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Did God name us in every language on the planet too? Or are English speakers the only true kind of man? Please clarify. Axell's post makes perfect sense, think about it for 2 minutes (or are you too used to following and letting other people think for you?).

Pshyco, I think you are completely missing my point(but first the first people on earth didn't speak english...). What I was saying is that the difference between animals and humans is that God classified us differently. By calling us a different name that is. What Kirby was saying is that if we made up a name for a certain animal would it be called that instead of classified as an animal. My point was that only if God stated it wasn't an animal then it wouldn't be one. That had nothing to do with language, you are just misinterpreting the words. And I never said Axell's post didn't make sense, only that I did not want to read into it.

Okay, but in the English language mankind falls under the catagory of animals, being that there are only two types of living things in the English language (plants and animals) you should probably use the terms your faith believed was the original language. One last question about language, were the first people according to your religion adam and eve (I assume) able to speak fluently in this original language from the day they were created? I'm not entirly sure how this realates to gays vs christians but I'm sure we'll connect the dots later.

Wow it seems as if you are genuinely intrigued? That is awesome. If you are just being mean and sarcastic that would suck...but seems as if you are truly curious. I made a topic called Christianity Questions. You can ask more there if you want. And about your question actually, I am not sure myself. I can read up on Genesis a bit more I guess...and Mankind is the translation made form the old language used(I believe it was Hebrew?). And I think God was saying Mankind=humans. The thing I am trying to point out is that He named us but didn't name animals. He wanted to show that we were classified as different. I...hope that clears it up..?

Humans are animals. This can be proven very easily. The word "animal" is, like I said, just a word. A word interpreted by many people that use english as their language. That means, if we were to look up the definition for it, it should tell us if we are classified as an "animal".



From what I've learned in biology, humans are multicellular organisms of the kingdom Animalia. We don't get food through photosynthesis like plants, and we can walk. We have a fixed body structure and restricted growth. I think I can very easily conclude we are "animals".

If you continue to say we're not animals, it's pretty obvious you're using another definition for it and most likely making it up at the same time.

Also, this is just for laughs but, you know how anti-evolutionists are always like "EVOLUTION VIOLATES THE 2ND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS!!"? Well, God creating humans from dust violets the law of conservation of mass! ;D

Alright, it appears that this "debate" is still being waged, with even moderators *coughs* getting heated up over this silly little argument. I'll clear something up: we are animals. Just as dogs are animals, we are animals as well, and I bet Cheeze felt a little incredulous just like I did at your blatant ignorance.

And I do wish that you would stop using that God damn faith of your's to defend all of your stances. Thank God, yes, thank God that the world is not filled with your kind of idiotic riff-raff. The "Christians" unwillingly make their interpretation of a God to be a fairly large asshole, and then they happily go off and worship "Him." Well, if I have to be a prejudiced little bigot to get into Heaven, then I happily march off to Hell. My soul will endure forever knowing that I did the morally right thing.

So, with that said, why is anyone against homosexuality? Few enough humans are that it does not harm the overall population (in fact, it should be embraced as birth control generally is not, and this will help stem our exploding numbers), it causes harm to no one, and it appears that the only reasons you can come up with against homosexuality are your faith and some arguments that consist of nothing more than "I hate homosexuals." Have you any evidence? You so lightly use the name of God, which I feel you are defiling and ask that you stop, to back up your arguments, when rather you are merely using that Bible that has caused enough harm. Don't get me wrong, I think Christianity is a great thing, but you've gone too far. In a logical debate, you cannot use something devoid of logic. I care not for your beliefs, and I ask that you not impress them upon everyone else. I came into this thread actually hoping that I would find reasons as to why "Christians" hate homosexuals. Well, for your information I am Christian. Sue me. The whole thing to developing your spirituality is finding compromises that fit hand in hand with logic as best as it can. Sure, there are a few holes here and there, but it's the best I could do, and it's far more sound than the words shoved down most of your throats since the day you could listen to sermons and remember them. Really, you mine as well all be racist, for you're no better. I truly am glad that you're degrading yourselves to the likes of Adolf Hitler, much beloved dictator of Nazi Germany.

