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Staredit Network -> Modding Chat -> DatEdit: new/old SC modding tool
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SubFocus on 2006-11-19 at 08:28:52
I was just editting a units.dat entry... And under the advanced tab, the box "Single Entity" was unchecked by default, for a unit that it should be checked for. So I tried checking it and it still had no effect. Is this something wrong on my end or uh...?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by wingedcloud on 2006-11-19 at 08:31:00
i think................ is that unit neutral or your unit?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SubFocus on 2006-11-19 at 08:33:43
QUOTE(wingedcloud @ Nov 19 2006, 09:31 AM)
i think................ is that unit neutral or your unit?
[right][snapback]591417[/snapback][/right]


Both. They are the same unit. I have taken the Neutral Bengalass, made it biuldable, gave it proper AI actions (For attacking and guarding and such), gave it a weapon, and modified it's iscript.bin entry so that it uses the weapon.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ojan on 2006-11-19 at 08:37:52
What he meant was, is it your unit, or is it controlled by player 12?

You can never select more than 1 units of other players units....
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BroodKiller on 2006-11-19 at 09:15:01
QUOTE(Ojan)
I found a bug that needs to be addressed, so no sitting back and relaxing just yet - at least one more update is required smile.gif


Which one do you mean? Oh, and what did you 'fail' about? I think I missed it...

ADDITION:
TheNomad>Would you mind repeating what were they about?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ojan on 2006-11-19 at 09:21:12
I mean this: When you click on a checkbox so you get a little "selection outline", but do not actually toggle the checkbox's status, and then select another unit / editor and go back, the status of the checkbox HAS changed. In other words, go to the marine's advanced tab, and click on the Spellcaster checkbox, for example. Don't actually enable it, but just select it. Now click on the SCV for example, and then the Marine again. Now he will be a spellcaster, even though you never actually enabled it. This seem to apply to most Units.dat and Weapons.dat checkboxes.

Ignore the fail part. I misunderstood it. :p
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BroodKiller on 2006-11-19 at 09:33:48
Hmm...I was sure that I included info about it in the ReadMe file, but apparently I didn't (I am 100% sure that it was in the closed Beta Readme though)...as for the 'bug', it is present ever since the first release: there is not much that I can do here, because it is the result of how the clicks are handled in the TCheckBox component in VCL. I may look into it again, if you want, but I am pretty confident that I can't work it around.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ojan on 2006-11-19 at 09:52:38
Didn't realize that... That's a real bummer...

Do look into it... It must be possible to fix relatively easily? Aren't there loads of checkbox controls out there that you can use instead? smile.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by SubFocus on 2006-11-19 at 10:36:44
Oh I forgot to say this: DatEdit rules. It pwnz Arsenal III so badly. Everything about it rules. Good job.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by wingedcloud on 2006-11-19 at 11:08:38
dude... if KA is here.. he might kill subfocus...

anyways broodkiller, can you believe it? you updated DEdit to 1.3, but i am still using 1.14d! amazing!! (thats the version.. i think?)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BroodKiller on 2006-11-19 at 12:01:51
wingedcloud>It's good news indeed, because it means that even the older releases were quite useful smile.gif

Ojan>I've looked into it, and within the confines of VCL, there is no way that I know of that I can work around this 'problem'. Still, it's a minor one.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheNomad on 2006-11-21 at 17:49:35
QUOTE(BroodKiller @ Nov 19 2006, 05:15 PM)
TheNomad>Would you mind repeating what were they about?
[right][snapback]591438[/snapback][/right]


Oops, sorry about that sad.gif
Looks like Ojan explained it smile.gif There are also some bugs I mentioned on your WB thread that are annoying (especially the one when it closes for no reason).

As for the checkbox, is there a way you can do a backup boolean for bChecked and reset the normal bChecked value with the backup each time the tab is opened ? If it is possy in VCL that is.

BTW, you should update the IScript states in the Orders tab. Most don't correspond to SF's IceCC version smile.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BroodKiller on 2006-11-22 at 04:01:20
Hmm....wait, I just got an idea, I will explore it later today.

EDIT:Yay, it works! Instead of exploiting VCL, I just altered my own code this time:)

ADDITION:
Oh btw could someone please check how DatEd works under WINE? I remember someone testing it long time ago, and it worked fine, but I'd like to know if it still works ok. Any volounteers?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ojan on 2006-11-22 at 10:42:09
Does that mean you made it work? If not, some flags do behave fine, like the Sprites checkboxes.


Also: You need to take another look at the Tab IDs... :)

Units.dat StarEdit tab: The next tabstop after Rank/Sublabel should be the dropdown box.

Weapons.dat: The number boxes for Graphics and Icons should be before the dropdown boxes.

Images.dat: The "Check" buttons are wrong :)

Upgrades.dat: The number boxes for Icon and Label should be before the dropdown boxes.

