Report, edit, etc...Posted by Hofodomo on 2006-11-27 at 23:54:38
YES! In America! And I can't just tell you how many people around me DO give a damn about that letter they get on a report card.
And what culture? ANY culture...here in suburbia, it doesn't matter who you are. There are slackers and delinquents, and there are those who work hard, and those who just want that grade.
But you tell me: spell it out for me. Who? Because I honestly don't know who carries the "unerring stereotype of intelligence and success in the business and scientific world". My guess: people that both worked hard and understood that education was so much more than what is written on a report card. It's only a guess.
But so what one gets nothing but perfect scores in school and on tests? Will that grant that person a better understanding of things around him/her? Or does that only show one knows how to study out of a book? I personally agree with the latter.
DT, you sound intelligent, and you seem to care about what you learn. And I guarantee you, I'm the same. But judging from the very first post, it seems like some of the people around you don't. I say a part of that problem is the 'mandatory curriculum' and testing that has to be done.
And what culture? ANY culture...here in suburbia, it doesn't matter who you are. There are slackers and delinquents, and there are those who work hard, and those who just want that grade.
But you tell me: spell it out for me. Who? Because I honestly don't know who carries the "unerring stereotype of intelligence and success in the business and scientific world". My guess: people that both worked hard and understood that education was so much more than what is written on a report card. It's only a guess.
But so what one gets nothing but perfect scores in school and on tests? Will that grant that person a better understanding of things around him/her? Or does that only show one knows how to study out of a book? I personally agree with the latter.
DT, you sound intelligent, and you seem to care about what you learn. And I guarantee you, I'm the same. But judging from the very first post, it seems like some of the people around you don't. I say a part of that problem is the 'mandatory curriculum' and testing that has to be done.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-11-28 at 00:54:40
QUOTE(Hofodomo @ Nov 27 2006, 08:54 PM)
But so what one gets nothing but perfect scores in school and on tests? Will that grant that person a better understanding of things around him/her? Or does that only show one knows how to study out of a book? I personally agree with the latter.
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Generally, it does both. From firsthand and secondhand experience.
QUOTE
And what culture? ANY culture...here in suburbia, it doesn't matter who you are. There are slackers and delinquents, and there are those who work hard, and those who just want that grade.
Culture. Race. Country. You kind of missed my point here.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lithium on 2006-11-28 at 06:18:36
So let me summarize. Failure of the Democratic system is because of failure in education? Well, even some professors prefer not to vote. What do you say to that?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Centreri on 2006-11-28 at 16:57:51
DTBK, I generally agree with you, but some classes do, indeed, have very hard tests. My history class is one example; she can ask any detail she desires, from the textbook, notes or handouts, except for dates. I reread everything before the test, study 4-5 hours for that test on my way to school and in school, but guess what? The highest grade I was able to achieve is an 83% (actually, my grades are increasing; starting with my first equivalent of a D to a B). And, seriously, how will knowing the history of ancient China and India help me? Even if it will, I can look up whatever I need, and knowing about exactly what dynasty built the great wall of China won't help. Or the qualities of its ruler. Or what's inside the walls.
Then, there are some fantastic teachers who simply do not give enough information about the test beforehand or make it difficult to study. All in all, to get straight A's in school as well as comply to my parents rules I'll have about.... no free time.
I don't really care enough to vote and I doubt I will, and more out of laziness and hopelessness then out of stupidity. One vote won't change anything.
I do have a decent teacher who seems to disagree with everything you say (indirectly); she always whines about how we shouldn't care about our grades. Annoying.
Then, there are some fantastic teachers who simply do not give enough information about the test beforehand or make it difficult to study. All in all, to get straight A's in school as well as comply to my parents rules I'll have about.... no free time.
I don't really care enough to vote and I doubt I will, and more out of laziness and hopelessness then out of stupidity. One vote won't change anything.
I do have a decent teacher who seems to disagree with everything you say (indirectly); she always whines about how we shouldn't care about our grades. Annoying.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-11-28 at 17:06:01
QUOTE(Centreri @ Nov 29 2006, 12:57 AM)
One vote won't change anything.
If everyone who can vote (and are not morons) will think like that the world will come to an end.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lithium on 2006-11-28 at 18:10:32
Actually, thats the idea "one vote won't change anything" logic is on many people. It will be a million votes if you change all those logic into "one vote will matter".
Oh and. It would really HELP YOUR TEST if you actually listened and taken down notes while in class. That always worked for me and i didnt even have to study to get an A on the tests.
