Staredit Network

Staredit Network -> Serious Discussion -> Would you take part in a revolution?

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-07 at 14:09:50

Thank you aikanaro. I've known that we label people terrorists who at most might just be protecting themselves, their families, and their country. The downing street memo proved the illegality (word?) of the war. Proved bush LIED to us. hmmm didn't Chris say Clinton got impeached because he LIED to us about a blowjob...? Big whoop, he got something Chris can't... so impeach him.

Again you call me bias chris, yet you are also. So how is that any time of insult? You are a Bias right wing. I am left wing... you support corporations and killing, we support the people and peace.

Why must we kill people who kill people to prove that killing people is wrong?

I shouldn't need to tell you what tortures are going on at Gitmo.. remember... your informed. I have stated in 2 threads what tortures. Others have stated it too, yet you continue to omit them from your (going to copy you) Bias Right wing skull!

BTW how can you actually tell me Cheney did not lie? Waited 14 hours before talking to anyone about it... Says he shot him at 90 yards... hmmm all tests have proven (anyone with a 28 gauge shotgun with one barrel longer then the other (double barrel) can tell you that the damage done could only happen between 15 and 10 feet. Therefore theres 1 lie. Now I have to assume since he lied once, he must have lied more.

As I have stated more then once, if you would read the Downing Street MEmo you would clearly see the illegality of the war. It clearly says (and I've already stated this) that the "facts anbd intelligence was being fixed around the policy."

All FOX, CNN, and most of the Press-Corpse is, is propaganda. I can gaurentee you that any facist country you go to will use propaganada on the one device that nearly EVERYONE owns. Germany did, vietnam used the radio, china does, and I can bet N. Korea does.

BTW continuing to copy me with the "blind" statement further proves your running out of arguments and material.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-07 at 21:17:40

QUOTE(Aikanaro @ Mar 5 2006, 06:32 PM)

I don't want to get too much in this, as it usually makes me nervous to read the reponses..

However, I have to drop in a few words.

"Terrorism", What is it? Are they people who carry bombs on their back? Which is what the media show us. Are they people with different political beliefs? Who are those people considered part of "Terrorism"? As far as we know, the Americans invented the word "Terrorism". Implying something emanates terror. Seeing as it is an American word from origin, we can only presume these so called "Terrorists" produce terror from the American perspective point of view.
So whenever you mention Terrorists, think about who the terrorists really are? America labels them as such. So whenever you hear the word, it is always the American version of it. Meaning, they decide who is a terrorist and what terrorism is. America is a right wing country. Maybe particular left wings are considered terrorists? Maybe people who have a popular status among the crowds for elections. While their political beliefs are different than the American interest.

Every time you mention the word Terrorism to label a group of people, you are not looking at it from 2 different points of views. Since "Terrorists" are what Americans consider them to be so. While it may not be the exact truth.
[right][snapback]440185[/snapback][/right]

Thats a logical way of thinking about it but I think you would agree with me when the army says they are fighting terrorists it means: Non-conventional civilian targeting group of people.

QUOTE(Euro @ Mar 7 2006, 11:09 AM)

Euro can you explain to me how then the British and Russian intelligence was also fixed? Three sources told our President that Iraq had WMDs, and 9/11 just happened so as a president you ignore that right? Wrong. You also ignored or probably didn't see about the 12 hours of tapes we found of Saddam's Iraqi cabinet meetings, where they talked about hiding their WMD programs, hiding their actual WMDs, and talking about seeking nukes. All this during the rightious UN inspecters time, oh wait I thought they were suppose to actually be helpful? They obviously didn't do their job right....

OMG HE LIED ABOUT HOW FAR HE SHOT OMG. Like he EVEN REMEMBERS!! Euro, have you even gone hunting? Ever had something tragic happen? You won't remember the freaking exact specific details. HE SHOT A MAN ON ACCIDENT, the distance is the least thing on his mind. Also, he waited to tell the press, again this accident is none of the public's business, you would have an arguement if Cheney said "I...DID....NOT...SHOOT....THAT....MAN..." but he did not. And with your logic I could say theres no telling what other lies Clinton has told us.

I support business of all sizes except for unregulated monopolies. People got to make money, stop crying cause you can't get a job.

I support the killing/slaughtering/murdering/(Insert what ever death means to you) of people who: Specifically target civilians in other countries (UK, America, etc)

I support the imprisonment of these people if captured and I support throwing away the key and/or execution of these individuals. I do not tolerate their existance.

