Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yoshi da Sniper on 2005-08-17 at 11:28:13
EUD conditions were left unpatched and are harmless because they cannot write to memory. Yes, EUD conditions are allowed in the DLDB, and you don't need an EUDenabler for it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DiscipleOfAdun on 2005-08-17 at 11:41:27
Even though I really worked on figuring out how to do stuff with EUD triggers(remember the .dat offset list), I completely support this action. The potential for dangerous maps with EUD triggers is too big to ignore. Messing with memory the way we were was an invitation for possible dangerous maps. Even if the way that is know to be dangerous was fixed, innovative people would find more and more. It would be a continual fix and refix for any program that allowed them. It is best to leave them in peace and not try to disturb them.
However, Blizzard could have done better. If they had told us that it was dangerous and was being patched, we would not be talking about this now. Most, if not all people would, I believe, stoped using them, knowing that they were going to go away.
However, Blizzard could have done better. If they had told us that it was dangerous and was being patched, we would not be talking about this now. Most, if not all people would, I believe, stoped using them, knowing that they were going to go away.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-17 at 11:45:52
Let's not keep repeating ourselves with things like "Blizzard could have done things better". They could have done MANY things better and not just with EUD's. You can criticize them about anything they've done in the past. They could have patched SC more often, updated the editor, eliminate hacks, reset the ladder, increased the friends list, add clan support for Starcraft and the list goes on and on.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-17 at 12:05:23
QUOTE(devilesk @ Aug 17 2005, 11:45 AM)
Let's not keep repeating ourselves with things like "Blizzard could have done things better". They could have done MANY things better and not just with EUD's. You can criticize them about anything they've done in the past. They could have patched SC more often, updated the editor, eliminate hacks, reset the ladder, increased the friends list, add clan support for Starcraft and the list goes on and on.
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if im not mistaken....u were doin this a few posts back
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-17 at 12:05:57
If I'm not mistaken it was sarcasm.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-17 at 12:06:53
o right reapeting the same thing about 10 times is sarcasm....last i checked sarcasm was overexageration
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mr.Kirbycode774 on 2005-08-17 at 12:07:32
QUOTE(Voyager7456(MM) @ Aug 17 2005, 04:32 AM)
Atleast we still have EUD conditions... (Yoshi, will maps with EUD conditions be allowed in the DLDB?)
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Darn you Voyager! I wanted to say that!
Devilesk, have you ever thought WHY Blizzard never does any positive for us SC people? Let's say they actually did make Starcraft better, such as fixing those things. Does that give them money? NO! Why else do you think they're working on WoW? It's a perpetuating cashflow!
Secondly, by pissing off Starcraft people, we could get annoyed and say "ta hell with this junk" and spend MORE money to buy WC3! In other words, Starcraft generates very little revenue. Can't you buy SC plus expansion for like 10 bucks nowadays? How much does WCIII and expansion cost... $30?
My best example to explain this was when i was at the orthodontist for my bi-monthly braces checkup. We have already neared the end of our braces and I was going to get them off in a few months. Everything had already been paid. And then, what happens? We have to wait an hour sitting around doing nothing!!! "Why" you ask? Because he was spending an hour trying to get a new patient and generate more cash revenue! My mom had already finished the payment, so why should he make us feel like "a special customer" compared to one who hasn't yet?
I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard was using that technique as a marketing strategy.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-17 at 12:10:17
QUOTE(The_Lead_Factor @ Aug 17 2005, 12:06 PM)
o right reapeting the same thing about 10 times is sarcasm....last i checked sarcasm was overexageration
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Yea it is, I'm sorry for being wrong.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-17 at 12:13:13
QUOTE(Mr.Kirbycode774 @ Aug 17 2005, 12:07 PM)
Darn you Voyager! I wanted to say that!
Devilesk, have you ever thought WHY Blizzard never does any positive for us SC people? Let's say they actually did make Starcraft better, such as fixing those things. Does that give them money? NO! Why else do you think they're working on WoW? It's a perpetuating cashflow!
Secondly, by pissing off Starcraft people, we could get annoyed and say "ta hell with this junk" and spend MORE money to buy WC3! In other words, Starcraft generates very little revenue. Can't you buy SC plus expansion for like 10 bucks nowadays? How much does WCIII and expansion cost... $30?
My best example to explain this was when i was at the orthodontist for my bi-monthly braces checkup. We have already neared the end of our braces and I was going to get them off in a few months. Everything had already been paid. And then, what happens? We have to wait an hour sitting around doing nothing!!! "Why" you ask? Because he was spending an hour trying to get a new patient and generate more cash revenue! My mom had already finished the payment, so why should he make us feel like "a special customer" compared to one who hasn't yet?
