Report, edit, etc...Posted by Chef on 2006-09-05 at 22:37:19
QUOTE
Protecting a map is no different than placing a marine on the map, as I've already said. It does not violate anything. In either case, your quote refers to the program it self, not the map.
You can't make a protected map without a technically illegal editor. The fact that Blizzard doesn't really give **** is irrelevant. Legacy's program might as well be an illegal 3rd party patch, updating Blizzard's needy game, the way they would if they cared.
All I'm saying is Blizzard intended for maps to be open source, else they would have added a protection function. Whether they care if they are or not, is beyond our comprehension.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by exo6yte on 2006-09-05 at 22:38:31
QUOTE(Yoshi da Sniper @ Sep 5 2006, 09:36 PM)
Well you guys, I've pretty much said all that there is to say. My only wish is that some of you wouldn't attack me on a personal level only because I have a different opinion then you. Insulting my logic and intelligence were the minor ones, I liked Desperado's post the best, about how I alone apparently killed map making years ago.
I've always been a crappy map maker and have never hidden that. My work in the DLDB is of usually very low quality compared to everyone else's and I think only one of my maps have ever been mainstream on battle.net. People like Bolt_Head and Tuxedo Templar had way more success then me, but I created this site for other people not so great at map making. I wanted to learn more about making websites then making maps, thats why it is actually the community that took most of the direction in finding new things.
Welp, I have some more communities to go destroy. I think some of the SENers have grown to such an immaturity and closed-mindedness level that they would personally attack someone with irrelevant points in order to win an argument. I do hope that moose or IP changes this soon.
Since I'm so good at destroying communities, its best I stop doing map nights and go do something else. So the rest of you can try make it happen, but it'll eventually die out like it did the last time.
You know where I'll be. Have nice lives everyone.
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I've always been a crappy map maker and have never hidden that. My work in the DLDB is of usually very low quality compared to everyone else's and I think only one of my maps have ever been mainstream on battle.net. People like Bolt_Head and Tuxedo Templar had way more success then me, but I created this site for other people not so great at map making. I wanted to learn more about making websites then making maps, thats why it is actually the community that took most of the direction in finding new things.
Welp, I have some more communities to go destroy. I think some of the SENers have grown to such an immaturity and closed-mindedness level that they would personally attack someone with irrelevant points in order to win an argument. I do hope that moose or IP changes this soon.
Since I'm so good at destroying communities, its best I stop doing map nights and go do something else. So the rest of you can try make it happen, but it'll eventually die out like it did the last time.
You know where I'll be. Have nice lives everyone.
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Leave us, you false prophet! Abandon, apostate! We need not a saviour such as you!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by L-inspecteur_Chocolat on 2006-09-05 at 22:38:59
Shut up retard.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by RexyRex on 2006-09-05 at 22:39:48
Yeah. Well. I think I'm dropping out of this one...in the long run, it doesn't matter. OSMAP will continue to unprotect maps and the only real argument should be what Moose does about SEN's map protection policy. Something I'm not all that interested in.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cole on 2006-09-05 at 22:39:49
Legacy, I would like to state that I am a very big supporter in what you were trying to accomplish.
There are other options mini-moose.
One option would be rewriting policy to not include anything about protection.
Another option would be, take Legacy's ideas a step forward. Push SEN into a new direction. A direction that looks to how fun a map is rather than who made it.
Or as Legacy said, an individual person may support unprotection and nothing has to be changed.
However it's up to you, and it's a big decision, however is not a decision where one option is right and the other is wrong.
Anyway I expect the community understands what Legacy is trying to accomplish. I don't expect everyone to accept it, as people will always disagree. I'm also wondering if that if SEN fails to support the ideas that Legacy wants to get across that you Legacy will design your own website to push your idea? My only fear would be splitting the community.
QUOTE
Rewrite policy - which means SEN starts supporting unprotection now. This results in all of the cries of how "Moose rewrites the rules for his friends" (assuming, as usual, that I favor staff which I did not hire). All of the Anti-Elitism crusaders will pick up their swords and banners and run amok. Map stealing still remains a crime and will probably see an increase.
There are other options mini-moose.
One option would be rewriting policy to not include anything about protection.
Another option would be, take Legacy's ideas a step forward. Push SEN into a new direction. A direction that looks to how fun a map is rather than who made it.
Or as Legacy said, an individual person may support unprotection and nothing has to be changed.
However it's up to you, and it's a big decision, however is not a decision where one option is right and the other is wrong.
