Staredit Network

Staredit Network -> Serious Discussion -> Is United States a really free country?

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-20 at 17:03:21

One thing I do like about Communism is job security. You are pretty much given a job by the government I heard. correct?

But besides that I like Capitalism better. I like having the right to make as much money as I can.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Arbitrary on 2006-03-20 at 17:05:35

QUOTE(Jet_Blast54 @ Mar 19 2006, 11:20 PM)

That would make you a sheep of the cynics.
[right][snapback]449073[/snapback][/right]

I'm trying really hard to find the logic here, but I'm just not seeing it. How does being a cynic make me a sheep? Nonconformity only becomes conformity when you let someone else tell you how.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zombie on 2006-03-20 at 17:28:18

America, it is free, but it also isn’t. I mean sure Americans have rights but most of them you cant actually do. I read something about a guy who collected guys and got them taken away from the government because he didn’t have some license. Isn’t there something about that in the constitution that allows people to bare arms? Just like freedom of speech for example, if I went out, walked up to a cop and said fark you, would I get arrested? Yes I would. How do I know that? A cop himself said that you would. It’s true that America is freer than most countries out there. But like euros sig says

“When they put bombs in cars and kill people, they're uncivilized killers. When we put bombs on missiles and kill people, we're upholding civilized values. When they kill, they're terrorists. When we kill, we're striking against terror.”

Sadly that’s the truth. Let’s put this into our minds, if someone said ‘AMERICA SUCKS IT’S THE WORSE COUNTRY” Would you agree? Hell no, There are a lot of places out there that’s a lot worse than America. Ever been to East Germany?

Anyway, we should go with the fact that America is free but it also isn’t.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kyuubi. on 2006-03-20 at 19:06:33

i agree with you america is free but it isn't also...they make the laws in the constitution very complex and complicated...some laws interact with each other that makes it more complicated between the state laws and federal laws. killing a person is a state law...but killing someone that works with the post office is considered a federal crime...i'm only stating some things that the government comes up with and not people wouldn't do... there are other things like if you are accused of a crime or something or get into a car accident there are things you must do...

yea the first law for freedom of speech...but it doesn't support everything you say, such as the libel,slander,curse words, and the speech that presents a clear and present danger...like saying theres someone carrying a bomb on board an airplane can get you in trouble after the 9/11 incident even if it is a joke, not really a freedom of speech is it? i'm not trying make this more complicated and state opinions or anything...i'm not complaining what the united states is but want to see what you guys think of the laws they make

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-20 at 19:12:27

QUOTE(SlyShadow @ Mar 20 2006, 04:06 PM)

Well about the joking about bombs etc...

I remember when I was 9 (before 9/11) and my family went through air port security and we got on the plane and as a joke I said "haha luckly they didn't find my gun" and then I got a big lecture about how Im not even suppose to joke about that on an air plane or around security becuase they will take me seriously even as a kid.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-21 at 16:20:06

We have limited freedom of speech. Now, for even saying anything about bombs, you can be held for questioning.

ALSO FOR CHRIS:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060321/ap_on_.../iraq_wmd_tapes
All your WMD arguements have been obliterated. All your bases are belong to us!

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathawk on 2006-03-21 at 17:20:42

Because they want to ensure the safety of the people.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kyuubi. on 2006-03-21 at 20:04:19

QUOTE(Deathawk @ Mar 21 2006, 02:20 PM)

Because they want to ensure the safety of the people.
[right][snapback]449985[/snapback][/right]

it might sound ok...but limiting part of the freedom of speech for safety seems kind of unjustified...that's like a parent telling their kid to stop jumping on the bed.
when there is danger they limit the freedom to do something, i can pretty much understand that

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2006-03-21 at 20:09:36

That's true.

Another thing we also have to consider, is on who is saying it. If you give the mother an inch, she won't take a mile. But if you give greedy politicians an inch... well you can decide that one for yourself.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-21 at 21:02:01

QUOTE(Euro @ Mar 21 2006, 01:19 PM)

This is all I need

QUOTE

"The factories will remain in our brains,"

He made and used them once, he would have made and used them again.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Aikanaro on 2006-03-21 at 21:03:45

QUOTE(TheDaddy0420 @ Mar 21 2006, 09:01 PM)

This is all I need
He made and used them once, he would have made and used them again.
[right][snapback]450282[/snapback][/right]

They were never used.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-03-21 at 21:12:46

Is the United States really a free country? Facts point to: No.