I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard was using that technique as a marketing strategy.
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Devilesk, have you ever thought WHY Blizzard never does any positive for us SC people? Let's say they actually did make Starcraft better, such as fixing those things. Does that give them money? NO! Why else do you think they're working on WoW? It's a perpetuating cashflow!
Secondly, by pissing off Starcraft people, we could get annoyed and say "ta hell with this junk" and spend MORE money to buy WC3! In other words, Starcraft generates very little revenue. Can't you buy SC plus expansion for like 10 bucks nowadays? How much does WCIII and expansion cost... $30?
My best example to explain this was when i was at the orthodontist for my bi-monthly braces checkup. We have already neared the end of our braces and I was going to get them off in a few months. Everything had already been paid. And then, what happens? We have to wait an hour sitting around doing nothing!!! "Why" you ask? Because he was spending an hour trying to get a new patient and generate more cash revenue! My mom had already finished the payment, so why should he make us feel like "a special customer" compared to one who hasn't yet?
I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard was using that technique as a marketing strategy.
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i wouldnt be surprised if this was true but i think they were just looking out for battle.net users.....it would be realy bad publicity for blizzard if a virus map WAS created
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-17 at 12:15:15
QUOTE(Mr.Kirbycode774 @ Aug 17 2005, 12:07 PM)
Darn you Voyager! I wanted to say that!
Devilesk, have you ever thought WHY Blizzard never does any positive for us SC people? Let's say they actually did make Starcraft better, such as fixing those things. Does that give them money? NO! Why else do you think they're working on WoW? It's a perpetuating cashflow!
Secondly, by pissing off Starcraft people, we could get annoyed and say "ta hell with this junk" and spend MORE money to buy WC3! In other words, Starcraft generates very little revenue. Can't you buy SC plus expansion for like 10 bucks nowadays? How much does WCIII and expansion cost... $30?
My best example to explain this was when i was at the orthodontist for my bi-monthly braces checkup. We have already neared the end of our braces and I was going to get them off in a few months. Everything had already been paid. And then, what happens? We have to wait an hour sitting around doing nothing!!! "Why" you ask? Because he was spending an hour trying to get a new patient and generate more cash revenue! My mom had already finished the payment, so why should he make us feel like "a special customer" compared to one who hasn't yet?
I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard was using that technique as a marketing strategy.
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Devilesk, have you ever thought WHY Blizzard never does any positive for us SC people? Let's say they actually did make Starcraft better, such as fixing those things. Does that give them money? NO! Why else do you think they're working on WoW? It's a perpetuating cashflow!
Secondly, by pissing off Starcraft people, we could get annoyed and say "ta hell with this junk" and spend MORE money to buy WC3! In other words, Starcraft generates very little revenue. Can't you buy SC plus expansion for like 10 bucks nowadays? How much does WCIII and expansion cost... $30?
My best example to explain this was when i was at the orthodontist for my bi-monthly braces checkup. We have already neared the end of our braces and I was going to get them off in a few months. Everything had already been paid. And then, what happens? We have to wait an hour sitting around doing nothing!!! "Why" you ask? Because he was spending an hour trying to get a new patient and generate more cash revenue! My mom had already finished the payment, so why should he make us feel like "a special customer" compared to one who hasn't yet?
I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard was using that technique as a marketing strategy.
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Yea, I have thought why Blizzard never does anything positive for us before. It's obvious they are just out to ruin the game until we all quit.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-17 at 12:17:36
QUOTE(devilesk @ Aug 17 2005, 12:15 PM)
Yea, I have thought why Blizzard never does anything positive for us before. It's obvious they are just out to ruin the game until we all quit.
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let me ask you something....do u think it costs blizzard money to keep starcraft going....NO...it costs battle.net money
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-17 at 12:18:02
Yea, you're right.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-17 at 12:19:05
stop with the f*ckin sarcasm damit
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-17 at 12:19:27
It's not sarcasm, and stop bypassing the censors, thank you.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Merrell on 2005-08-17 at 12:54:55
Lead_Factor and Devilesk.. stop flooding the thread with spam.. please keep your little " fights" to PM's.. thanks..
I only use EUDenabler by myself or with Deathknight. I found out that if you set special ability flags of any unit to subunit.. you can put it on a tank or goliath.. haha this is too fun.... I also have map with 99% of the attacks/spells set to 500,000 Range, the lurkers attack is curved. PM me if you want it.