The Definition of Marriage Thread

Felagund what the devil are you talking about? You can not say "Don't use your religion as back-up for your arguments." That is the most retarded thing I have heard....EVER. It would be like me saying "Don't use any facts or evidence to supprt YOUR argument." It is one in the same. So if I am to stop using religion, you stop using these so called "facts". What else do you want me to argue? "Humans aren't animals and that is that."? I think not. You must have some back-up in order to argue anything at all. I think it is YOU who has a false and weakening argument(and I am still not sure where you stand...). Also, I think if you WERE Christian, you would not be making those kind of comments towards God. I have never said "Atheists are dumb and they make no sense." Which is basically what you are saying about Christians. Had you been reading my psots you would have known that nobody "hates" homosexuals, they are just seen as immoral and wrong. Just because I don't think they are right in some of their ways does NOT mean I walk up to them and call them "Gay" or "sinners" or what have you. So Christians don't "hate" homosexuals, it is actually the personal opinion of the person rather they hate them or choose to simply ignore their faults. And if you truly are Christian then I will say this: I think you falsely represent God and you are a blastphemer. Sue ME.

Wow that was longwinded. I still think you're wrong decisive, but bravo on an excellent post!!!

Sure you can, religion isn't considered a place where you can get facts. You can, however, use it to get opinions. You have an opinion that states:

This is what you think. However, when were you given the power to say they are wrong?


Actually, it's not the same. But at the same time, Felagund never really used "facts" nor "evidence", only logic and reasoning. You fail to follow both, and blindly follow what you believe to be correct instead of thinking about what you're saying.


The irony!!!!


When did you get the power to say what he can and can't do? If he wants question something, he should, espcially if he believes something is wrong. If God wants us to have choices, why should we follow his strict rule?


I have never said Christians are dumb. I know plenty of smart ones. However, all of them know how to use logic and reasoning. No one "hates" homosexuals, but you seem to have a problem with the fact that they exist.


Once again, you think you have the power to judge someone. What makes you greater than everyone else? How do you know you're right? Oh right, you don't.

I would like to go slightly off topic with the animal thingy. Can you tell me your opinion on why you don't consider us to be animals. Bulleted points please.

Define Christian, please. You'll realize that each of us have slightly different views. I would rather you use evidence that you can back up rather than use text from an ancient book that almost nothing has been proven in. Believe me you, if I could sue you, I wouldn't waste my time. And yes, what I asked you to do was present facts, but you use the Bible instead. As soon as you can back the Bible up I'll agree with what you say. Until then, I expect actual facts. And you call me a blasphemer? For what, thinking? We were born with brains no? If God didn't want us to think, we'd be able to do nothing more than have the ability to execute mechanical actions...

Attack of the non-believers!? Well anyways, CHeeze. I never said I had power to judge them. I said PEOPLE view them as immoral and wrong. And I also never said I hold a grudge against them or hate them in any way. Somewhere along my posts you assumed that. About the Bible just because you see them as wrong does not mean they are. Many thigns scientists claim to discover are wrong, do you see me exploiting all of those and not allowing you to use them for an argument? No. I also never said he used "facts". I said his statement would be the same as me saying that. And I think it is wrong that he is making those claims aof God, then later saying he is a Christian. It would be the same(once again...*heavy sighs*) as an atheist saying "I think God is the creator of Humanity." And later saying he was atheist. Hmm, doesn't seem right now does it. You aren't "thinking" when you say soemthing like "...interpretation of a God to be a fairly large asshole..." I call that insulting God. But maybe that is just me, huh? HMM. He did give us brains yes, not to insult Him and then claim you love Him. There is a word for that. Maybe two? Hypocrite or blasphemer. Take your pick you are both. Case Closed.

Ad Hominem. Their beliefs in no way determine their credibility.


Scientists constantly revise their opinions when their data is shown to be wrong or inconclusive enough to form a hypothesis. Christians don't revise their opinions no matter what new evidence is introduced, whether it's credible or not.


Are you saying that any Christian who questions his beliefs is not a true Christian? Wow. So I guess that Thomas should not have been a disciple of Jesus, huh? Check this out. The full text is here, for anyone interested.


What it means is that many people question their beliefs. Hell, if Jesus hadn't questioned the beliefs he was taught when he was growing up, Christianity wouldn't exist. So if you're saying it was, well, wrong of Jesus to do such a thing, I'd have to say you're a bit out of line. According to your own beliefs, that is. Oh, and you're also performing Ad Hominem Tu Quoque beautifully.


