Report, edit, etc...Posted by noisuk on 2005-08-16 at 15:18:48
I never used this before, but I know Yoshi did this for the protection of others.
Also, what if Blizzard was to catch this Yoshi? Find SEN and notice that someone made the EUD's 'usable' again?
Also, what if Blizzard was to catch this Yoshi? Find SEN and notice that someone made the EUD's 'usable' again?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-16 at 15:20:26
QUOTE(Kusion @ Aug 16 2005, 03:18 PM)
I never used this before, but I know Yoshi did this for the protection of others.
Also, what if Blizzard was to catch this Yoshi? Find SEN and notice that someone made the EUD's 'usable' again?
[right][snapback]289737[/snapback][/right]
Also, what if Blizzard was to catch this Yoshi? Find SEN and notice that someone made the EUD's 'usable' again?
[right][snapback]289737[/snapback][/right]
well its probable we dont know for sure anymore if blizzard actualy visits this site
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yoshi da Sniper on 2005-08-16 at 15:20:38
QUOTE(Not_A_Virus.exe @ Aug 16 2005, 03:14 PM)
I think this might be an act of self preservation... There is not a single mention of the 1.13b patch on the website at all. It seems Blizzard got scared of what it may possibly do if they let it stay. I don't think they should go and hide EUDs away from everyone, and thats what it looks like Blizzard is doing. Maybe they don't want SC getting uberpopular again or something... and yes this sounds like im a conspiritist to me as well.
[right][snapback]289732[/snapback][/right]
Its not. Trust me, they did this for your best interest.[right][snapback]289732[/snapback][/right]
QUOTE(Kenoli @ Aug 16 2005, 03:15 PM)
And you know this... how?
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Blizzard never forsaw a vunerability which allowed viruses to be carried in maps. What makes you think Heimdal wont forsee a problem with the EUDenabler? Nothing is "impossible", which is my mistake in a news post so long ago.[right][snapback]289733[/snapback][/right]
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathknight on 2005-08-16 at 15:21:10
No, it hasn't been "proven", but I'll trust in Yoshi's word.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-16 at 15:21:15
QUOTE
I think this might be an act of self preservation... There is not a single mention of the 1.13b patch on the website at all. It seems Blizzard got scared of what it may possibly do if they let it stay. I don't think they should go and hide EUDs away from everyone, and thats what it looks like Blizzard is doing. Maybe they don't want SC getting uberpopular again or something... and yes this sounds like im a conspiritist to me as well.
If anything, EUDs would make SC uberpopular again. And Blizzard would want that, as we are their source of money besides WCIII, DII, WCII, and WoW. As such they would want to keep their profit marguin as high as they can so the parent company who owns Blizzard will be happy, and not disband Blizzard. But they must have their priorities straight, they must look out for the safety of their consumers. And viruses that we as the consumer gets from Battle.net or use of their programs would get them in alot of hot water both in press and in industry. If we get a virus because of our own actions (3rd party programs, hacks), that is our own fault, so Blizzard does not try to stop us if it does not affect anyone else in a poorly constructive way.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yoshi da Sniper on 2005-08-16 at 15:22:56
QUOTE(Kusion @ Aug 16 2005, 03:18 PM)
Also, what if Blizzard was to catch this Yoshi? Find SEN and notice that someone made the EUD's 'usable' again?
[right][snapback]289737[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]289737[/snapback][/right]
They are already aware that it was posted here, I'm pretty sure they visit here regularly anyway, expecially after EUDs were discovered. I was not personally the one who approved of the program, someone else did. I was gone over the weekend.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SuperToast on 2005-08-16 at 15:24:40
QUOTE(Deathknight @ Aug 16 2005, 02:21 PM)
No, it hasn't been "proven", but I'll trust in Yoshi's word.
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Since I myself don't have a specific map to show that it is vulnerable, I guess the only argument I have against that is that it is proven due to the fact that it has not been disproven. While that may be a cheap "logic" based argument, it still holds true especially in a case were computer exploitation and viruses are involved.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-16 at 15:24:56
QUOTE
I think this might be an act of self preservation... There is not a single mention of the 1.13b patch on the website at all. It seems Blizzard got scared of what it may possibly do if they let it stay. I don't think they should go and hide EUDs away from everyone, and thats what it looks like Blizzard is doing. Maybe they don't want SC getting uberpopular again or something... and yes this sounds like im a conspiritist to me as well.
Ok then, who gave the permission to approve it?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by noisuk on 2005-08-16 at 15:25:21
So what your saying in your first post is, EUD's can be a virus of some sort?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-16 at 15:25:59
QUOTE
Since I myself don't have a specific map to show that it is vulnerable, I guess the only argument I have against that is that it is proven due to the fact that it has not been disproven. While that may be a cheap "logic" based argument, it still holds true especially in a case were computer exploitation and viruses are involved.
