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Staredit Network -> Portal News -> Map Trigger Viewer
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-05-01 at 16:27:47
If someone wants to spend hours reproducing a map by copying another then let them, it's their waste of time.

If people want to cheat by learning all the "hidden workings" then let them, it's their waste of time.

In all reality, Red2Blue, with the resources out there it's just as easy to unhex a map as it is to recreate it with the help of this program.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Carlsagan43 on 2005-05-01 at 16:42:25
QUOTE
This makes it much harder to put passwords into your map. Protection programs are supposed to stop more then strealing.


Hehe yeah i tried doing that to mp3's map and it didnt work so your ok
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-01 at 17:45:57
i wonder were all of my mins went? lol

ADDITION:
WHO HERE LIKES IPODS!!!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-05-01 at 17:50:27
Don't spam here.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodle77(MM) on 2005-05-01 at 17:55:23
QUOTE(Yoshi da Sniper @ Apr 30 2005, 09:45 PM)
It does. I tested it.
[right][snapback]198729[/snapback][/right]

No, it doesnt. observe:
Unprotected version in starforge:
[attachmentid=8546]
Protected(uberate) version in Trigger Viewer:
[attachmentid=8547]
See. comments are all wrong
Hmm, thats sttrange, somehow i guess proedit and uberate messed up the comments
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MindArchon on 2005-05-01 at 19:04:00
QUOTE(Doodle77 @ May 1 2005, 02:55 PM)
No, it doesnt. observe:
Unprotected version in starforge:
[attachmentid=8546]
Protected(uberate) version in Trigger Viewer:
[attachmentid=8547]
See. comments are all wrong
Hmm, thats sttrange, somehow i guess proedit and uberate messed up the comments
[right][snapback]199213[/snapback][/right]


That would be Proedit. Proedit tends to mess up comments, and add in new ones randomly.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2005-05-01 at 19:05:48
QUOTE(Red2Blue @ May 1 2005, 01:59 PM)
This is not a good program...
The main reason is:
Maps that depend on the protection are now useless.

Some maps require protection to protect "passwords" that are in the map.
These maps have special elements that have required protection are now freely viewed by this program.

My map is now useless.  My rpg has a password system that you may input to "save" your character.  Now people can just use this program and get the strongest character in my map without playing the game.

Some maps, like golems, require the player to discover combinations on their own in a discovery process.  Now, thats all given because you can see everything that happens.

This program doesn't infringe on people's map rights.  Nor does it encourage stealing.  Its very much a learning program.

The only problem is that some map makers don't want the player's to learn about their map's interworkings.
In effect, it infringes on the rights of the map makers.
Not everyone wants their map triggers viewed.
Also adding:
If you really badly wanted to learn about a trigger, you would ask someone on this site. Obviously...

Its not right for someone to just go in and "steal" someone else's ideas.  The map maker could have taken weeks to create a certain system in their map.  Someone using this program could have easy access to their triggers and "steal" their ideas in a matter of minutes.

I do understand that Hex editors and the like can unprotect maps.  Its just this program allows easy access to them.  Hexing can be hasslesome at times.
Oh well, nothing else I can say can remove this program from the people.  Its already been spread...
[right][snapback]199036[/snapback][/right]


I feel the same exact way about this program. This program really hurts sc pw systems. (Not shitty pw systems like Xuru rpg, which has just a few hundred diff outcomes i believe. The ones with millions or even billions of diff outcomes that might be made this or next year)

This program doesn't fly with the alpha man.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kenoli on 2005-05-01 at 20:29:15
I wouldn't be surprised if someone made a anti-trigger-viewer thingy, because people are retarted that way.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-05-01 at 20:40:14
MindArchon is already working on it I bet. tongue.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by RexyRex on 2005-05-01 at 22:23:37
I'll be damned if I'm reading all these replies. First page only please. happy.gif

QUOTE(Yoshi da Sniper @ Apr 30 2005, 04:25 PM)
You cannot learn programming by just staring at code... you have to know what it does as well.
[right][snapback]198649[/snapback][/right]

Your so funny.