Look at The Patriot Act. It basically takes your Bill Of Rights (The first 10 Amendments of the Constitution) and throws them out the door.

QUOTE(Wikipedia)

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is a part of the United States Bill of Rights. Textually, it prevents the U.S. Congress from infringing on six rights. It forbids laws that:

* Establish a state religion or prefer certain religion (the "Establishment Clause");
* Prohibit the free exercise of religion (the "Free Exercise Clause");
* Infringe the freedom of speech;
* Infringe the freedom of the press;
* Limit the right to assemble peaceably;
* Limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The First Amendment only explicitly disallows any of the rights from being abridged by Congress. Over time, however, the courts held that this extends to the executive and judicial branches. The Supreme Court has held that the Fourteenth Amendment extends the limitations of the First Amendment to actions by the states.

I bolded the ones that The Patriot Act breaks.

The "Limit the right to assemble peaceably" has been broken way before The Patriot Act. Ever heard of the RAVE Act? (Reduce Americans' Vunerability to Ecstacy Act) That banned Raves. Raves are a way to assemble peacefully. Anyways, more about The Patriot Act and how it infringes our rights.

QUOTE(Wikipedia)

Amendment IV (the Fourth Amendment) of the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. It was a response to the controversial writs of assistance (a type of general search warrant) which were a significant factor behind the American Revolution.

The Patriot Act gives them the right to come into your home without a warrent, and search through anything and everything they want to. (Infringement of Amendment #4)

QUOTE(Wikipedia)

Amendment V (the Fifth Amendment) of the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, is related to legal procedure. Its guarantees stem from English common law. For instance, grand juries and the phrase "due process" both trace their origin to common law.

Hmm.. Read even more:

QUOTE(Wikipedia)

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Anyone with logic (or common sense) would see that this amendment gives us the right to trial. The Patriot Act gives the government to throw you in prison without a trial. On assumptions, I should say. "He talks about terrorism! Throw him in prison, he is a terrorist!"

QUOTE(Wikipedia)

Amendment VI (the Sixth Amendment) of the United States Constitution codifies rights related to criminal prosecutions in federal courts. The Supreme Court has ruled that these rights are so fundamental and important that they are protected in state courts by the Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

The Patriot Act allows them to make trials looooooooooong. If I am not mistakened, Saddam's trial STILL is not over. Which breaks this amendment (Some may argue that he is not an American citizen so it doesn't apply to him, but isn't the constitution for EVERYONE that is IN america, regardless of ethnicity, background or race?) because it's not speedy.

QUOTE(Wikipedia)

Amendment IX (the Ninth Amendment) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, states:

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

This basically says proves The Patriot Act is illegal. It states that it is ILLEGAL to change laws made by the constitution, that will infringe the rights already deemed by the constitution. What does The Patriot Act do? Infringe rights.

QUOTE(Wikipedia)

Amendment X (the Tenth Amendment) of the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791. It states:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The Amendment, which makes explicit the idea that the federal government is limited only to the powers it is granted in the Constitution, is generally recognized to be a truism. In United States v. Sprague (1931) the Supreme Court noted that the amendment "added nothing to the [Constitution] as originally ratified". From time to time states and local governments have attempted to assert exemption from various federal regulations, especially in the areas of labor and environmental controls, using the Tenth Amendment as a basis for their claim.

Another oft-repeated quote, from United States v. Darby, 312 U.S. 100, 124 (1941), states:

The amendment states but a truism that all is retained which has not been surrendered. There is nothing in the history of its adoption to suggest that it was more than declaratory of the relationship between the national and state governments as it had been established by the Constitution before the amendment or that its purpose was other than to allay fears that the new national government might seek to exercise powers not granted, and that the states might not be able to exercise fully their reserved powers.

This basically says it's illegal for the Federal Level of government to change any laws made by the State Level, or the City Level. What laws or acts have they imposed to change this? No Child Left Behind

The State's had their own regulations for passing High School. And now, the government steps in and forces them to coperate or their funding get's cut? Total infringement.

