Staredit Network

It may seem that things aren't getting any better, but consider that if the United States is still preventing them from getting worse, there's a reason to stay.

We aren't preventing things from getting worse, bombs are going off weekly, the infrastructure is being further destroyed and people are dieing.

Lots of people were dying in Iraq before the United States went in. Iraqi deaths haven't been news since at least 15 years ago now, probably more.

Reason to stay? Leave with honor? My friend's dad feels like he's 20 again.

15 years ago we were in the middle east.

The situation in Iraq is so tragic, that leaving Iraq or not is a question of choosing the lesser of two evils.

Let's go back.

I'd like to key in on a few specific things since this thread is burgeoning still.

Aristocracy: This is one of the major problems in america. Do you think the heads of corporations, or even the president of the united states are smarter or more hard working than you? These people, all too often, are given their positions because of where they were born. The corruptions stems from the relationships between members of the aristocracy. My weapons company wants a government contract, you give it to me, you get a cushy job on my brother's corporate board.

The tax rates on the rich do not matter when the average ceo makes hundreds of times what his average worker makes. Often that ceo simply hires an accountant and a lawyer to get him all the write-offs he needs.

We are not talking about entrepeneurs, nor are we talking about the upper-middle class. These people are the super-rich, and they continue to exploit the system.


The history of the American military: Over the last fifty years the united states has been involved in dozens of wars. None with a world power, but all with implications on the stage of the world. These wars have been with small countries that defied the united states, toward the political ends of the united states. Osama bin laden was once an ally of the united states, and Saddam Hussein could have been an ally in a heartbeat if it had served the country's imperialist interests.


Corruption: Though this has been touched on, I believe it deserves some emphasis since some people in this thread keep clamoring to shout "give me some figures to prove the corruption."

Ever heard of Jack Abrahmov? Enron? WorldCom? The rampant lobbying, the corruption blatantly evident was one of the major factors in the democrats' victory. That said the democrats are also known for their collusion. This is a deep-seated problem that needs a drastic solution.

There are videos of meetings in which CEOs are shown talking about the prospects of iraqi oil. You are ignoring an obvious truth if you say the war in iraq wasn't the military industrial complex meets the oil industry half way.


If you need proof that president bush's sudden environmentalism is anything more than posturing for votes, consider that the united states has fuel efficency and emissions standards that are less stringent than other developed countries including China, Japan, and all of Europe. This simply allows american car companies to fall further behind overseas competition, and makes them unable to sell their cars in other countries. The electric car was actually in production in the nineties, yet it summarily disappeared, was pulled from the market by large car manufacturers despite demand because of the money to be made from oil.

Consider the infrastructure for the distribution of the alternative fuels such as electricity (power grids) and ethanol/biodiesel (gas stations) exists currently, while the infrastructure for the cars the president favors most (hydrogen fuel cells) does not exist, whatsoever.

Well said hazel. I agree with all you said.

Luckily I don't call myself a democrat any more than I would call myself a republican. Though the way things are now I prefer the democrats over repubs. Go green party!

Hah, yeah I consider myself a civil/fiscal libertarian with an environmental tinge, but since we don't have a lib party in Illinois I voted straight ticket green party.

I can't vote yet. One more year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kyoto_P...on_map_2005.png
"Participation in the Kyoto Protocol, where dark green indicates countries that have signed and ratified the treaty and yellow indicates states that have signed and hope to ratify the treaty. Australia and the United States have signed the treaty but refuse to ratify it."
Lmao, way to go US and Australia. I think this alone shows how Bush isn't truly thinking of an alternative source as much as we should because he would have ratified it otherwise.

I mean ever since then, not just then and now and not inbetween. Many people were dying through the late 90s due to Saddam Hussein's economic and social policies.

We need to make our own country better, then worry about the others.

While this is true, it's not quite as simple as it sounds because the United States is affected in many ways by all sorts of events elsewhere in the world. At any rate it does not invalidate the basic idea that we need to start solving our problems rather than perpetuating them.