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Perhaps I'm the only one who read it this way, but it takes much faith in that the atheist must have faith in himself and in the reality he perceives, not because of a lack of a deity to believe in, but because of the self-reliance that comes with an atheistic philosophy.

And perhaps I'm reading a little too much into it?



Hey man, where's my kudos! Don't you intend to make good on that statement of altruism?

Yeah. I intended to give ya both karma but the darn button disappeared on me.
Maybe imaginary kudos will do the trick as well... altough I don't think you'll buy this (karma instead of kudos).

What if someone has a belief that he must kill everyone who doesn't agree with his ideology?

humm a "religion" talk on SEN this is interesting but really whats the point..?

This is true, but. Its when religions discriminate eachother, when one religion tells another its wrong. I know plenty of athiest people who say beleiving in jesus is wrong and they make fun of the Christian religion. If people would keep their mouths shut there would never be fights over religion.

Think of it this way. If you like the colour blue and I keep telling you thats a gay colour and only fags like it, you would fight back insulting my preferable colour. It would go on and on. Anyways thats a bad example. Heh, thats my perspective.

I just said, it's very foolish to discriminate like that, which is what you are saying, killing people who don't believe with your ideology.

And for my color example, if someone said the color blue was gay, and I said it wasn't and it went on and on, then the person who started saying it was gay and discriminating is very foolish. Like I said, it shouldn't even start.

It's not that they're saying it's a gay color. It's that they're saying it's not blue, it's green. The ones that do say it's a gay color, are just being dumbasses on that subject. So yes, it is a bad example. But my example is just pointing out, don't judge religion on a "gay to coolness" scale. Judge it on a "Wrong to Right" scale.

BTW: Every christian says that every other ideology is wrong indirectly by praying every night. (You can use "Christian", and "praying", as a variable for w/e ideology you want)

Many of us wouldn't be around. Mainly due to the lack of tolerance that that 'philosophy' preached. And it would be that simple, alas.
(Think of the islamic fundamentalist jihads for a regretable example of it.)



As if I didn't saw already the other side of this coin... at least atheiests don't go preaching door to doorstep.
And tolerance is the key here. Know what they stand for and respect it, no matter wich side you're from. It works both ways. (I know it works for me n' my ol' man, 'cause he's C.Christian and I'm agnostic. We hear the other side's opinions and altough we may not agree with it we don't try to shove it around one another.)
But generally I only see atheists mocking religion when someone tries to stuff it down their faces.

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Not the "wrong to right" scale... that only works depending on the eye of the beholder. And it's especially glitched if it's a religious eye, at least most of the times.
As we can see here, it relies mostly on the religious referencial that folk uses and usually nothin' much else. Imho, logic reasoning leaps away when these comparisons start.

I see some of you didn't get the point of the reply here. so let me break it down into little bit easier words:

Devil said the way people believe doesn't matter. Which is really nice and all.

I said it DOES matter, IF (insert x condition(s))

btw, on a wrong to rightness scale, i should've used a, false to fact scale or something more like that. The one I said could've been taken the wrong way, and it did. (I'm not pointing any fingers on this part, cause this one is my fault. I wasn't direct enough)

I was going to say the same thing like Basan about right and wrong, but I knew what Alpha was talking about, and I thought it wouldn't be necessary to point out right and wrong is in the eye of the beholder.

Alpha I don't understand from your color example why belief does matter. Sure you might not agree with their belief. It's not that their beliefs are wrong, people are entitled to think that maybe gays are wrong or w/e, but its when they persecute them and treat them unfairly that they do something wrong. Belief only matters when you make it matter and try to include it. If some people think the color blue is green it doesn't matter as long as they don't go around saying they are the ones that are right and everyone else is wrong, unless they can prove it. We all perceive the world differently in our minds.

No prob., Alpha(MC).
Edit add: Sorta expected it to eventually derail from that point onwards ("right to wrong scale"), as many other religious threads did 'round here, and just tried to prevent it to become a flame fest by clearing a few angles from an impartial PoV (read that could show both sides without being biased).

You're exactly correct. It only matter IF it's something like, killing another group of people, just because they don't see it your way. THEN it's bad.

What if, say, a certain religious group gained some government influence and tried repeatedly to force their own views on other people by abusing flaws in the system (read: stem-cell research, abortion, and gay marriage)? Is that bad, or should we condone it? What about people who believe in homeopathy and go off their regular medications for serious illnesses (read: cancer patients, etc.)? Should we condone that even though it's killing people in a passive manner? I don't think so.

I don't know for sure if u were agreeing or disagreeing with what we just said, but IF you were disagreeing...

Who said anything about over looking this? If a group of people are walking around, killing other people because they don't agree with them, and there's no way you can talk sense into them, then it's obviously ok to fight back in defence.

If you were agreeing, I'll take down this condescending post.

I was disagreeing with you. I'm saying that blind faith in something can be harmful to people, and that the government should regulate such things as homeopathy. They should also regulate themselves to keep the government secular, which they don't do. Which ends up being harmful to me, personally. George Bush isn't killing anyone (except Iraqis), but his beliefs defnitely have had a negative effect on my life.

I don't see how you disagree with what I'm saying. What you are saying starts out from a religious group gaining government influence. This is what I am against, because I said before religion or belief shouldn't matter. Blind faith can be harmful, but its the people that are forcing things on others. If you take action based on belief then it can become bad.

Well, get used to it being bad because just about every organized religion takes action based on its beliefs, whether it's trying to convert people or force people to obey their self-imposed, illogical rules. Honestly, the only religions I have encountered that are not predatory are Judaism and Bhuddism, and they have little influence on most of our lives for just that reason.

I don't know much on Judaism (encounters experience) but imho you can add Taoism, Gnosticism and Agnosticism to that bunch.

I never said I wasn't used to it being bad. And the fact that religion tries to influence people doesn't take away from what I'm saying. I'm just saying they should not do that, even if they do already.

I clearly remember saying there were x conditions, and I just used killing as one of them. So in other words...I think you're agreeing w/ me, just don't really notice it right now.

I would go with higher entity... or the scientific answer but for the rest of the unanswered stuff... I'd go with the higher entity. If you are out there god... forgive me...

The only way I will believe in god is if somebody shows me ***definite*** proof that god exists.

By the way, could somebody tell me how to make somebody that doesn't accept my beliefs to back off? He wants to kill me every day because I don't believe...

If I were to go to hell, I would be with my mom (she says she's going to hell), and all my friends (same).

Play them at their own game.

They say you're going to hell cause you don't agree with them? And they got no proof to back this up?

Ah, can you just smell the double standard?

Ok, now tell them THEY'RE going to hell because they don't agree with YOU. And you
too have no proof to back this up. Then finally ask them, how does you're own medicine taste?

If they say you're just making this up, do what many people have done. Say that you're prophet, and that god told you all this during last night's dream. And that you are out to create a new religion. Starting today. And that the reason why it seems like you're lieing, is because it's a test of faith.

Might work. I will try it. Thank you.

But you see, the reason why Christianity is still alive and going throughout all these years is because of prayer. We pray good prayers, they get answered. And it's really about experiencing his presence. That's what makes christianity stand out from all the other "failed" religions.