Oh and. It would really HELP YOUR TEST if you actually listened and taken down notes while in class. That always worked for me and i didnt even have to study to get an A on the tests.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Centreri on 2006-11-28 at 18:12:31
omgugeniusiluvunowlol. I do 
. And it's true that one vote won't change anything. If I do it, no one will do it. If I don't do it, no one will do it.
. And it's true that one vote won't change anything. If I do it, no one will do it. If I don't do it, no one will do it.Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-11-28 at 18:42:22
QUOTE(Centreri @ Nov 28 2006, 01:57 PM)
DTBK, I generally agree with you, but some classes do, indeed, have very hard tests. My history class is one example; she can ask any detail she desires, from the textbook, notes or handouts, except for dates. I reread everything before the test, study 4-5 hours for that test on my way to school and in school, but guess what? The highest grade I was able to achieve is an 83% (actually, my grades are increasing; starting with my first equivalent of a D to a B). And, seriously, how will knowing the history of ancient China and India help me? Even if it will, I can look up whatever I need, and knowing about exactly what dynasty built the great wall of China won't help. Or the qualities of its ruler. Or what's inside the walls.
Then, there are some fantastic teachers who simply do not give enough information about the test beforehand or make it difficult to study. All in all, to get straight A's in school as well as comply to my parents rules I'll have about.... no free time.
I don't really care enough to vote and I doubt I will, and more out of laziness and hopelessness then out of stupidity. One vote won't change anything.
I do have a decent teacher who seems to disagree with everything you say (indirectly); she always whines about how we shouldn't care about our grades. Annoying.
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Then, there are some fantastic teachers who simply do not give enough information about the test beforehand or make it difficult to study. All in all, to get straight A's in school as well as comply to my parents rules I'll have about.... no free time.
I don't really care enough to vote and I doubt I will, and more out of laziness and hopelessness then out of stupidity. One vote won't change anything.
I do have a decent teacher who seems to disagree with everything you say (indirectly); she always whines about how we shouldn't care about our grades. Annoying.
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Yes, it's a hard class. How does it help? For starters, if you never need the knowledge of history in the future, which you probably should, and bare minimum you have greatly improved your study skills and your memory by being able to adequately prepare for the tests.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Centreri on 2006-11-28 at 18:52:25
Tell me one realistic instance where I'd need to know the stuff they teach. I understand phrases like 'History repeats itself', but I really doubt I'll be a historian or in a position to stop history from repeating itself if it does. And the bare minimum.. My study skills haven't really improved, or if they had and I'm deluding myself, then.. how does that improve my intelligence again? I do all other subjects well, so all it does is help learn and memorize things that will be useless in the future if I do happen to remember them in 10 years.
There's too many variables, such as teacher preference and such, determining your grade on a test.
There's too many variables, such as teacher preference and such, determining your grade on a test.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-11-28 at 19:20:09
QUOTE(Jammed @ Nov 28 2006, 06:06 PM)
If everyone who can vote (and are not morons) will think like that the world will come to an end.
Really? According to history, the world existed for quite some time without any form of democracy, or organized government for that matter.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by green_meklar on 2006-11-28 at 19:46:14
QUOTE
So let me summarize. Failure of the Democratic system is because of failure in education? Well, even some professors prefer not to vote. What do you say to that?
What I say to that is, as I believe I've said before in this thread, lack of people voting has absolutely no bearing on the failure of representative democracy. Because so long as the proportions stay the same, the same leaders get elected, and the end result is the same. The failure lies in people voting for bad leaders, rather than people not voting at all.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Hofodomo on 2006-11-28 at 20:39:15
QUOTE
And yet what culture carries an unerring stereotype of intelligence and success in the business and scientific world? Riddle me that.
Yes, you're right, I have no clue why you made any reference to culture in that.
This thread basically diverged into two rather different discussions...
Well, at our level, for most cases, a few votes won't do jack. Unless you we're Dick Cheney, and the Senate was split right down the middle...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Desperado on 2006-12-13 at 02:37:04
America is a democratic republic, not a democracy. The founding fathers identified the problem of "the people" and designed the system intentionally to marginalize their effect.
People are always thinking that the world is going to Hell in a hand basket; that things are worse today than they ever were before. Newsflash: the world did not magically become a worse place to live the moment you achieved independent thought. It has always been this bad. People were always stupid. Presidents always sucked. Disease. War. Poverty. None of these are new events. It's egotistical to think otherwise.
Learn humility.
People are always thinking that the world is going to Hell in a hand basket; that things are worse today than they ever were before. Newsflash: the world did not magically become a worse place to live the moment you achieved independent thought. It has always been this bad. People were always stupid. Presidents always sucked. Disease. War. Poverty. None of these are new events. It's egotistical to think otherwise.