Techdata.dat: Same as Upgrades.dat

Apart from them, it all seems fine ;)



Please reimplement the unused StarEdit flags in units.dat :(
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BroodKiller on 2006-11-22 at 12:14:52
The thing that some on/off properties bahave fine and some don't is the result of the way these properties are stored. Those that 'work' are single bolean properties, 0 or 1 in the hex, but some -the only which should be referred to as 'flags'- are multiple binary properties contained in one hex value as its particular bits.

As for the rest, I will look into that.

ADDITION:
QUOTE(Ojan @ Nov 22 2006, 05:42 PM)
Does that mean you made it work?
Yeah smile.gif
QUOTE
Weapons.dat: The number boxes for Graphics and Icons should be before the dropdown boxes.

Upgrades.dat: The number boxes for Icon and Label should be before the dropdown boxes.

Techdata.dat: Same as Upgrades.dat

Arent' they?

QUOTE
Images.dat: The "Check" buttons are wrong smile.gif

In what way?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheNomad on 2006-11-22 at 12:43:37
QUOTE(Ojan @ Nov 22 2006, 06:42 PM)
Please reimplement the unused StarEdit flags in units.dat sad.gif
[right][snapback]593223[/snapback][/right]


Hmm, do you plan on using them in asm ? That is the only reason I can think of now tongue.gif
Broody, maybe add an "view advanced" button to allow the unused stuff as well.

And don't forget to label the movement flags as Ground, Air and Creep even if they are not used so that people actually know what they mean smile.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BroodKiller on 2006-11-22 at 17:04:11
I will not label them, because -if they're not used- they don't have a meaning at all.Doing this, even with an accompanying hint, will cause more confusion that good.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheNomad on 2006-11-22 at 18:09:46
Hmm, I tend to disagree. You could just remove them altogether. Still, Mine-Safe IS used. And also, I think you can just say "Unused Movement Flags" and then label them. Mine-Safe is used so you can make a hint about it or whatever. Trust me, keeping them there with just 0x40 make ppl not touch them, but still makes them curious. If you don't want to label them, then take my old suggestion to remove movement flags and move Mine-Safe to the Advanced block after "Unused ?"
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kookster on 2006-11-22 at 18:09:51
I agree with BK, if you label them it will probably cause confusion, name should just stay unused
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ojan on 2006-11-22 at 18:38:11
QUOTE(Ojan)
Also: You need to take another look at the Tab IDs... :)

Units.dat StarEdit tab: The next tabstop after Rank/Sublabel should be the dropdown box.

Weapons.dat: The number boxes for Graphics and Icons should be before the dropdown boxes.

Images.dat: The "Check" buttons are wrong :)

Upgrades.dat: The number boxes for Icon and Label should be before the dropdown boxes.

Techdata.dat: Same as Upgrades.dat

Apologies for being unclear. Everything I said above refers to the tab IDs. What's wrong about the Images.dat "check" buttons is that they aren't selected in a logical order when pressing tab. I blame tiredness ;)

TheNomad: I don't plan on adding functionality through ASM, but it's possible, and we don't know what the future brings. DON'T REMOVE ITEMS! In my mind, that's the same as making the editor fundamentally flawed. The whole point should be to allow the best way of editing the .dat's as possible, and hiding a few properties here and there - even if they are unused - does not make it the best way of editing, it limits your possibilities.

The Movement flags are good as they are, in my opinion. The StarEdit flags were good as they were, before half of them was removed. I don't agree with TheNomad's ideas about the movement flags. "0x04" won't make people go crazy, and if they are curious, perhaps it'll inspire them to look into the finer arts of SC modding a bit more. If we make the road perfectly straight, it won't be a challenge to mod, and even less will. Removing flags is putting obstacles into the road, which is not the intention either.

I agree that a "view advanced" option would work, and I would have nothing to say against that, but I assume it's quite some work while the gain is little. Why limit the editor? It is actually possible to make use of these values.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheNomad on 2006-11-22 at 19:11:37
QUOTE(Ojan @ Nov 23 2006, 02:38 AM)
... and hiding a few properties here and there - even if they are unused - does not make it the best way of editing, it limits your possibilities.


Not labeling is the same as hiding wink.gif
I don't see why the names have to be stripped just because they are unused. It's really the same as removing unused flags imo. In the end it is BK's decision, but although I was among the first to suggest to remove unused flags I do regret it now considering the ideas I got and having some sneak peeks at the EXE structure with all kinds of ideas flowing in... If it's labeled as 0x01, I don't see the problem of labeling it as "Ground" just for laughs... The "Use Ability" label was there for months, until it was realized that it's unused in weapons.dat, but it didn't bother anyone, same for most unused stuff that'd be good to at least say what it points to. Just cos some of us know what they do or what they point at or if they are or aren't unused doesn't mean they should be removed I guess. Still, I won't push it if you guys don't want to, but I just think it'd be better, that's all... i don't see a problem with renaming them. If it's just that they take up space, ok then. But I just want you all to remember how annoying it was to see only Unk20, Unk0x14 etc. written in Arsenal and IceCC, so now that we actually have their real names, I find it ironic that we still use the opcodes convention.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Voyager7456(MM) on 2006-11-22 at 19:14:38
I think a better description for the Cloakable flag would be "Causes the unit to display the Group (Cloakers) button set when selected in a group.", the Cloakable flag doesn't affect the requirements to use the spell, it only has to do with things like selecting Wraiths + Ghosts together.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheNomad on 2006-11-22 at 22:21:40
Because I like to break my record on finding out about the unknown (pun intended !!!), I have another behavior for you to write down, Broody.