I hope I have pointed out that we are no longer a free country. Don't skip over this. Actually read it, and quit being ignorant of the truth (Pointed towards Chris because he is blinded) and learn that your country has pulled the wool over your eyes for a loooooooong time.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Stilth on 2006-03-22 at 01:35:19

so, do any of you have evidence in your day to day lives about not being free? is it so agonizing that you have the right to go outside and just chill? =/

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-03-22 at 12:09:17

Just look at today's world. You will see that The Patriot Act is unconstitutional.

Don't make me go to SSWH and get the explaination Iso said -_-

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zombie on 2006-03-22 at 14:31:29

QUOTE(Stilth @ Mar 21 2006, 11:34 PM)

so, do any of you have evidence in your day to day lives about not being free? is it so agonizing that you have the right to go outside and just chill? =/
[right][snapback]450491[/snapback][/right]

Are you serious? Please tell me you’re not serious. Look at all the stuff he is already proven, How old are you? How long have you lived in the USA? I’ve been in the USA for about… 1 year and I already think it’s not totally free. I mean think about it for a minute. Sure you have some rights but not as much as we did before.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kyuubi. on 2006-03-22 at 15:59:46

from what i remember from my ap government class, the united states wasn't supposed to start out as a democratic country as in let people decide for what they want,where majority vote was the key...they had slaves and had to put laws on their citizens because they tough they were wild animals and untamed. they weren't allowed to vote and stuff like that...

even now today we are allowed to vote who we want to run the country it doesn't really matter if it is majority because congress can override majority vote(like in the gore vs bush election in 2000)...
the vote ballot was messed up in florida and congress appointed bush to president.

but the laws are very complex...different laws the intercross with each other, something like a state law that permits you a right to do something while another law forbids it

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Whisper_Blade on 2006-03-22 at 18:42:20

Of course it was. It isn't really a free country now, though. As they take away more and more of our rights, more and more people come to realize what a pile of censored we live in. What a pitiful excuse for a country.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-24 at 18:48:27

The fore fathers did not attempt to create a democracy. They wanted a Republic.

Hence where we get Democratic Republic.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-03-24 at 19:16:02

Well that United States may not be a completey free country, but it is the one of the most free countries in the world. It might even be the most free. But there are a lot of places overlooked that have some problems.

But then again, to some people, like the people in Mexico, think that the United States is worth dieing overso they risk their lives just to see if they can make it here, not even sure they will even get here!

I think that if you start your life out fairly well and dont get caught up in some bad acts, you sould be fine. Then again if you get into trouble and kil people or do drugs. You shouldn't have such a fun time over here.

In my opinion it is a free country, but it could always get better!

7-7

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodle77(MM) on 2006-03-24 at 19:18:03

No, unless we lived in complete anarchy we are not truly free.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-03-24 at 22:10:13

QUOTE(7-7 @ Mar 24 2006, 05:15 PM)

Then again if you get into trouble and kil people or do drugs. You shouldn't have such a fun time over here.
In my opinion it is a free country, but it could always get better!
7-7
[right][snapback]452166[/snapback][/right]

Doing drugs doesn't cause you to not have fun.. Propaganda has you enveloped in it.

And you are entitled to your opinion

But just look at what The Patriot Act does before you try to say that, please?

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-29 at 20:17:43

QUOTE(Zombie @ Mar 22 2006, 11:31 AM)

I think he ment non-debating real life. Like actual things like you were stopped going to the grocery store or something like that.

QUOTE(Kellimus)

I do believe its Iraqis judging Saddam and not the American government.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kellodood on 2006-03-29 at 20:25:50

That may be true, but we detained him for a very long time. Which is against the constitution. And if I am not mistakened, does the constitution not garuntee rights for EVERYONE within the United States? Not just it's residents??

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-29 at 20:27:20

QUOTE(Kellimus @ Mar 29 2006, 05:25 PM)

Well the war was still going on, so he could be labeled a POW.

Hes also not in America, hes in Iraq.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kyuubi. on 2006-03-30 at 15:47:45

well the more laws they make the more crimes will arise i think. you can never stop it...if they ban medicinal drugs to help heal yourself, there would be people that will try to smuggle them for huge cash don't you think?

in a way the laws they make are shooting themselves in the foot, but that applies to what we need. stuff like that would only help in medicinal purposes, but people will get addicted and pretty much go down the wrong road...

back on the topic, the laws they make sometimes put huge pressure on everyone.
from the no child left behind act, the patriot act, and now a thread i've read that says restricting immigration. thats just in my opinion though.

Next Page (3)