Staredit Network

If you hate the government then why so many times in the past on this forum have you defended him? Now theres hypocrisy right there.

S.T.A.R.S, you disgust me. You say, basically, that since we dislike America, we dislike freedom. I'm a great fan of freedom. America was once great. But now, things are shifting into a corporate elite presiding over the masses, a scenario that will spiral out of control. In fact, freedom is decaying.

Another thing about America is our complete and utter disgusting lack of culture or care of the former, and the ultraconformist attitude running rampant throught most of the country, as well as the rise of the ultraconservative Christian fundamentalist right. These trends, I belive are helping to turn America into a hell.

Of course, the moemtn you open your mouth you get labeled: "commie" "freak" "enemy of freedom" "unpatriotic" "terrorist".

He means that the president's religious beliefs, will affect the way he does his job..

The constitution makes it so there cannot be a "Federal Church"

i'm not sure what you're thinking, but if the american government falls, it will result in chaos rather than serenity. would you rather live as one did 2000 years ago? living in a disease-wracked household with the mother trying to produce as many children as possible (due to the extremely high infant and child mortality rates), while the rest of the family slaves away in the fields. oh and, due to the complete lack of proper medicine and infrastructure, you die by the time you're 40 of a (now benign) strain of pneumonia.


tell me, friend. have your rights been infringed on, recently?

to take this discussion a step backwards, do you know what the social contract is? do you know what natural rights are? do you know who john locke is? i'm just curious, because all three of the above articles are of crucial importance to this sort of debate.

it's all well and good to claim the gov't is stealing our freedoms, but can you give me one case of them actually doing so? sure, they've suspended the right of habeus corpus in a select few sitations (with foregin terrorists [argentinian] and those in terror cells...) but, to be quite frank, who cares if the gov't knows what books you've checked out from your local library in the past 6 months.


wait i thought our gov't was good for nothing
but monopolies are bad
and the gov't broke one up

therefore... they are bad? faulty logic there bud. secondly, this is a nation of FREE ENTERPRISE. the economy is not and should not be run by the government. to make this short and sweet for you, all cases of economic 'injustices' aren't related - whatsoever - to the US gov't.





good job spelling
and i'm just wondering... do you actually believe that the US has more strains/occurences of disease than africa? or were you being sarcastic. africa has every single of the above diseases, with a much higher infection rate (due to the complete lack of safer sex). would you also care to explain why africa's average life expectancy is hovering in the high thirties (with some as low as 28), whereas america's is 75+?


what are you taking about
that is completly irrelevant
completely
utterly
modern day europe is mostly socialist (hello germany)
britain is one of europe's last bastions of capitalism (but you're going to say that's a bad thing)


islamofascism (also known as terrorism, although that word has been made taboo around these forums...)
that's all i really need to say
the place is a shizhole, and the sole reason israel is holding out (relatively) is because we're supplying them with massive amounts of foreign aid.


this has no relevance to my argument


WHAT ARE YOU RAMBLING ABOUT? ghangus khan and the mongols EXISTED 1000 YEARS AGO. modern day asia is overcrowded (india and china) and a festering disease pit, but japan and china have powerhouse economies (china, however, will not last - an aging work force and a huge overabundance of single, male men will make the economy begin to slow its rapid rate of ascent)


except for the fact that if i wanted a heart transplant, i'd have to wait at least a year and a half for it

oh wait i'm dead in 6 months woops another victory for public health care


so despite the fact that they produce millions of tons of drugs, they're cool

awesome


incas? relevancy?



we are not the world's leading donator of foreign aid
money
food
everything

oh wait jk we are
america as a whole is the richest country and has the most vibrant economy, ever
the lower class will always exist, unfortuantly. i'm not glorifying their position, but there always needs to be a menial work force - without one industry would not function


the governement kills babies



wait you're american
as the great socrates would say 'if you don't like it, leave' [paraphrase]
when you live in this country
when you're being supported by its land and industry
when your very survival is linked to our success
you have no right to whinge or complain

flee if you have a problem, we're not stopping you




mcdonalds isn't a monopoly
the rest of your argument is crappy anyways. you're blinded by your utter ignorance. i'm giving you cold, hard logic. truth. reason. your passions will not determine whether or not a given logical syllogism is true or false.



if my arguments are flawed, feel free to refute them!
oh and you're straw manning me by the way
with a liberal useage of ad hom (and some appeal to populous)



amerikkka


moral relativism is stupid
there is a correct 'opinion'



I TRUELY DO NOT UNDERSTAND
HOW DOES QUOTING SOMEONE CONSTITUTE A LOGICAL PROOF OF ANYTHING


american gov't /=/ america as a whole

the part does not equal the whole

see that chicken leg right there? it's not the bird itself



i love to have sex with animals


COMMIE
TERRORIST
FREAK
ENEMY
UNPATRIOTIC
NUB jk luvs ya

there also can't be any law prohibiting the free excersize of religion

know your constitution: there are two clauses (the 'establishment' clause and the 'free excersize' clause')

:-)

How so, Our money is backed by our word, our debt is in the trillions.