Dunno how many of you watch my experiments when I try to help others, but my latest complaint was that nobody found how to make some units or images selectable. My latest experiment was helping Lord (iirc) to use the HT silhouette as a new unit gfx and he got crashes for one reason or another. Anyway, point is, you couldn't select it unless you used the click+drag selection method.

Well, without further ado, I present to you the solved mystery... (obviously, as any finding it wasn't intended and I was looking for something else tongue.gif but hey, a genius' work is never done even if it is almost 5 am now and I have to wake up in 1 hour tongue.gif). Anyway... enough about me, onwards with the mystery. It's due to "Shadow turns".

Apparently apart from the classic "Determines if active underlays/overlays dictated by Iscript.bin (shadows and glows mostly) should have dynamic animations, that is - whether they should be dependent on the direction the main sprite is facing." hint provided by DatEd, it is also responsible for the direct selection. Checked = you can select it and you have the little weird rotating handler that lets you know you can select the unit, unchecked, the unit is unselectable (except with drag+click).

So I suggest you add this nifty info in the hints in case others want to do my crazy experiments and to change the name, since it isn't responsible for shadows alone, to something like hmm... "Additional overlays" or something like that (since it handles selection overlays, shadow overlays, animation and so on...

No need to say it, I know I rock wink.gif

... And because instead of sleeping I experiment (bleh) and it's 5:28 here, I wanted to remind you to update the IScript headers from Animations.txt. And here they are taken from my trusty doc reference file compiled with the help of many that contributed in various IceCC threads smile.gif

CODE
- 0x00   0 Initialization
- 0x01   1 Death
- 0x02   2 GroundAttackInit
- 0x03   3 AirAttackInit
- 0x04   4 Unused1
- 0x05   5 GroundAttackRepeat
- 0x06   6 AirAttackRepeat
- 0x07   7 UseAbility
- 0x08   8 GroundAttackToIdle
- 0x09   9 AirAttackToIdle
- 0x0A  10 Unused2
- 0x0B  11 Walking
- 0x0C  12 WalkingToIdle
- 0x0D  13 SpecialState1
- 0x0E  14 SpecialState2
- 0x0F  15 AlmostBuilt
- 0x10  16 Built
- 0x11  17 Landing
- 0x12  18 Lift-Off
- 0x13  19 IsWorking
- 0x14  20 WorkingToIdle
- 0x15  21 WarpIn
- 0x16  22 Unused3
- 0x17  23 SubUnitInit
- 0x18  24 Disabled
- 0x19  25 Burrow
- 0x20  26 Unburrow
- 0x21  27 Enabled


Yeah, some are not the way SF finalized them, but they seem sexier this way wink.gif
BTW, notice 0x17. I have a hunch (which will most likely prove to be correct wink.gif ) that it is not "InitTurret" and unused like initially thought, but has to do with subunits.
... I know, I know... I rock biggrin.gif


Oh and because it is 5:36 and I am still sleepexperimenting, here is another edit... I noticed that if I add a new iscript entry in your IScript ID list it all works fine. That should be logical, since nothing changes in the dat (size-wise) and the IScript entries are taken from the bin file. So, my suggestion is if you could add an "ADD Iscritp entry" button there so that we don't have to manually edit the text file... many might not know where to do it (yes, I like to snoop tongue.gif) and maybe some don't want to edit any original IScript entries.

Just a thought wink.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by ShadowFlare on 2006-11-23 at 02:09:08
I put the note by it in my list saying it is unused for the reason which I mentioned here: http://www.staredit.net/index.php?act=ST&f...=20#entry593581
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BroodKiller on 2006-11-23 at 15:27:07
TheNomad>If you find a rock on the road, do you call it "an apple"?If something does not have a certain meaning, attributing it to it is simply a lie, and asking for doing it "just for kicks" is, to be honest, most naive and stupidish.
As for the "Add Iscript Entry" button, that's a negative, primo because adding just a name is useless, secundo - it would change the listing for good, unless you delete it manually from the text file, which obviosuly is a problem when you start a new project, and tertio - the reason why the ID input box is there is in case a modder may want to use additional headers.

As for "Shadow Turns", that's an interesting find indeed. I shall look into it.

Ohm and yeah, you rock - you're a really big stone.

Ojan>Took account of the glitches. Thanks (as always).
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