Staredit Network

Ohh, yeah, and for a little bit, we were actually on topic: Starcraft patch 1.13b. Only for a little while. Maybe... five minutes?
And there was also how to prove someone wrong, how opinions are or are not wrong, the lisence to use Starcraft, and repatching, Chinese people, Tsunamis, and Americans.

...thats not proven, i personally think its impossible, as EUD Triggers Are Just Triggers That Use The Memory Going Into A Certain Map, I View Them Like A READ-ONLY File.

I just found time to read through this thread, and I think its disgusting.

In the first few pages that were on topic, I saw many people say that Blizz should unpatch EUD triggers, or DK should make more methods, and stuff like that.

Listen, Blizzard made SC. They own SC, and they decide what happens to SC. If DK continues working on his methods, SC will continue patching and maybe eventually take real action whatever that may be. Blizzard doesnt want SC to change to something else, its not that "they dont want SC turning into WC3 because they will lose money" its because they dont want its weaknesses exploited and having its users crashed.

I think many of you fail to realize that you can make a perfectly fine map without these crazy EUD's you have just been blinded because you have seen them and dont want to go back. Sure you dont have terran units with shields, but that doesnt mean you cant make a fun game. You guys loved UMS before these and now you all think that blizzard must die and that you should boycott SC.

SC is blizzards game, they decide whats best. They knew more than we did about these triggers and obviously didnt like them. Why would they bother patching SC if they didnt care for it?

Actually, mine was on topic, replace ate with patched, and burger with new triggers, and its perfectly on topic.

Bliz should release the information on why they patched the triggers.... Even though many of the reasons were touched upon in the past 28 pages.

But you did not say that we should have replaced the words when you posted the topic, so therefore, it is not on topic. No offense.



I would like to think so. But if you had read the last couple of pages of arguments. it would go to say that nothing is impossible. I would like to believe you. I honestly do.



You're absolutely right. I'm not so sure about the apalling part. People were probably upset, ut if many of them still feel as though Starcraft should be boycotted, then you are one hundred percent right. And if they did not care, then it was becuase they like ruining their fans lives who supply them with money and hardcore fanaticism. (Last sentence is Sarcasm; chock full of it, sarcasm about the caring part, not the hardlined fanaticism)

ADDITION:


If they did that, it would be possible we would also find an exploit and manipulate it to our own means. While they have their reasons, we should just believe that they did it for our own good. It is their game after all, and they must look out for the general public's interests. After all; we = fanatics. Although what you say wasn't necessarily a bad idea.

Okay, this whole thing is stupid. I have to say things for both sides-

Deathknight2004- Take a break. YOU DO THIS 24/7. Please, stop using programs to do your stuff and just go back to in-game glitching, you never play any games anymore, and you really are starting to turn into a complete jerk towards me and other people.

All the people who are complaining about replays-
Big Deal Replays are replays, and none should be corrupted anyhow. No in-game things were fixed(in melee), unless they kept it hidden. And I don't think you should just be getting mad about it just because of replays...

After conversing with someone who, as far as I know, knows more on the topic then me (namely malicious code in sc), I have been enlightened to the fact that it was indeed possible to use EUDs to execute malicious code. Now while I still am skeptical to the extent of how malicious this code could be, I do and have always realized that blizzard would have had a VERY good reason for patching EUDs. More of my anger and frustration about the patch itself was simply in the fact that I didn't understand blizzards reasoning for patching them.

Some people have mentioned that it really doesn't matter that EUDs were patched since we never had them before. Think of it this way, hypothetically speaking, let's say that their was some exploit that allowed users to manipulate extended terrain to execute malicious code. Blizzard would then have to patch (however possible) extended terrain so that we couldn't use it. Think of all the things we would have lost. Now while some aspects would not really matter, (no square terrain=no overload of bound maps), a whole host of other amazing things would have been lost. Just look through the terrain form, look through the map database, and you'll see countless examples of amazing things using extended terrain.

So I guess what I need to sum up is that I need to apologize for responding so vehemently against people who said you could execute malicious code. Now while definitions of malicious code may vary, the final thing is, EUDs were malicious enough that blizzard was forced to patch them. I only wish that there was some way to keep them and remove the malicious aspect, but that appears to only be wishful thinking.

that must b true, but no overload of bounds sounds good ,but no square terrain

Technically, we'd always be able to use all the valid squares, or normally made maps would get screwed over too.

No need to flame ihatett? He was the one who started bashing ME. The least I could do was defend myself poorly.


That would be ihatett blaming me.


