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God is a concept. You cannot prove his existance.


If he was all powerful and all knowing, then why did it take him 6 days to make everything? Why not snap his fingers and say "poof" and everything appears?

Why not force humans to get rid of sins so the jesus crap wouldn't be thrown around?
Why not come down here on earth to tell us he exists for real and prove it too?

If he is all knowing and loving, why does he want me to go to hell because he knew I would come alive. He knew I would rebel against him. He knew of other religions would come and those would be sent to hell simply because they betted on the wrong religion.

God doesn't really look all loving, but rather, "worship me or suffer for all eternity!". That's more like something satan would say but meh.


Morals is simply based off the condition we live in. Killing would be perfectly fine if our life were based off survival of the fittest, or head collecting games.

Stealing would be fine if there is plentiful food and stuff for everyone.

There are no such things as good morals and bad ones, only opinions.


Know what a human brain is? Know what it does?

Know what experience is?

Put 1 and 2 together.


The creation of earth. The creation of humans. The creation of fossils so scientists who studied this their entire lives would look like idiots once they reach heaven.

Oh wait, that means God isn't all loving. Sucks doesn't it?



Wow, good thing you provided zero evidence or I would have to believe you!

well, the fact that it took him 6 days was an analogy for us humans--we work for six days, then rest for the seventh. it was symbolic for us and our being--we cant work nonstop-and niether can we do everything instantly.


a) God wants us to choose to love him, or rather, he wants us to come forth and proclaim him our God and king. Wheres the gratification of making something love you? its artificial and not really love.
b) he already did that-it happened 2000 years ago. you wont believe me, but i submit that its true.

he does not want you to go to hell, he wants you to love him. if he sends you to hell, it will be because of your spite, hate, and disbelief against him.
Although other religions are the concepts of satan, God uses them to glorify himself through thier falsities.


Yes, God does say, "Worship me or suffer for all eternity." its true. just goes to show that the amount of time we have on earth is limited and extremely important, considering the consequenes.
satan has no ability to cause people to suffer for all eternity. he can only decieve.


well, there is plentiful food and stuff for everyone in the United States, doesnt mean it doesnt come with a price. What if i stole your car, considering that you had one. how would you feel then?

explain how humans developed morals but the greater part of the animal kingdom did not. to them its survial of the fittest.

and you seem to admit that there are morals when you say, "morals [are] simply based off the condition we live," but personally refute that statement when you say "there are no such things as good morals...only opinions"--arent morals supposed to be about what is right and just?


btw what is an example of a "bad moral?"
oh wait, i guess they dont exist.
(i'll admit it, that was a rather week argument)

?
the human brain performs functions vital for human life, and uses logic and reasoning to make decisions affection the life of an individual, correct?
experiences- things that happen which we remember and therefore in some what (big or small) affect us and how we live our lives?
(if i'm wrong in anyway correct me)

well if it was survival of the fittest (what it would be according to darwin) among humans, our morals would be different, not what they are today, right?

i'm confused at what you were saying-how those two things come together to make a valid point.

so the creation of earth isnt explained by the big bang theory, that the creation of humans isnt explained through evolution? i thought that that was the given explianation by most secular scientists. are you telling me that this is wrong?


i see your post teh same way.

Why do you believe in Dinosaurs. The bones only tell time and what it looked like. Just like the Bible, and yet you believe dinasaurs existed. Why? Where's the proof?!?

Some reasons in wich you believe. Not that they're proven or something. Just as a fact clearer. Hope you don't mind.



Good thing then that you didn't named the thread topic as "Proof of God's existance"... *Sigh*
And in other thread you tried to imply that I really didn't know the real terms of English language.



It was only my way of saying that it isn't proven. Choose your religion and have your own fav deity entity(ies). But since you grabbed it... look the paragraph below.

So by that sentence alone, I can infer that God isn't almighty or else it wouldn't allow the bad side to manifest itself in a physical manner. Just not to say others... he created evil (read snake in Bible). Perfection isn't obtained by us or even God it seems. *Meh*



And only those. Like the ones that could be drawn by mere observation (meats you can eat, poison plants, etc.). The rest still lacks to be proven. Isn't science/logic great? *Sarcasm*



What do you have to tell yourself. Just my above reply proves the clash between that you conveniently let slide by.



Again n' again you tried to pull this crap upon us. You're the one who claims that he exists, not us. So the "burden of proof" must come from your end of the line, not ours (non-theists).
The real point is: YOU CAN'T PROVE HIS EXISTENCE SO FAR. Hence, don't try to shove that gimmick on us.




That would be an imense waste of space. We're exploring it now. Perhaps so time in the future it can be proven. Same as for "God".
Understood now why we bicker so much of you insisting on a "non-proof" stance that gets us ticked?