BTW, why should we leave when this land was made for the free.... Now your saying if someone invaded our country, took it over and put laws that oppress us, we should just leave and let them have the land... flawed logic there. You fight back.

If the american govn't fell we would NOT be like we were 1k years ago, we would just install another form of gov, libertarian socialism would work... As we did with the american revolution, russian revolution, french revolution, they overthrew their governments and installed another. They did not go into the 11th century.

BTW good job and making no sense in half of that....

because that's how the economy works, bud

the world went off the gold standard many years ago
money is backed by word alone

christ isn't TELLING you to leave - straw man
christ isn't saying that if you don't like it here, you can go - we're a free country, leave if you want. chris is saying it's not right to bash a country which has given you so much

we have the highest standard of living in the world
you can't claim our gov't is a facist dictatorial piece of crap when you live a lifestyle that would be considered decadent and ostentatious by 95% of the world (those in humanity who are not as lucky as you are - eg, most of africa. south america. most of asia. most of eastern europe. most of russia.)

"If the american govn't fell we would NOT be like we were 1k years ago, we would just install another form of gov, libertarian socialism would work... As we did with the american revolution, russian revolution, french revolution, they overthrew their governments and installed another. They did not go into the 11th century."

HOW?! with our government, our infrastructure collapsed, how is one going to organize the necessay means to set in place a new government. all public utilities (water... electricity... heating...) will be gone. you can't email your fellow deconstructionist across the country and tel him to start up a new gov, you're going to have to find gas for your car or walk over there and talk to him. you've got illusions of granduer, and you need to snap out of them.

Hmm.. Adding irrelevancy to the thread. Good job, Chris.

The Serious Disscussion thread, is not a place for pride.

So take your blind pride, and leave Chris. All of your threads and replies, always result in spam and flamming. Does that not prove that you're a burdon to these forums?

so instead of repyling to his arguments, you flame him. IS THAT NOT THE DEFINITION OF AD HOM?!

Hmm.. Good job Chris. Making another name?

Is that not against the rules?

I found out because: IS THAT NOT THE DEFINITION OF AD HOM?!

Only you capitalize to emphasize.

listen... bud.
I didn't say a gov would be in place overnight but it would not put us back 1000 years. It is right to critisize a nation whether it gave me much or not. In fact it is our job as I believe theodore roosevelt stated. So your saying nazi germany's citizens, since they were living pretty good during the height of germany's empire, they shouldn't of said anything? Nice logic there. oh and BTW his name isn't christ, its chris. (Wasn't a typo bcuz you said it twice in two different sentences.)
I can say its 'becoming' a facist tyrannical piece of shiz when its true. The steps it is taking resembles nazi germany's steps into facism. You see I don't have illusions of grandeur at all. You think Martin Luther King had i.o.g.? How about Ben Franklin, Samuel Adams, John Hancock, and all those other revolutionaries? Didn't think so.

Kelli, now that you mention him being chris... it is strange that he just joined at and finds this topic of all the others.... making two posts that Chris would make with the exception of using "christ" as chris's name... IP Check on aisle 12!

buddy all of the coherent posts in thist thread have been me

i'm not chris, but i'm on his computer
i'm his friend, he was showing me some of this stuff on his computer, so i decided to reply (using his account)
that's why my syntax and grammar is utterly different (to his previous stuff). differnent person.

also: you, again, failed to rebut my arguments. why is is that, when confronted with a logical argument, so many people resort to fallacies? come on brah keep it up

I won't "refute" your arguements, because there is no point in trying to refute against blind pride.

nice patronization

forgive my 1,000 years comment - hyperbole. unfortuantly, the point still stands that without public utility, there will be anarchy (a negative concept... chaos)

no, bud, i'm saying that if they don't like their gov't, THEY SHOULD LEAVE. if they are unable to leave (for whatever reason) the gov't has broken its social contract and the people have a right to dissolve it. this is straight john locke brah, it's nothing fancy.

how are the USAs actions similar to those commited by nazi germany?
i see no mass genocide/ethnic labelling. if anything, america CELEBRATES diversity.

but ben franklin/samuel adams/john hancock lived under an oppressive gov't - they provided a clear, logical case and started the first real democracy in the modern world.

they DIDN'T advocate destruction of a stable, productive government which looks towards the rights of its citizens (as demonstrated by that gov'ts high life expectancy and standard of living). please don't try to compare yourself to MLK or sam adams - it's not becoming for someone like you.