Anyways, I think the program is excellent, love the syntax highlighting.
Very nice job. 11/10. happy.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TERRAINFIGHTER on 2005-05-01 at 22:31:39
QUOTE(Kenoli @ May 1 2005, 07:29 PM)

I wouldn't be surprised if someone made a anti-trigger-viewer thingy, because people are retarted that way.
[right][snapback]199362[/snapback][/right]

how is that retarded if you have a map with a whole lot of codes hidden in the triggers and you don't want cheaters to steal the codes to use on multiplayer in your map?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Carlsagan43 on 2005-05-01 at 22:48:29
Um the reason why this program can go around protection is becuase the TRIG section cannot be messed with like VCOD and IVER
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-05-01 at 22:51:24
I'm actually thinking about incorperating an anti-Trigger Viewer patch with uBeR@TiOn but I'm not sure. I might make a poll about it somewhere else. It seems there are pretty good points both sides could argue...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MindArchon on 2005-05-01 at 22:53:13
QUOTE(LegacyWeapon @ May 1 2005, 07:51 PM)
I'm actually thinking about incorperating an anti-Trigger Viewer patch with uBeR@TiOn but I'm not sure. I might make a poll about it somewhere else. It seems there are pretty good points both sides could argue...
[right][snapback]199470[/snapback][/right]


I'll just have to get around that smile.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by RexyRex on 2005-05-01 at 23:12:32
Do you need to make uberation kill everything LW?
Jeez. dry.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-05-01 at 23:23:39
QUOTE(RexyRex @ May 1 2005, 11:12 PM)
Do you need to make uberation kill everything LW?
Jeez. dry.gif
[right][snapback]199487[/snapback][/right]
That's what I strive for tongue.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by .Coko[CK] on 2005-05-02 at 06:32:54
What about someone editing the code of this Trigger Viewer to include a save/edit feature?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kenoli on 2005-05-02 at 07:00:58
QUOTE
I'm actually thinking about incorperating an anti-Trigger Viewer patch with uBeR@TiOn but I'm not sure. I might make a poll about it somewhere else. It seems there are pretty good points both sides could argue...
I'd laugh at you. tongue.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by -BW-Map_God on 2005-05-02 at 14:20:17
It would be cool if Ubernation could kill it... or give the creator the option of making it viewable or not... so then only map makers that want to share their triggers with the world would have to tongue.gif .

EDIT: Just noticed RTSRhino's post...

QUOTE
I promise that once I get programmer access to the system I'll remove the corrupted files you've found, it's the least I can do in return for the time you have taken to find them.


Thanks, much apperciated, yea you did comment on one recently apparently... *sighs* if it had been earlier I woulda keep making the list. It was definetly over 1/3rd of the map files corrupted though. The .Zip ones would probably be the easiest ones to check/fix. Or else once ya'll are gonna try to clear out corrupted files just mention it in news and ask people to report'em.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Desperado on 2005-05-02 at 14:51:03
You guys give LegacyWeapon far too much credit for uberation. That's the kind of thing you write in about 10 minutes, and the fact that it's in Visual Basic only adds to the horror. Mainly I am a bit pissed because I told him how to solve the problem and I told him not to make that program and he did anyway.

Red2Blue is absolutely right, the issue he brought up about password systems is something that no one had the foresight to think about, and it's a big problem. Also Red2Blue is a jackass and I hate his guts. I am very passionate on the issue but the words I enjoy most are banned ;;
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2005-05-02 at 15:58:27
QUOTE
All maps that are opened cannot have their triggers extracted or copied!

I laughed out loud at this one. If I can VIEW the triggers, what stops me from copying them one by one in StarEdit?

I don't know what you're talking about "this can't be used to steal maps", because I consider the triggers that heart and soul of most UMS maps.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2005-05-02 at 16:18:17
QUOTE(Desperado @ May 2 2005, 02:51 PM)
You guys give LegacyWeapon far too much credit for uberation. That's the kind of thing you write in about 10 minutes, and the fact that it's in Visual Basic only adds to the horror. Mainly I am a bit pissed because I told him how to solve the problem and I told him not to make that program and he did anyway.
[right][snapback]199643[/snapback][/right]
You do know that I have added much more than what you have told me... You told me how to prevent it. I looked at it and compared protections with GUEdit and SF. Then I tested on how PROEdit crashes and then made uberation. It does not use your method at all.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by NeoNightmareX on 2005-05-02 at 16:18:22
QUOTE(Yoshi da Sniper @ Apr 30 2005, 03:53 PM)
OMG YOSHI! HOW COULD YOU BETRAY THE COMMUNITY AND ALLOW SUCH A STEALING PROGRAM ON YOUR SITE!!1oneo1!!!???
[right][snapback]198551[/snapback][/right]


subliminally messaging people about me huh yoshi, i dont blame you....