Anyway I expect the community understands what Legacy is trying to accomplish. I don't expect everyone to accept it, as people will always disagree. I'm also wondering if that if SEN fails to support the ideas that Legacy wants to get across that you Legacy will design your own website to push your idea? My only fear would be splitting the community.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yoshi da Sniper on 2006-09-05 at 22:40:10
QUOTE(exo6yte @ Sep 5 2006, 10:38 PM)
Leave us, you false prophet! Abandon, apostate! We need not a saviour such as you!
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Henseforth, I shall be off!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by WoodenFire on 2006-09-05 at 22:40:16
Why should anyone spend hundreds of hours on map making when they know they will not recieve one bit of respect when it comes to keeping the map the way it was finished as?
I don't understand why this topic even exists... We are not supposed to be fighting for the rights of corperations, but of the rights of the individual... We are map makers, not executives of Blizzard.
This really sickens me.
I don't understand why this topic even exists... We are not supposed to be fighting for the rights of corperations, but of the rights of the individual... We are map makers, not executives of Blizzard.
This really sickens me.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by exo6yte on 2006-09-05 at 22:41:10
QUOTE(L-inspecteur_Chocolat @ Sep 5 2006, 09:38 PM)
Shut up retard.
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Excuse me? Please don't use an ad hominem attack on me. I'm trying to spread righteous zeal amongst the flock.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by L-inspecteur_Chocolat on 2006-09-05 at 22:41:40
O RLY?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2006-09-05 at 22:41:47
QUOTE(Min @ Sep 5 2006, 10:39 PM)
I'm also wondering if that if SEN fails to support the ideas that Legacy wants to get across that you Legacy will design your own website to push your idea? My only fear would be splitting the community.
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Clan (U)'s wiki is another open source mapping community.[right][snapback]556266[/snapback][/right]
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2006-09-05 at 22:42:07
QUOTE
You can't make a protected map without a technically illegal editor. The fact that Blizzard doesn't really give **** is irrelevant. Legacy's program might as well be an illegal 3rd party patch, updating Blizzard's needy game, the way they would if they cared.
Then get rid of all 3rd party programs.
I already explained why I didn't support this 3rd party program and why I supported others. Don't bring up that argument until you've read every single post in here.
QUOTE
All I'm saying is Blizzard intended for maps to be open source,
Prove that. Them not caring is not proof; it goes two ways.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TERRAINFIGHTER on 2006-09-05 at 22:43:11
I think what I said sums it up pretty good, and I did it without all of your un-necessary flaming. 
I think this topic should be locked, before it ends up being an even bigger flame war.
QUOTE(TERRAINFIGHTER @ Sep 5 2006, 09:29 PM)
I never knew you made that...good job! (I've never used it before, and this is not sarcastic...)
I think this should help out the mapping community alot, one of the things I've always enjoyed about modding is how everything's open-source, and it has a friendly community that's willing to help out with anything, even by giving examples.
Now you're bringing this concept to mapmaking, I personally think SEN should support this, but not the unprotected maps.
(I know, you're all going to flame me...but I just think that mapmakers deserve the same advantages as modders have.)
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I think this should help out the mapping community alot, one of the things I've always enjoyed about modding is how everything's open-source, and it has a friendly community that's willing to help out with anything, even by giving examples.
Now you're bringing this concept to mapmaking, I personally think SEN should support this, but not the unprotected maps.
(I know, you're all going to flame me...but I just think that mapmakers deserve the same advantages as modders have.)
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I think this topic should be locked, before it ends up being an even bigger flame war.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by WoodenFire on 2006-09-05 at 22:43:21
OSMAP goes against justice, rightiousness, honor, and the american-way.
I smell sleeper-cell on LegacyWeapon!
I smell sleeper-cell on LegacyWeapon!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by exo6yte on 2006-09-05 at 22:43:56
QUOTE(CheeZe @ Sep 5 2006, 09:41 PM)
Then get rid of all 3rd party programs.
I already explained why I didn't support this 3rd party program and why I supported others. Don't bring up that argument until you've read every single post in here.
Prove that. Them not caring is not proof; it goes two ways.
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I already explained why I didn't support this 3rd party program and why I supported others. Don't bring up that argument until you've read every single post in here.
Prove that. Them not caring is not proof; it goes two ways.
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nuclearrabbit wouldn't have wanted it this way, don't disgrace her memory! She died so Uberation could LIVE!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by O)FaRTy1billion on 2006-09-05 at 22:46:08
QUOTE(LegacyWeapon @ Sep 5 2006, 08:22 PM)
Blizzard did nothing to stop the spread of OSMAP. By doing so, they supported the program.
Maybe because blizzard doesn't care if you protect or unprotect. If they supported unprotection, they would have done something about protection in the first place.