Where in the Bible does it outlaw being angry at God for inconsistencies in His "divine plan"? You know, those instances where he doesn't act like a "fair and just" God, by killing 99.9% of the world's animal (and human, though I only throw that word in for your benefit) population in the Great Flood. If anger is a sin, I'd hate to be you while you read this.


Oh, a Personal Attack. I've never seen that debate tactic before.

I don't know what post you are reading. How is insulting God "Questioning your faith"? In my book it isn't. It is just plain ole blasphemy. And God didn't destroy the people of the earth because He was unjust, it was only to show people that they were way out of hand and not following Him. He also wanted us to start anew. And anger is not a sin, insulting God IS. And tell me what new evidence is introduced that I need to change the Bible for? Go ahead give me something. I doubt you will find it. And I wasn't referring to scientists revising their work. I was referring to the claims they make about modern-day that are absolutely proposterous. For example, that(very loosely) some rocks slammed together and made human beings(uh huh...). One last thing, point out the "inconsistencies" you find in God's plan.

That's not my job, and it's not why I'm here, but I'll give you one just for kicks. Why did God create the trait of homosexuality in men if it was a sin? According to the Bible, homosexuals automatically are doomed whether or not they act on their beliefs, because sinning in thought is the same as sinning in deed, or however that passage goes. If humans supposedly have free will, why did God not give homosexuals a choice? The only way to defeat this inconsistency is to claim that homosexuality is not a choice, but to date I have never heard a homosexual claim that, even after listening to the personal accounts of some of my gay Christian friends. I trust their word on whether or not it's a choice because they have actually experienced being homosexual, whereas you have not. Therefore, God's plan to give everyone free will (a "choice to be saved", as it is known) is logically inconsistent.

Oh, and the claim that "rocks slammed together" (though your terminology shows ignorance of the current accepted theory) to form man is just as credible as a claim that man was made from clay.

Just for fun, if God exists then he's a real "Bohemian, Rainbow-Humping Suckpot", whatever that means. No offense to any Bohemians in the audience .

Hmm I am disapointed that you resorted to insulting God. The whole rocks hit together comment(laughs histerically) was a sarcastic joke. And man was made form teh earth not clay(A SARCASTIC JOKE!). And how do you know I am not a homosexual? (shall I repeat this....SARCASTIC JOKE! ) Well don't the people who are homosexual still ahve the right to confess that they are gay? Hmm I think they do. If what you say is true(and I highly doubt it) that homosexuals are born with it, they aren't condemned when born. I believe(somewhere in these posts) God gives us ALL a chance to be saved. Yes even poor little Hitler had a chance...So just because they "claim" they were "born" gay does NOT mean they have to burn for it. They could repent to God. Never heard a homosexual claim it is a choice? Ask TheoreticalHuman here(by golly I hope it was you. If it wasn't I apologize ). He states(he???) that it was a choice he made. Anyways, hope that clears it up.

The problem is, even if a homosexual repents his homosexuality, he is still a homosexual and therefore a sinner. Unless he repents at the very instant of his death, or perhaps the last instant of cognizant thought before death, he will still be a sinner when he dies. Which means damnation, right?

LOL. I think you are misunderstanding my post. Umm. If you repent for being homosexual....(how to word this jeez)umm. Sins do not stack?(Bible compared to SC!?!?!?). If you repent for doing whatever you have done it doesn't just go away once you are done repenting....(does that even make sense?). Ok examples are the best way to conform information. Let's say someone commited a murder. They then go homoe very sorry for what they have done and so forth. In there hearts they know it is wrong and (yeah you know the rest). The sit down to pray for forgiveness. Once they are forgiven it doesn't come back upon them and count as a sin. It is over. Get it better now? If you(and again I highly doubt this) can't control the way you feel and repent for it you are forgiven forever. Now if you repent then go have sex with your "partner"...I don't think you wil be forgiven. But that was obvious. Umm....my wording is sometimes horrible...if you didn't understand please tell me what it is you don't get.