I only use EUDenabler by myself or with Deathknight. I found out that if you set special ability flags of any unit to subunit.. you can put it on a tank or goliath.. haha this is too fun.... I also have map with 99% of the attacks/spells set to 500,000 Range, the lurkers attack is curved. PM me if you want it.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-17 at 13:49:21
MrrLL as you can clearly see the "fights" which are really arguments are over. The_Lead_Factor has clearly proven he is right and I have admitted that I am wrong.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by ShadowBrood on 2005-08-17 at 13:54:53
Really, no more EUDs isn't such a bad thing. We've made awesome maps without them such as HotH, LoH, Looney Defense. All you need is a good imagination and you can make a wonderful map.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-17 at 14:14:22
yes we know
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tuxedo Templar on 2005-08-17 at 14:42:53
Yes, but not awesome enough for me to want to continue making maps, for one. For the past 50 or so maps I've made (not just the released ones), I've about covered every major possibility within the realm of advanced triggers there is. At this point, I would be treading back on covered ground to do anything else. Without EUDs, SC UMS mapping is not going to change much now.
I realized that way back when I first suggested an automodder, and I hope the rest you can finally realize that now after and this whole EUD fiasco has run its course.
I realized that way back when I first suggested an automodder, and I hope the rest you can finally realize that now after and this whole EUD fiasco has run its course.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-08-17 at 15:30:01
Tux it doesn't really matter if you are not satisfied with what SC can do because you have already done "all" that has been done. I'm sure that even if you must go back and tread over things you have already done you could come up with a new map. Not all maps have to be an entirely new genre or concept to be a good map 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-17 at 16:29:48
well said devilesk
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Voyager7456(MM) on 2005-08-17 at 16:43:23
QUOTE(Tuxedo Templar @ Aug 17 2005, 12:42 PM)
Yes, but not awesome enough for me to want to continue making maps, for one. For the past 50 or so maps I've made (not just the released ones), I've about covered every major possibility within the realm of advanced triggers there is. At this point, I would be treading back on covered ground to do anything else. Without EUDs, SC UMS mapping is not going to change much now.
I realized that way back when I first suggested an automodder, and I hope the rest you can finally realize that now after and this whole EUD fiasco has run its course.
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I realized that way back when I first suggested an automodder, and I hope the rest you can finally realize that now after and this whole EUD fiasco has run its course.
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You can still explore some awesome new concepts with EUD conditions. For example, Deathknight showed me a map where he triggered an action through text!
Deathknight said "Hey", and the trigger executed.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SI on 2005-08-17 at 17:09:07
QUOTE(DiscipleOfAdun @ Aug 17 2005, 10:41 AM)
Even though I really worked on figuring out how to do stuff with EUD triggers(remember the .dat offset list), I completely support this action. The potential for dangerous maps with EUD triggers is too big to ignore. Messing with memory the way we were was an invitation for possible dangerous maps. Even if the way that is know to be dangerous was fixed, innovative people would find more and more. It would be a continual fix and refix for any program that allowed them. It is best to leave them in peace and not try to disturb them.
However, Blizzard could have done better. If they had told us that it was dangerous and was being patched, we would not be talking about this now. Most, if not all people would, I believe, stoped using them, knowing that they were going to go away.
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However, Blizzard could have done better. If they had told us that it was dangerous and was being patched, we would not be talking about this now. Most, if not all people would, I believe, stoped using them, knowing that they were going to go away.
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I assume they didn't tell us for the same reason microsoft doesn't tell people how to exploit windows weeks before a patch comes out. thought about that?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mr.Kirbycode774 on 2005-08-17 at 17:53:47
QUOTE(Voyager7456(MM) @ Aug 17 2005, 01:43 PM)
You can still explore some awesome new concepts with EUD conditions.
Darnit Voyager quit beating me to the post! QUOTE
For example, Deathknight showed me a map where he triggered an action through text!
Deathknight said "Hey", and the trigger executed.
Deathknight said "Hey", and the trigger executed.
Wow.. it looks like you still have a few extra maps before you're done Tux. ^_^
QUOTE
I assume they didn't tell us for the same reason microsoft doesn't tell people how to exploit windows weeks before a patch comes out. thought about that?
SI I couldn't understand what you said. Could you place explain?
Thanks.Report, edit, etc...Posted by Heimdal on 2005-08-17 at 18:10:07
Translation: If Blizzard had announced the real reason they needed to patch EUD triggers, people would have had a 2-week window in which to write and distribute virus maps and everyone would be defenseless against them.
The fact of the matter is that people had a 7-year window in which to do the same thing, but no one realized that it might be possible. If Blizzard had called it out, someone might have actually tried (and succeeded).
The fact of the matter is that people had a 7-year window in which to do the same thing, but no one realized that it might be possible. If Blizzard had called it out, someone might have actually tried (and succeeded).