ADDITION:


i hate to be so presumptuous, but i believe my intelligent and clear argumentation has proven that i am, in fact, a unique individual

hell, my vocabulary alone shows that we're not one and the same. why would chris PRETEND to not know words, them suddenly bust them out in this instance? you're not making sense

ADDITION:


BLIND PRIDE? fallacystrawmanohgodmyheadhurts

you're presented with a clear, logical argument

instead of refuting them, you attack me with overly general maxims about my pride and ego

i fail to see how i'm in the wrong here

Hmm.. Kinda funny, that someone would join at 2AM in the morning, to defend someone that is their "Friend"

Seems to me, that if you are truely his friend, he had you join here to argue against us, because he knows he is beaten by everyone that has posted in this thread.

And it is also funny, how you speak exactly like him, too. And use the same emoticons. And the same "straw man" arguement, too.

And again. If you are in fact his friend, it's pointless to debate against you, because you are to arrogent, blind, ignorant, and pridefull to admit defeat when it's been handed to you on a plater.

1- the patriot act. i've addressed this already. look up. the government needs the power to act in certain cases where the public safety is threatened (please supply me with instances in which the gov't abuses its rights to 'spy' on americans)

2- bush won the electoral vote. he won the presidency. hell, that wasn't even the closest election in history - it didn't go to the house of reps (which has happened numerous times, hello 1800s)

3 - we waged war to free an iraqi people and to tell the middle east that we won't tolerate their crap. the fact that 'ZOMG OIL FIELDS' exist is irrelevant to the issue - OPEC controls the internation oil supply, not us

4 - ok. there have been instances of prisoner abuse. don't paint it out to be a widespread/ordered from the top thing - those who participated were convicted and acted on their own will - THEY WERE NOT ORDERED TO DO SO (besides the fact these guys were prisoners of war WHAT HAPPENED IN WW2?)

5 - k. he has the right to do so when he suspects terrorism. when has this been abused? i know it's been put to good use- venezuala wants their guy back, but he's a known terrorist so we keep him here. good idea or bad idea (i'm voting good, guys, i'd rather have him locked up than bombing shopping malls and embassies)

6- he uses his morality to determine what's right and what's wrong
oh wait i think everyone does this (is he the first religious president? no. is he the first to base his policies on his morals? no.)

7 - source? i don't buy conspiracy theories, at all. OCCAM'S RAZOR PLEASE

8 - what was he supposed to do? shoot the guy? secondly, 50% of crime in america is committed by african americans. what percentage of the population is black? 15%. so, technically, if there were less blacks, there'd be less crime. however, that's ethnic genocide and not moral. the problem is not that they're black, it's that they're in poverty.

9 - IT WAS THE JOB OF NEW ORLEANS AND THE STATE OF LOUISIANA TO COVER THE INITIAL RESPONSE. that's what a state gov't is for.

ADDITION:


yes. that is the case. i came here to argue against you all, because you're wrong. why is that bad? i joined to argue with you. I'M AN ATHEIST CONSERVATIVE WHO IDENTIFIES WITH THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY <-- just throwing that out there

do i really sound exactly like him? please cite examples. i feel we type and argue completley differently

regardless of whether chris was wrong, i'm right. and you all can't just refute my arguments, choosing instead to whine at me because i'm right

i've posted a few times on chris's account, but it's clear which are mine and wich are his - i have none dating before today on his account.

What do you think we are, stupid? "I've posted a few times on chris's account". Okay, yeah. Mmhmm.. You can't keep your stories straight, now can you?

"He's told me a few things", "I've posted a few times" Contradictions my friend, contradictions

Now. See the bold? You've been caught red handed. Why not admit that this "Tidus" is in fact you, and that you're pretending to be him because you have no one else on your side, because you have been beaten?

Oh, I know why..... BLIND PRIDE!

wait wtf
i don't get it
before i had thsi account created, i posted 3 or 4 times on chris's account
i then created this accouunt to continue the discussion (because i am not, in fact, chris and would like a seperate account)

where have i lied/contradicted myself? my story has stayed constant

do you go to sleep early when you have friends over? nah

Wtf ur ol a bunce ov donki rapping ass muncers.

U al got it rong ex-cept Kellimoose & Euro.

Whys are Tidus and S.T.A.R.S-Chris acting teh same, butt with diferent gramer and spelling???

dude sup zoltar

you're probably an alt account (and one that isn't done very well, either)

to set the record straight: i am not chris. i am at chris's house. spending the night. he showed me these forums, i wanted to reply to some of the stuff posted here, so i did. i then created my own account, and continued the debate.

you all have ceased focusing on the debate itself and isntead try to attack my credibility (ad hom lololaosdlasldolololol)

if you can refute my arguments...

ADDITION:


and an entirely different vocabulary and argumentation style

did chris memorize a dictionary overnight or some such nonsense?
you're making a false analogy (herrooo another fallacy)

actually i couldn't tell the differance... i scrolled down too far, read went to reply then noticed it wasn't chris (though it probably is...)

Diff argumentatun style

Seem's like u both biznatch the same, 'nd u both are aroegent...

ok

you're clearly simian

and we're going to bed

TTYL LUVS YA XOXO