The EUDs were NOT a problem until someone found a malicious use for it.


Blizzard did NOT patch the EUDs in ACTIONS because of macs crashing, otherwise they would have patched the EUDs in CONDITIONS, which they didn't. The conditions freeze mac users instantly when read.

I'm only a "jerk" towards other people if they decide to bash me for things I DIDN'T do, or things that are completely ridiculous. Example: You, MrrLL, in that one game didn't finish the level because I saved a civ that I would have NEVER used, and that f a g wesmic who acts all like ihatett was shoving bull up my ass.

Oh and all that off topic spam wasn't much different than any of ihatett's posts regarding the EUDs.

Or you could have admited you were ignorant on the security risk instead of pretending that you think it was safe. ihatett was the only one to consider the risk seriously, 1 week ago, everyone was jumping on him.


if "someone" found it, anyone could have done the same... With the info you gave about EUD, if someone found this malicious use in 1 week, it mean it was easy and a serious thread for SC short term future. You cant discover something dangerous and just pretend "hey, i dont want to know if it can <insert here some very malicious things> but it's cool and blizzard should wait that every SC user get <insert here some serious troubles> to make a patch."

Let's be clear, i'm not bashing anyone, but if i asked yoshi what he learned from this, he will have plenty of mature things to say. If i ask you, what would you say ? isn't there anything you regret ? if you could rewind the time of 2 weeks, would you change anything ? i belive people can change.

What exactly is the security risk?

We know just about nothing except that there supposedly is one. Deathknight has already said that the buffer overflows weren't dangerous.

no one seems to understand that EUD's cannot edit anything on your hard drive, becuase they can only edit memory, and only starcraft memory at that. if someone even managed to make a virus in the memory with EUD's they wouldnt even be able to execute it.
oh nm, i just read supertoasts post :headsmack:

I still think they did it purely for Macs. Until someone tells me exactly what the threats of EUD were, I will continue to think that.

I just wrote a program to re-enable the effects of EUD triggers. It will be a news post here once an admin approves it, or you can download it at http://blizzforums.com/showthread.php?t=64324

You.are.awesome hiemdal.
That looks excellent.

I never said with 100% comfirmation it didn't pose a security risk, and ihatett never said it did. He was just all "OH MY GOD, DEATHKNIGHT, STOP MAKING BLIZZARD PATCH STARCRAFT, MY REPLAYS ARE BECOMMING CORRUPTED, IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD!" The entire issue was NOT about a security risk, but rather ihatett's ignorant hatred towards me.

The thing about the EUDs is I did not think it was harmful. I thought the 65535 unit ID limit restricted the use of malicious code. You act as if I knew what it could do and whatnot. The EUDs were beyond what Starcraft needed- MORE than modding capabilities, if you can understand why I'd release it to the public because of this, then you can understand how other people feel about the situation. Ihatett never understood that.

I regret even arguing with ihatett. I should have just laughed at him and ignored him.

i still dont understand how malicious code could be run through euds. i do understand that buffer overflows are dangerous allowing code into other parts of memory how ever i dont understand how you could execute or even embed anything in a ums map with any triggers. just saying its a possibility isnt enough to convince me i want to know HOW.


Addition: Heimdal r0x my s0x

it's because not a lot of people understand that nobody had any damage durring those 2 weeks when EUD was known but unpatched... and it's better if it stay this way, people still need the old SC versions to watch their replays.

just trust blizzard, they know

SP, you must agree it would of been far worse if it had been kept secret, and those with poor intent used it malciously, then Starcraft would be in a worse situation. This way has cleared the issue up more effectively than anything else.

yes, no harm and the situation is cleared now. But that's just because durring those 2 weeks were the vulnerability was well known, that nobody with evil intentions succeded in understanding and exploiting it. that's why i think the "good" way to handle a serious vulnerability in the future is to warn blizzard and keeping the matter private for the time it takes for them to evaluate the risks and make a patch if necessary.

Hopefully, even though this was patched, maybe it gave people a reason to come back to mapmaking. (Now that they know ppl could research this further)

To my knowledge (which is quite little, considering how busy I am lately, so I couldn't keep up with all this), only modifying the memory was blocked. We can still read the memory range, can't we? So, compared to a few weeks ago, our repertoire of mapping tools has still been increased to what was once thought impossible (detecting HP anybody?) So why don't we stop whining about what Blizzard took away, and start mastering what is still available to us?

Well, editing the memory was not blocked, because I can still do it with alliance extended triggers.. (well, beta testing uberedit, which has a built in thing for it)