No Euro, you have not told me/proved to me about the tortures of Gitmo, you only fall back on Abu, which is in Iraq. Provide me something a little closer to home, maybe Cuba?

mmm where have you been lately. What propaganda? They only show whats currently news, such as the Natalie Holloway (spelled that right?) case even though it has diminished. I have only seen maybe two good stories on Iraq, the rest are how bad we are doing and the deaths in Iraq. Provide me evidence of this propaganda.

Further insulting me proves your running out of legit arguements and must fall back on leftist crap-o-la

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-08 at 14:11:59

A few things...

QUOTE

Thats a logical way of thinking about it but I think you would agree with me when the army says they are fighting terrorists it means: Non-conventional civilian targeting group of people.

As far as I can tell, basicly all their targets had military casualties... how can you tell me that that are ONLY targeting civilians? Are you saying we're trying to protect the civies? Oh thats right! "smart" bombs (depleted uranium) Sure helps em' doesn't it. I'm sure the 30,000 - 40,000 casualties were all to help the majority.

LOL you say i'm running out of legit arguments... hmmm... didn't i say that EXACT same thing to you in this topic or another. You started the insult war Mr.NoseInBush'sAss. From all I've heard from the on-lookers, various people including "hewhomustnotbenamedatthismoment" is that your arguments are nothing but things you've heard from FOX, CNN, basicly the press-corpse. Bet you've never heard of the numerous scandals where the CIA arm rebels, train them, assassinate presidents, commit coups in countries. Have you? How can you trust a government who overthrows democratically elected people simply because they "don't live up to the US's interests"? Want proof? Read that book i talked about in the other thread. "Lies my History teacher told me". Provides evidence to cover-ups, coups staged by the CIA, etc.

The downing Street Memo, and the New Orleans Tapes all got my back... wheres your tapes... please provide a source. (as in a site)

QUOTE

People got to make money, stop crying cause you can't get a job.

Another assumption and "insult"

QUOTE

I support the killing/slaughtering/murdering/(Insert what ever death means to you) of people who: Specifically target civilians in other countries (UK, America, etc)

And thats why your no better then they. Owned.

QUOTE

I support the imprisonment of these people if captured and I support throwing away the key and/or execution of these individuals. I do not tolerate their existance.

They don't tolerate people who kill or WILL kill, such as you. I order your execution. As I have said before: "Why must we kill people who kill people to prove that killing people is wrong?" And that is why you failed at being a human being.

QUOTE

No Euro, you have not told me/proved to me about the tortures of Gitmo, you only fall back on Abu, which is in Iraq. Provide me something a little closer to home, maybe Cuba?

I don't remember using Abu in my last post... strange... I fall back on the SAME evidence Bush used for Iraq... "they aren't letting us in so they must be guilty." UN inspectors aren't allowed to interview terrorists because "they are trained to give false information". Strange, I guess the government has a lot in common with the terrorists after all. Its called "the process of dehumanization".

LASTLY: You call it leftist crap-o-la... ya know what, I'll do what you do... copy.
Further insulting me proves your running out of legit arguements and must fall back on rightist crap-o-la

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-08 at 20:22:39

LoL x1 Did I say they ONLY target civilian targets? You did quote me didn't you? Euro, they attacked American civilians on 9/11 freely, we went after them, WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO KILL? Your ignorance on this topic of terrorism is outstanding.

Also the majorty if not all of those civ. deaths are from THE TERRORISTS. They just bombed Iraqi services and holy sites trying to spark a civil war. Don't tell me thats not targeting civilians.

So I have failed at being a human for supporting killing another human being who kills civilians for a god that you don't believe in? (correct me if Im wrong in assuming that you don't believe in god)

So with that logic would a Bear fail at being a bear if it(he or she) kills another bear for protecting it's marked terroritory and/or babies?

thought so

LoL x2 we read chapters IN history class from that book "Lies My History Teacher Told me"

Euro stop while your behind haha

LoL x3 You still haven't proved or showed evidence of propaganda in fox/cnn.

LoL x4 http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Investigat...TC-RSSFeeds0312

Now you will read in it that Saddam said Iraq would not strike America itself.
From a political stand point Iraq did break 40 UN laws on Iraq and was hiding their programs from the UN. That enough is enough for war if Iraq did not submit, which they did not.

Again, Iraqi stock piles could/are being used by terrorists, similar to after the cold war where old USSR arms were stolen and sold in the hundreds of thousands.

LoL x5 I never said you used Abu in your last post, duh, but the fact remains you cannot and probably will not prove or show me what tortures we do at Gitmo.