QUOTE(Yoshi da Sniper @ Apr 30 2005, 03:53 PM)
The best protection that never fails
[right][snapback]198551[/snapback][/right]


TROJAN MAN!

lol i had to say it, but seriously now, this seemED like a bad idea when i first started reading about it but when i found out that you cannot modify the maps at all, it became a really great program for upcoming map makers, nice job MindArchon
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Desperado on 2005-05-02 at 16:44:18
I've never used Uberation.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by scwizard on 2005-05-02 at 17:03:46
QUOTE(Kenoli @ May 1 2005, 08:29 PM)
I wouldn't be surprised if someone made a anti-trigger-viewer thingy, because people are retarted that way.[right][snapback]199362[/snapback][/right]
There is nothing retared about that. It would allow people who wanted to have codes in their map have those codes secret. It would be a specialized program though, making it so that most people wouldn't bother to dl it, unless they had codes in their map. I would think that most people wouldn't dl it or use in with their protected maps, but then...

QUOTE(Mini Moose 2707 @ May 2 2005, 03:58 PM)
I laughed out loud at this one. If I can VIEW the triggers, what stops me from copying them one by one in StarEdit?

I don't know what you're talking about "this can't be used to steal maps", because I consider the triggers that heart and soul of most UMS maps.[right][snapback]199656[/snapback][/right]
There will be people who will be afriad that people will copy their triggers one by one in order to steal their maps. People can be parinoid that way. Also, when someone genius and greedy discovers a new method that makes it so they can do cool things with triggers, and they want to keep it all to themselves, they might also use it. I don't support that becuase I think that the informantion would help everyone.

QUOTE(Desperado @ May 2 2005, 02:51 PM)
You guys give LegacyWeapon far too much credit for uberation. That's the kind of thing you write in about 10 minutes, and the fact that it's in Visual Basic only adds to the horror. Mainly I am a bit pissed because I told him how to solve the problem and I told him not to make that program and he did anyway.

Red2Blue is absolutely right, the issue he brought up about password systems is something that no one had the foresight to think about, and it's a big problem. Also Red2Blue is a jackass and I hate his guts. I am very passionate on the issue but the words I enjoy most are banned ;;[right][snapback]199643[/snapback][/right]
So here you say the Red2Blue is absolutly right, and that he has foresight. Ok nothing wrong with that, but you saying you hate his guts confuses people so you might want to complain about Red2Blue in a seperate post, perferably in the garbage forum.
About the passwording issue some more. It is possible to use methods of passwording that can fool the trigger viewer. Here is an example:
  • Conditions:
    CurrentPlayer brings exactly 5 civilians to password 1
    CurrentPlayer brings exactly 6 civilians to password 2
    CurrentPlayer brings exactly 3 civilians to password 5
    CurrentPlayer brings exactly 1 civilians to password 6
  • Actions: Display text "You got the password right"
  • Conditions: CurrentPlayer puts in any combination of civilains but the one above
  • Actions: End scenerio in defeat for CurrentPlayer
Someone viewing these triggers can figure out the password. But in this example:
  • Conditions:
    CurrentPlayer brings exactly 5 civilians to password
    CurrentPlayer brings exactly 6 civilians to password
    CurrentPlayer brings exactly 3 civilians to password
    CurrentPlayer brings exactly 1 civilians to password
  • Actions: Display text "You got the password right"
  • Conditions: CurrentPlayer puts in any combination of civilains but the one above
  • Actions: End scenerio in defeat for CurrentPlayer
Here each of the locations called password is a seperate location. In an unprotected map the person could change the names of the locations and figure out the passwords. But using the trigger viewer the veiwer can't change the names of the locations, so they would know the quantity of civilans they had to bring to each location, but not the locations to bring them to.

So, concluding this very long post, I fully support the trigger viewer, just like Yoshi does.
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