All I can say is... like the one you're trying to pass? *Shruggs face*



Calm down, buddy. It isn't shouting that you'll convince us. In fact, for me it just works the other way around. Solid proofs. That's what I see lacking in here.



I was about to answer this but Cheeze already saved me the trouble. *Pats on it's back*



I guess that the main point is: How do you prove that the world was made in 7 days? Not by C-14 dating, that's for sure.
In fact, you can't prove it, except by sayin' that it was written in a book that for all I care, it could have been written by a Jon Doe to earn a few bucks on principles, fairy tales and some observation remarks laid in the same block. *Grins face*



Nozumu said it better than me.



Aww... Doesn't he look cute, with all that itty bitty arrogance.
Hey genious, and what does the snake in Adam & Eve part? Or even in the part where it temptes Jesus?
Don't be such an arrogant prick will ya? If you began to look (read know after searchin') things a little better, I'd surely support that concept.
Heck, I prob'ly won't be far away to say that even a couple of Christians known of mine from other forums would pound your head for being so untolerant.



Hell, I must be Satan encarnated then. *Looks evily*
Get somethin' new. Not the same ol' mambo jambo again. Glare at the above paragraph with Nozumu's post linked for better answer.



You have an amazing tendency to repeat yourself. Didn't anyone already said why?
That's why we have different conscience from the other living beings (in the Animal kingdom). Evolution. And experience.
No, morals are another definition of what suits the majority better and then generalized to be the normal standard in those subjects. It has religious background perhaps, but not the full claim as you tried to imply.



That's because you can only see things with that religious overlook. As animals that we are, we have emotions that contradict logic. Our brains' conscience tells us otherwise and through experience we take as granted what seems best. Wait... what a dejá vu feeling (look my reply paragraph above).



C-14 dating perhaps? For sums, a scientifical method proved that it wasn't a fake or had incongruences. Alas for you, the same can't be told about the full extent of the Bible.

!@#$%. Go look up what "historical fiction" means!

Another supporting element for dinosaurs: we've found their bones. Has anyone found human bones with wings sprouting out?

Also, I think John's intention was actually "John's not here", instead of "John's no there".

The first link in the first post, in the paragraph about Earth, its called science..


We ADAPTED to these conditions of our earth.

Can someone tell me what happened to Adam and Eve?

Looks to me like they got screwed over because Jesus didn't die for them.

Apparently they're angels now... Actually - I have no idea.

No, everybody before Jesus went to hell... I think. They had sins and they died with sins, unless they died sin-free. Jesus died for our sins, so we get to go to Heaven

(In our religion)

Ah, something you don't know and the bible doesn't explain. Guess whoever wrote it failed to mention all the important parts.

Tell me, what would happen if Jesus hadn't died for our sins. Would we still go to hell?

We've done great deeds to help everyone. We've accomplished all that is considered good in our society, why would we still go to hell?

Even Noah, Moses n ' Abraham? God was indeed a real 'bastard' in those days... for sending to Hell it's own prophets. Guess that doin' it's bidding didn't saved'em afterall. *Delightful sarcasm*

That's why I love debating with ya fellas... you don't even know what your own religion's handy book tells. It may have many different flavours (Calvinists, Lutherans, Catholics, etc.) but the essential it's the same.

Again, 'till proven Hell is also a concept. Shared by many religions, it may be, but an idea never the less.

Infinity isn't just a concept. If you've reached at least Pre-Calculus in mathematics, you would have learned about "limits". E.g., as x approaches infinity, anything divided by x gets closer and closer to zero. Oops, I think I've gone too deep.


Wow, that's just the opposite of what the facts present to you. Honestly, I understand the devotion of all of you Christians/Catholics/etc. (referred to in the rest of this post as "Christians"), and you'd probably be as frustrated as me that the people on the other end of the arguement seem to be too ignorant to understand what you're trying to prove. Just one comment: if you really need God to teach you morals, that's fabulous, as long as if you don't do wrong stuff just because "God taught you to do it." However, myself, personally, did not encounter the idea of God until I was fairly grown up. Before then, I had learned about morals in a school in urban Beijing, i.e., NO RELIGION WHATSOEVER (Confucianism isn't a religion!). My personal opinion is, therefore, if you all need to call each other idiots over God (whose main purpose, whichever side you are on, is to make people better, right?), then I have no choice but to brand this topic "Oxymoron Debate by Plain Old Morons"

Basan:
Christianity is based on faith between a man and his God. Each man is measured differently, according to how much of his faith he had been taught, get it?

Abraham, Moses, and Co. all gave sacrifices as it was stated in Leviticus. However, later God anulled that when he sent Jesus who would late be the rest of the world's sacrificial lamb.

Get it?

So only people who did not believe in God went to hell back then, eventually God wanted to save us from hell, so he sent his son.