Learn humility.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lithium on 2006-12-13 at 05:45:24
I actually believe we live in a better world than years back when poverty, starvation, and disease were common. And no drugs to help you out in diseases.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by green_meklar on 2006-12-13 at 11:29:55
QUOTE
People are always thinking that the world is going to Hell in a hand basket; that things are worse today than they ever were before. Newsflash: the world did not magically become a worse place to live the moment you achieved independent thought. It has always been this bad. People were always stupid. Presidents always sucked. Disease. War. Poverty. None of these are new events.
Of course. The issue isn't that we now have them, the issue is that we haven't yet gotten rid of them. A government is supposed to solve problems, not merely prevent new problems from arising.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2006-12-13 at 18:17:23
I see where you are coming from DT, however you must realize that most middle-schoolers and even lowerclassmen of highschool don't really get interested in such things as early as you have. In seventh grade I didn't think like I do now just 4 years later. I went from an ignorant, happy-go-lucky kid to an inspired, intelligent scholar over the course of probably 2 years.
However, I do believe that if they don't come around by 9th or tenth grade then they'll probably stay pretty ignorant through thier lives.
I blame media, government and schools. People aren't daring enough to be different. I went to a very liberal and unorthodox school and I find myself being taught by other intellectuals and even debating with friends after school on things we learn.
Now that I think more about it, schools need to change. We need more, with more experienced teachers, smaller class sizes. With smaller classes comes more attention and more relevant activity.
However, I do believe that if they don't come around by 9th or tenth grade then they'll probably stay pretty ignorant through thier lives.
I blame media, government and schools. People aren't daring enough to be different. I went to a very liberal and unorthodox school and I find myself being taught by other intellectuals and even debating with friends after school on things we learn.
Now that I think more about it, schools need to change. We need more, with more experienced teachers, smaller class sizes. With smaller classes comes more attention and more relevant activity.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-12-13 at 23:15:10
What we really need is a society and culture that better fosters learning.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-12-14 at 10:27:22
I'd say start over. Too bad it's rather difficult to found new countries these days.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-12-14 at 13:13:22
QUOTE(DT_Battlekruser @ Dec 14 2006, 07:15 AM)
What we really need is a society and culture that better fosters learning.
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To get people interested in learning, you must give them something to compare. Like the uneducated, unhappy poor and the educated and happy rich.
Or mass propaganda and brainwashing.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2006-12-14 at 16:18:01
QUOTE(Mini Moose 2707 @ Dec 14 2006, 11:27 AM)
I'd say start over. Too bad it's rather difficult to found new countries these days.
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SECESSION!![right][snapback]603581[/snapback][/right]
LETS START ANOTHER CIVIL WAR IF WE MUST!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Desperado on 2006-12-14 at 18:43:32
QUOTE
What we really need is a society and culture that better fosters learning.
Ignorance is bliss. I think you'd have a hard time forging a successful, modern society that denies people happiness.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by green_meklar on 2006-12-14 at 19:44:47
QUOTE
Ignorance is bliss.
I pity the fools who really, sincerely believe that.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-12-14 at 21:49:54
It's true. If you are ignorant you never see the impending doom until it hits you, in which case you are not usually in a state to feel.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Rantent on 2006-12-14 at 23:13:19
Well most people consider news to be information. And the news is always bad. Because bad news sells.
If we actually look around, and perform an analysis for ourselves, our lives are not that bad. Of course nobody listens to your analysis of life if you say it is good though, so they can't credit you for being truly factual.
I suppose one example is how nobody trusts the government, and feels that whenever they publish something that shows them in a good light, the first thing people jump to is conspiracy theories. (Which often lead to results. Although I won't argue whether results indicate whether there was anything there to begin with.)
If we actually look around, and perform an analysis for ourselves, our lives are not that bad. Of course nobody listens to your analysis of life if you say it is good though, so they can't credit you for being truly factual.
I suppose one example is how nobody trusts the government, and feels that whenever they publish something that shows them in a good light, the first thing people jump to is conspiracy theories. (Which often lead to results. Although I won't argue whether results indicate whether there was anything there to begin with.)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Desperado on 2006-12-15 at 15:35:54
QUOTE
I pity the fools who really, sincerely believe that.
Don't think for one second that I enjoy the truth of my statement, but do not deny it's veracity. Why do you think the most intellectual among us, such as DTBK, are pained by the horrors of the world whereas on the opposite side of the spectrum you Syphon enjoying life to the fullest?