I think map protection is overrated... its still nice to have though. If it weren't for little kidiots editing your map this whole protection thing would not be a problem.
Now that I am thinking about it, is map editing even much of a problem anymore? It seems now all people do is make maps and keep them in a small circle of people.
[sub][sub][sup][sup]Reading 5 pages of a topic you just found is not fun.[/sup][/sup][/sub][/sub]
EDIT:
QUOTE
nuclearrabbit wouldn't have wanted it this way, don't disgrace her memory! She died so Uberation could LIVE!
Eh, I don't know where you have been, but NR is some wierd guy living in Colorado who is now attending college, and frequently visits SENv5. I'd ask him for a response to that, but he isn't online. EDIT:
And abused the fact that people will sometimes accept whatever you give them...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2006-09-05 at 22:46:22
QUOTE(LegacyWeapon @ Sep 5 2006, 09:28 PM)
Now as a "celebration" of 1000 OSMAP entries, I am releasing the source of uBeR@TiOn3:
http://osmap.amidal.com/uberation3.zip
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I notice everyone is disregarding this line.http://osmap.amidal.com/uberation3.zip
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Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Shattered_moose on 2006-09-05 at 22:47:25
Probably because most of us don't have the programming expertise to do anything with that source code.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by exo6yte on 2006-09-05 at 22:48:12
QUOTE(LegacyWeapon @ Sep 5 2006, 09:45 PM)
I notice everyone is disregarding this line.
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You expose the weakness of your previous works so the devils of unprotection, map theft and evil can more easily destroy mapping as we know it! You are truly soulless, LegacyWeapon!
QUOTE(L-inspecteur_Chocolat @ Sep 5 2006, 09:47 PM)
Parmesean cheese is really good with spaghetii sauce over chicken patties. You should try it.
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OOH, that sounds delicious!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PCFredZ on 2006-09-05 at 22:50:37
Yo Legacy, include something in the next version of OSMAP that goes like this:
"If you're going to unprotect a map by PCFredZ, don't make it World of Starcraft 3"
(last time I checked the database there were 5 of them)
"PCFredZ offers WoS3 in unprotected and uncompressed form on staredit.net
But asks that you PLEASE try to unprotect WoS2 or Majesty RPG 1.5d and PM it to him on SEN. Thanks a bunch and have fun mapping."
"If you're going to unprotect a map by PCFredZ, don't make it World of Starcraft 3"
(last time I checked the database there were 5 of them)
"PCFredZ offers WoS3 in unprotected and uncompressed form on staredit.net
But asks that you PLEASE try to unprotect WoS2 or Majesty RPG 1.5d and PM it to him on SEN. Thanks a bunch and have fun mapping."
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mini Moose 2707 on 2006-09-05 at 22:52:58
All I can say at this point is that I'm going to sleep (my hasty decisions on big issues like this tend to be the worst). Tomorrow I'll post a decision or closure of some sort.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by exo6yte on 2006-09-05 at 22:54:30
QUOTE(Mini Moose 2707 @ Sep 5 2006, 09:52 PM)
All I can say at this point is that I'm going to sleep (my hasty decisions on big issues like this tend to be the worst). Tomorrow I'll post a decision or closure of some sort.
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You can silence this conversation, devil-man, but you will never stop map protection! We will stop those newbies from progressing any further in their mapping! Good maps belong only to the Cabal Of The Mighty Mappers!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Chef on 2006-09-05 at 22:55:14
QUOTE
Prove that. Them not caring is not proof; it goes two ways.
So Blizzard intended to add in protection, they just never got around to it? WOW YOU'RE SMART! I gave you my proof.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TERRAINFIGHTER on 2006-09-05 at 22:55:16
...You might as well close it now, the flame/spam war will get worse and worse with age...
Leaving it left open like this is the same as pouring gasoline on a fire, it just feeds it and makes it bigger.
Leaving it left open like this is the same as pouring gasoline on a fire, it just feeds it and makes it bigger.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PCFredZ on 2006-09-05 at 22:56:02
Ooh, forgot to show some surprise.
WOW, Legacy! Didn't expect YOU to be the creator of OSMAP! After every Uberation gave my maps "Too many corridors" error I didn't think you could make any working program at all!
WOW, Legacy! Didn't expect YOU to be the creator of OSMAP! After every Uberation gave my maps "Too many corridors" error I didn't think you could make any working program at all!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Shattered_moose on 2006-09-05 at 22:56:37
I dunno, I'm liking the progressive descent of this thread into surrealism, its pretty hilarious, and I'd hate to see it locked.