for you, I'm sure most of us respect your opinion on the matter. Think of it this way. Rather than create another long debate topic about it, he asked you. I'm sure you only need say stop asking to have anyone stop.

Another thing I would like ALL of you to remember. Scientific studies aren't always conclusive. Stop taking it as pure fact. And stop saying most. It's a different meaning than [color]more likely[/color].

The final note I have. Stop debating over the causes. Start focusing on what to do now. I'm not going to go into some big long sermon on my beliefs in this matter. As with any arguement, tolernace is needed. Better to agree to disagree than to aruge until neither side can stand the other. This applies to any arguement. (If anyone does want my beliefs on this, you are free to PM me and I'll explain them.)

So if he stumbled upon all the websites that claim the holocaust never happened and then PMed me about it (I'm a non-practicing Jew, by the way), then I should immediately believe him despite the fact that I lost family members in WW2? You do realize that people can "research" anything to prove their point, and just because Moose is an admin doesn't mean he's always correct, right?


Haha. I thought a little sarcasm would be nice. You did get the sarcasm, right? Or did I need to elaborate, explaining how I've never heard the term "left-handed" as you all are using it, but "left-wing" is common terminology? Oh and there's the subtle joke about my left hand being gay, but I doubt everyone will understand that one.

I know it was scarcasm, its still being an ass.

You asked me why I asked you if you were lefthanded. I said it was something I read. You take a stab at "let me guess, all homosexuals are left-handed", so I told you my motives. To bring in a cliché... curiousity killed the cat.


I don't see where I displayed a lack of tolerance towards anybody, left-handed people and homosexuals included.

Let me speak a brief word on tolerance. We cannot assume that the minds of men, women, gays, and straights are identical up to the minute we are born. Is it really logical to believe that all of the chemicals and hormones running through the mother's body can have no effect on the baby's brain development, or that the genetics of the child cannot lead to changes in brain structure or ogranization? We need to obtain a greater understanding our differences. Not to find out who is better or worse, but rather to enable us to find new ways to cooperate and compliment each other.

And why's that? You want real input from me? Fine.

I'm straight and a left-wing liberal. All my gay friends are left-wingers, too. I know straight guys who are right-wing conservatives. And I know of gay people who are right-wingers, too. Do I think that all gay people are leftists? No. Do I think all straights are righteys? No. Do I think Wilhelm's issue is justified? Yes. Do I think it would have been best if Moose didn't PM him? Yes. Do I need to keep going with this and just assume you don't get the point? No.

Edit: Added quote.

Wilhelm... I concede that yeah, I shouldn't have gone through the PM route.
Do you mind if I break the scientific debate parts of this into a thread for Serious Discussion?

I believe that would be the right course of action Moose.

It might be off topic but you might want to cool of there for a moment remember your talking to a garbage bag your talking to an ADMIN

Another quota on this if you ever watched the simpsons Ned Flanders isnt gay but he is left handed and owns a "lefties shop" yet I haven't seen the show's creators put a gay pun in that. The same with southpark. But who knows the reason why some people hate lefties is because during the middle ages left handed people were shunned.



ADDITION:
Sorry to doublepost for the first time but since the edit button doesnt work I should correct this.



What I ment to say is: It might be off topic but you might want to cool of there for a moment remember your not talking to a garbage bag your talking to an ADMIN

Just so Moose doesnt get the wrong idea sorry.

Actually I was talking to Cloud. Nothing I said was in response to Moose. When I first started my response, Moose's post wasn't there. And I wasn't able to edit it to add a quote from Cloud's post calling me an ass for the joke I made.

So your saying that all your friends that are gay are left-handed? That remark almost crys "LEFTIES ARE GAY AND RIGHTS ARE STRAIGHT, AND THATS THE TRUTH!!"



This isnt something you can just "joke" about. This is serious.

Right, despite the fact that I also said, "I'm straight and a left-wing liberal. I know straight guys who are right-wing conservatives" and "And I know of gay people who are right-wingers, too." To me those both say that anyone can be gay and anyone can be straight and anyone can be left and anyone can be right. So I'm just curious, do you actually read the posts you respond to?

I joked about the use of the phrase "left-handeds." Nothing more. The topic is serious, yes, but if you can't take a little joke about one minor detail that has nothign to do with homosexuals or heterosexuals or political beliefs, than you really need lighten up.

I didn't mean you. In fact, I'd use you as an example in terms of understanding, tolerance, and seeing both sides of the argument. Your words show such.

It was more a general observation of how others post, and was meant to be combined with the idea that people just scan and see something offensive to them and immediatly respond. Between those two concepts, I'm trying to get at the single-minded immaturity in some serious posts throughout the entire website, not just here. Because of the structure, tone, and content of some posts, I feel they don't consider everything first. I could be wrong, but unless you're trying to come across as ingnorant and intolerant, I see no reason to post as such. I can't tell everyone to 'grow up', but a bit of maturity in serious matters isn't too much to ask, is it?

Yes, all of your other statements in that made your argument seem very vague though, thats why I only pointed out the first one I noted and processed in my brain.



I'm one of the most immature jokers on sen, don't tell me to lighten up.

So then why are you taking my joke so seriously? Everyone should know my stance on this by now (whether it be based on posts here or in the "discussion" forums).

I figured a joke would be nice. If I was wrong, then it's my mistake. But since no one else seemed to care, I'm not sure where to go with this.

I took it seriously because I took the whole topic seriously, if I didnt care then I'd be making the jokes myself. It's just how I am.

Funniest topic in a while.

Wilhelms 'concerns' are both rational and irrational. He misinterpretted (as far as I understood) what Moose said, but apparently Moose did accidentally imply stuff about homosexuals.

Cloud's being an idiot stupid person right now, turning a joke into a stupid debate, not reading anything that isn't what he wants to read about, and other stuff.

Except for the part that I think Wilhelms concerns aren't 100% rational, my stance is similar to Devlins. I know that the left-gay thing is probably a coincidence (my left hand is gayer then my right, LOL [/sarcasm]), I know that no one is purposely implying that left-hand = gay or vice versa.