No, God is an almight being. He lets everyone choose to either be with him or go against him as i;ve said many times. Satan was the first person/angel ever to choose to turn away from God. Adam and Eve were given specific instructions not to eat from the Tree of wisdom and evil but Satan the snake deceived them. God didn't leave satan there out on purpose; in the end he'll receive his punishment. If he allowed the bad guys to manifest, it would be like controlling people. He doesn't want us to be like that.


The teachings/miracles cannot be scientifically proven but it is just up to you whether to believe it or not. But the historical things mentioned in the Bible as you said were true, which then contradicts what people have been saying all along; "The whole bible is just pure bull ."


Again and again i do, but u still dont get it. I claim he exists because I believe in him. It's not because of proof, but faith.


I know, i've said that many times. You guys also can't prove his nonexistance either so dont give me that bull where you say "Since you can't prove his existance, then god doesn't exist."

Man im repeating myself over and over again...


Sorry, but noone can ever provide what you would call your "solid proof."


I know perfectly what it means. It's not fiction, it's all true stuff. So in that case, it would indisputably be referred to as a nonfiction.


They went to heaven because they believed in God and put their faith in him.


No, everybody before Jesus had to sacrifice lambs just like jesus sacrificed himself for us.

Holy crapamoly. I'd hate to call anyone an idiot, but... Millenium, you're pushing me pretty far. Historical fiction is a work of fiction based on history, i.e. SOME real history, SOME made up. The reason I think the Bible is under this category is because many things are proven, but others are simply not logical.

By letting Satan be there, you have proven god isn't almighty since there is something he didn't know: Adam and Even taking the apple. God got gged.


No, part of the bible is crap. But just because 50% of it is real, doens't make it 100%.

So, uh, what "teachings/miracles" are you talking about?


*cough* Burden of Proof *cough*


*cough* Occam's Razor *cough*


So you're saying, I could live my life however I want, but so long as before I die, I put faith in God, I'll go to heaven? Sweet!

I'm agnostic... to me this isn't proof at all.

Ok, although there is no proof that god exsists, what proof is there against it?


This is a wierd thing. I think that everyone who firmly believed in god went to heven and all who didnt went to hell. Jesus died to forgive us, but that is only because so many people were going to hell. Why did God save Noah? Noah was one of the few who firmly believed in God and god saved only him.

Nono, i believe it's ALL real history, NOTHING is made up. You really can't use logic to prove some of those things but that doesnt mean it's made up.


He knows everything, he knows what would happen. He knew they would take the apple but he didn't stop them because it was really their choice and he doesnt want to coerce them to do things his own way.


50% of the bible is irrefutably made up of real facts, whether you look at it from a christian view or atheist view or not. But the other 50%, the part that actually matters, is where all the controversy talk occurs. So those people that say it's 100% crap are wrong. If you think its partially wrong, then ok, there's nothing i can do. Cant coerce you or give you an eloquence for my stance.


Plenty, but i'll just list a few:

Jesus healing the sick, raising people from the dead, Loving your God with all your soul and with all your mind, putting your faith into Jesus and you shall reach salvation, Moses 10 commandments...


Yes, but the attitude in which you take it is wrong. If you just choose to believe in God to "test" him, then that's the wrong mindset. You're suppose to build up a relationship with him through prayer sometimes and be humble. Laziness isn't the way either. If you're like "Ok I believe in God now, im saved!" that's being a little bit apathetic.


And i'd like to know your thoughts on why?


Yup, exactly my point. Some people just dont get it though...

I feel sucky for answering this so fast.



So, why would god create satan? Why would he create humans if he knew people would rebel against him? Why would he use the flood instead of doing something cool. Like turning all bad humans into cats.



The miracles have no evidence of ever happening.

The teachings could be made up. Schools can easily make up stuff and you learn it and believe it. That is, until you realize, there is no evidence for anything they say. In whichcase, the burden of proof is on them.



As long as I'm granted eternal salvation, I'm fine with my way. ;D



Yup, exactly my point. Of course, I think you guys failed to read what I said (and many others have said). The burden of proof is on you. Not us.

Does God really exist? i think in logic terms he doesnt but the mind thinks he is real inside of u.



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Yeah, why did God create Satan if he knew forever before that Satan would turn from Him? Why would God even let Satan exist? Maybe Satan is something of another God, but "God" God is the superior one.

That's kind of what I've always though, Felagund.

Lucifer was a powerful angel who thought he could be god. God got angry and sent him to hell. God let him exist in the first place because he loved him beyond all measures.

I have heard theories that God and Lucifer were a Gay couple, and that is why the bible preaches against it. I have no records of it though, and don't put much faith in it.

Because its not considered proof at all. All of these things are either fake, or are completely coincidental to point towards god exists. What about proof that god DOESN'T exist? You know why you can't see that? Because religious people don't want anyone to know, and nonreligious don't care.

Here's my questions on the orgins of the universe. The planets were made from dust n all. Okay.

If your god made earth, who made god?