Indeed.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-16 at 15:26:10
i just wana point something out to anyone who think EUD enabler should be hosted on sen......all this time for the past few days since patch 13b was relesed yoshi was most likely thinking about the dangers of EUDs so i think we should credit his desision and move on with life...........does any 1 else agree
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-16 at 15:27:29
QUOTE
So what your saying in your first post is, EUD's can be a virus of some sort?
Yes, and no. No is explained in the posts "Pacth 1.13b", and "EUDEnabler". Yes is also explained in those threads. The answers yes AND no are explained throughout here. So... it depends on the interpretation.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yoshi da Sniper on 2005-08-16 at 15:27:49
QUOTE(Tavrobel @ Aug 16 2005, 03:24 PM)
Ok then, who gave the permission to approve it?
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I don't know. Haven't checked the logs. Doesn't matter, they probaly meant well, but I'm the one who usually does all the real big decisions such as this.
QUOTE(Kusion @ Aug 16 2005, 03:25 PM)
So what your saying in your first post is, EUD's can be a virus of some sort?
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Yes.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-16 at 15:28:06
QUOTE
i just wana point something out to anyone who think EUD enabler should be hosted on sen......all this time for the past few days since patch 13b was relesed yoshi was most likely thinking about the dangers of EUDs so i think we should credit his desision and move on with life...........does any 1 else agree
I've been saying that since this thread came out.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-16 at 15:29:08
QUOTE(Tavrobel @ Aug 16 2005, 03:28 PM)
I've been saying that since this thread came out.
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i no but as people usualy skip to the last few posts i restated what u said
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-16 at 15:31:31
QUOTE
i no but as people usualy skip to the last few posts i restated what u said
Thanks for the reassurance and the reinforcement.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathknight on 2005-08-16 at 15:31:31
QUOTE
...........does any 1 else agree
I agree, but I also think it can be compromised if we get ahold of one of these "virus maps".
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SuperToast on 2005-08-16 at 15:32:28
QUOTE(The_Lead_Factor @ Aug 16 2005, 02:26 PM)
i just wana point something out to anyone who think EUD enabler should be hosted on sen......all this time for the past few days since patch 13b was relesed yoshi was most likely thinking about the dangers of EUDs so i think we should credit his desision and move on with life...........does any 1 else agree
[right][snapback]289753[/snapback][/right]
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I usually only agree with english typing, but after much carfeful meditating, I was able to come to the conclusion that I do more or less agree with you.
I agree that we should agree with yoshi's desicion to remove eudenabler, but I do not agree that we should give up on it so early. With enough work and patience I do believe it would be possible to make EUDs safe. It's simply a matter of very rigidly restricting possible memory areas. Blizzard did not take this course of action in their patch because they couldn't be bothered to spend the amount of time and resources required to do this.
Still, the other problem is that EUDs are not the only problem. There are other ways using extended units/players to modify memory. Blizzards patch seems a little short-sighted in this regard as that it only removed the possibility of modifying unit deaths. Something must be done to deal with this vulnerability, because unlike EUDs, things like EASs and the rest still have the possibility of being played on b.net.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-16 at 15:36:47
QUOTE
I agree, but I also think it can be compromised if we get ahold of one of these "virus maps".
I agree, that would be VERY bad for everyone.
ADDITION:
QUOTE
I usually only agree with english typing, but after much carfeful meditating, I was able to come to the conclusion that I do more or less agree with you.
I agree that we should agree with yoshi's desicion to remove eudenabler, but I do not agree that we should give up on it so early. With enough work and patience I do believe it would be possible to make EUDs safe. It's simply a matter of very rigidly restricting possible memory areas. Blizzard did not take this course of action in their patch because they couldn't be bothered to spend the amount of time and resources required to do this.
Still, the other problem is that EUDs are not the only problem. There are other ways using extended units/players to modify memory. Blizzards patch seems a little short-sighted in this regard as that it only removed the possibility of modifying unit deaths. Something must be done to deal with this vulnerability, because unlike EUDs, things like EASs and the rest still have the possibility of being played on b.net.
I agree that we should agree with yoshi's desicion to remove eudenabler, but I do not agree that we should give up on it so early. With enough work and patience I do believe it would be possible to make EUDs safe. It's simply a matter of very rigidly restricting possible memory areas. Blizzard did not take this course of action in their patch because they couldn't be bothered to spend the amount of time and resources required to do this.
Still, the other problem is that EUDs are not the only problem. There are other ways using extended units/players to modify memory. Blizzards patch seems a little short-sighted in this regard as that it only removed the possibility of modifying unit deaths. Something must be done to deal with this vulnerability, because unlike EUDs, things like EASs and the rest still have the possibility of being played on b.net.