So a homosexual prayed for forgiveness. He goes to bed, and dreams of making love to another man. He prays for forgiveness again. In the middle of the day, he thinks about kissing another man. He prays for forgiveness. You don't really understand the concept of sexuality too well, or else you wouldn't be damning homosexuals. The man would have to pray for forgiveness at the LEAST every few hours. For what? Thoughts? Being different? Being homosexual? Give us a better argument then "God says it's wrong". I don't believe in a book composed of writings and stories dating back thousands of years. People were stupid(er) back then. Edit: I NEVER SAID I MADE A CHOICE TO BE HOMOSEXUAL. I said that I was not born gay. It's a characteristic that comes from both environment and natural human sexuality. I was not born definite bisexual. Stop putting words in my mouth, schmuck.

Once again totally overlooked my post...read it damnit that is why it is there. Sorry I got frustrated a little. If his heart is into it...then it is a sin. If he is thinking to himself "Ima go get me a man to &%^% tonight then tomorrow we go shopping and then..." or if he is thinking "Damnit why do I have to like men. Maybe I want to kiss one but I won't allow it" you can(hopefully...) clearly see which one is the right thing to do. And I will repeat this form my last post. Your sins do not add on every second you live. Once you repent(again only if you truly mean it) you are forgiven. For my last example the guy who commited murder. After he prays for forgiveness the same murder does not come back and count as a sin. He may think about the night of the mureder(or what have you) but it does not mena he is guilty of ANOTHER sin. Before you ask something else please carefully read this post.

Being homosexual is not an act. Your murder theory is flawed in that you're talking about an act, not a state of being. Having sex with someone of the same gender would be an act one can "repent" for and have it go away, but being homosexual can't be put on a shelf and forgotten about. You say the thought of sinning is a sin? A homosexual thinks of the sins because he is homsoexual, and as long as he is, they will continously come back again and again.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Again you aren't reading my POST!!! I said the exact opposite. Thinking ISN'T a sin. ISN'T ISN'T ISN'T. Get it now? Read my psots instead of picking and choosing certain parts for crying out loud.



Gosh. Honestly read. And again my post also explained a state of being. As long as he does not(or she I don't care) give into his temptation it is NOT NOT NOT NOT a sin. Gosh.

P.S. Sorry for ranting but seriously read the post that is why it is their. No hard feelings.

so, thinking a guy is hot, therefore having homosexual thoughts, would therefore not be a sin, therefore be a contradicition....hmmmmmm

But anyway, why should christians care about the marriage rights or any other thing of homosexuals. America is a split of church and state, so lets keep it that way. Mind your own business, who cares if they want to get married, they have the right, you have your own problems.

Again you aren't reading my posts. I said the church ISN'T banning gay marriages. I said I do not think George Bush is right in banning gay marriages. I am gettting tired of you shooting off your mouth and not reading. And no, thinking about wanting to kiss a man is not a "sin", and it is NOT a contradiction(contradiction of what anyways?). Again I have alreayd stated these things...like four times! Read before you reply to this post.

Actually, according to the Bible, sinning in thought is the same as sinning in deed. So it is a sin to think about kissing another man.

*Yawn... I decided to pop in before spring break was over and THIS is what happens?!?!? *Sigh.... Oh.. I see Nozomu's doing his homework. Bad Nozomu! For shame!!! Thinking is illegal during Spring Break!
Homosexuality is not a trait. . I've seen too many videos about it and surveys given to gay people on the topic to see otherwise, UNLESS you can bring some evidence to the table as well.

And that's just as credible as man evolving from a unicellular organism, without facts of course. Just a thought.

One thing we have overlooked is "repentance". There's a difference between "forgiveness" and "repentance". Forgiveness is of God; Repentance is of self. Let me explain:
We are supposed to REPENT, and God gives us FORGIVENESS. The debate coming up here is: "Some guys sins, asks God for forgiveness, and then goes out and does the same sin again." Paul debates this issue slightly when he is talking about forgiveness. Paul states this in Romans (paraphrase): "Because God loves us so much, he forgives us. Does that mean we should sin more so we are forgiven more, which makes him love us more? By no means!" In other words, repentance means to cleanse ourselves from this sin AND abstain from it. You don't just "sin, repent, sin, repent", and just keep "salvation" as some fire insurance.

Makes me think of the Pharisees.