Everything you say is true, except for the them not taking the effort about it. Heimdal was planning on doing this, and since he is one person, who is not a professional at this. Yet Blizzard is a team of many PROFESSIONALLY trained ADULTS who get PAID to do this, and they alaso work in shifts. If they could do anything, it would be them, but since they did not, it would be reasonable to think that both this is not something that is wholly preventable, and also that it is also in our best interests not to pursue these courses of action (EUD reasearch). Best not to kick a dead dog. Let the dead rest. Many stories support this, such as the monkey's paw analogy, although that also included being careful what we wish for. We should do that as well.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yoshi da Sniper on 2005-08-16 at 15:37:37
We don't have the right to take EUD matters into our own hands and tell people its safe when there was an actual known threat with them, and there still could be.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Lead_Factor on 2005-08-16 at 15:39:05
QUOTE(SuperToast @ Aug 16 2005, 03:32 PM)
I usually only agree with english typing, but after much carfeful meditating, I was able to come to the conclusion that I do more or less agree with you.
I agree that we should agree with yoshi's desicion to remove eudenabler, but I do not agree that we should give up on it so early. With enough work and patience I do believe it would be possible to make EUDs safe. It's simply a matter of very rigidly restricting possible memory areas. Blizzard did not take this course of action in their patch because they couldn't be bothered to spend the amount of time and resources required to do this.
Still, the other problem is that EUDs are not the only problem. There are other ways using extended units/players to modify memory. Blizzards patch seems a little short-sighted in this regard as that it only removed the possibility of modifying unit deaths. Something must be done to deal with this vulnerability, because unlike EUDs, things like EASs and the rest still have the possibility of being played on b.net.
[right][snapback]289763[/snapback][/right]
if any 1 ever does find a way to make EUDs safe(most unlikely imo) i think most of us wouldnt want to get involved in it for fear that this wholle thing will hapen again...well at least i wouldnt and i cant speak for every 1I agree that we should agree with yoshi's desicion to remove eudenabler, but I do not agree that we should give up on it so early. With enough work and patience I do believe it would be possible to make EUDs safe. It's simply a matter of very rigidly restricting possible memory areas. Blizzard did not take this course of action in their patch because they couldn't be bothered to spend the amount of time and resources required to do this.
Still, the other problem is that EUDs are not the only problem. There are other ways using extended units/players to modify memory. Blizzards patch seems a little short-sighted in this regard as that it only removed the possibility of modifying unit deaths. Something must be done to deal with this vulnerability, because unlike EUDs, things like EASs and the rest still have the possibility of being played on b.net.
[right][snapback]289763[/snapback][/right]
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-16 at 15:39:07
QUOTE
We don't have the right to take EUD matters into our own hands and tell people its safe when there was an actual known threat with them, and there still could be.
You're right, we don't. And we should also let things be as they are. Why bother ourselves with this?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by scwizard on 2005-08-16 at 15:40:30
My third attempt at making this post...
Stupid crazy dungeon coucilers.
Anyway:
This is why that the EUD enabler should be hosted dispite the risk.
Hacker: Lookie you can use EXE pointers to send virues through maps.
Heim: ohh, that's not good, I better update the program to fix it
Hacker: I found another exspoit, yay!
Heim: Better fix that one two.
It happens again and again, eventually heim wins, we have EUDs, good maps are made. Blizzard doesn't really care becuase people use third party programs such as PP at their own risk. And DK doesn't feel like he wasted the last few months of his life.
ADDITION:
Sure in the meantime some stupid people who don't play only play SEN approved maps get viruses, but it's worth it in the end I think.
Stupid crazy dungeon coucilers.
Anyway:
This is why that the EUD enabler should be hosted dispite the risk.
Hacker: Lookie you can use EXE pointers to send virues through maps.
Heim: ohh, that's not good, I better update the program to fix it
Hacker: I found another exspoit, yay!
Heim: Better fix that one two.
It happens again and again, eventually heim wins, we have EUDs, good maps are made. Blizzard doesn't really care becuase people use third party programs such as PP at their own risk. And DK doesn't feel like he wasted the last few months of his life.
ADDITION:
Sure in the meantime some stupid people who don't play only play SEN approved maps get viruses, but it's worth it in the end I think.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Tavrobel on 2005-08-16 at 15:40:35
QUOTE
if any 1 ever does find a way to make EUDs safe(most unlikely imo) i think most of us wouldnt want to get involved in it for fear that this wholle thing will hapen again...well at least i wouldnt and i cant speak for every 1
He speaks the truth. Although, people would also not want to be involved becuase it is a dead topic in research. Most people consider EUDs dead at patch 1.13b, and that is the way it should be.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Scheisse on 2005-08-16 at 15:40:37
Where's the special thanks to Scheisse? 
I am the one that told you about this lol.
I am the one that told you about this lol.