I am better then them in every way possible.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-09 at 14:12:35

QUOTE

Also the majorty if not all of those civ. deaths are from THE TERRORISTS. They just bombed Iraqi services and holy sites trying to spark a civil war. Don't tell me thats not targeting civilians.

Definate proof not from the news or our military? ROCK-SOLID proof that majority are from terrorists. I believe most are from our bombings and/or us in another form. Yes they have killed civilians, but look at the math, our country has killed more civies in wars then great britain on record... how long have they been around and how long have we?
2nd PWN

QUOTE

So I have failed at being a human for supporting killing another human being who kills civilians for a god that you don't believe in? (correct me if Im wrong in assuming that you don't believe in god)

hmm isn't that an oxymoron.... killing for god who loves all and wants peace. I believe DL Hugley said it best... "Thats definately not Christian. The god I knew when I was younger was a loving caring god, not a greedy little killing illegitimate child."
Killing any man whether or not they killed is immoral, and unjust. You definately have your priorities messed big time. I don't believe in god and even I know thats not what your "god" wants.
3rd PWN

Actually no, a bear wouldn't fail because probably it wouldn't want to kill the bear unless it imediately threatened the baby, and if it could would probably just scare it away. Your comparison has abonymphomaniacely nothing to do with this.

Behind you say? Look whose talking you have provided no new evidence into why we should trust this "government" with a known history for lying to us, and doing whats in its own interest and not of the peoples.
4th PWN

LOL you provided all I needed with that site: "he adds that Iraq would never do such a thing. "This is coming, this story is coming but not from Iraq.""
So how did they threaten us?

"inspectors well into the 1990s" ummm we knew they had them in the 90's. But they didn't have them in the 21st century which is EXACTLY what I've been saying. Thank you for proving my point. Theres a LOLxinfinity at you.

QUOTE

That enough is enough for war if Iraq did not submit, which they did not.

Actually its not.... sorry. They said they were hiding them in the early 90's. but acording to you.... they had them now. but wait.... THEY DON'T!!

Here it comes... "Well he must have smuggled it out somehow while we attacked..." Ya and Georgie Bush is my uncle.
6th PWN (damn a lot)

QUOTE

LoL x5 I never said you used Abu in your last post, duh, but the fact remains you cannot and probably will not prove or show me what tortures we do at Gitmo.

Already been proven yet you keep using it as an example. ITs been stated on this site numerous times, you can look up torture and guantanamo bay on google. See how many come up with those.

Now heres why I don't trust the government:
1: Our assistance in the Shah's faction in Iran in desposing Prime Minister Mussadegh and returning the Shah to the Throne in 1953. (yet we considered them terrorists.)
2: Our role in bringing down the elected government of Guatemala in 1954.
3: our rigging of the 1957 elections in Lebanon, which entrenched the Christians on top and led to a Muslim revolt and civil war the next year.
4: our involvement in the assassination of Patrice Lumumba of Zaire in 1961.
5: our repeated attempts to murder premier Fidel Castro of Cuba and bring down his government by TERROR and SABOTAGE.
6: our role in bringing down the elected government of Chile in 1973.
7: Current wiretaps without warrents.
8: FBI wiretapped Martin Luther King Jr. and other civil rights activists, as well as not passing on the death threats against him. Sent him a sex tape of him (i'm guessing with another women) along with a note to commit suicide.
J Edgar Hoover along with Woodrow Wilson did everything in their power (including Woodrow vetoing a clause on racial equality in the covenent of league of nations.) to stop freedom to slaves.
9: Gathered intelligence on black activists rather then on the whites attacking them (Kind of like getting intel and infiltrating peace activists groups.)
10: We did in fact lie about flying over Russia. Clearly told the world we were not until a captured US airmen went on Russian TV.
11: Helen Keller wrote this "Our governments are not honest. They do not openly declare war on Russia and proclaim their reasons. They are fighting the Russian people half-secretly with the lie of democracy upon their lips."

In fact there are many more, will state them if you want. Our government is horrible.

As a last note. You are NOT better then them in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

hold a minute... didn't the christian crusaders believe they were better in every way to the muslims? Just a thought.

Oh also forgot to add this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Ba...ons_in_the_camp

They filed reports of abuse. Obviously they are terrorists because they are muslim and so the reports are untrue because America is always right and never wrong. [sarcasm]

"What did you learn in school today dear little boy of mine?
I learned our government must be strong.
It's always right and never wrong...
Thats what I learned in school."
-Song by Tom Paxton, 1963

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Middle_Finger on 2006-03-09 at 15:24:19

I red most of this discussion, & 1 thing annoys me... Has anybody here been in war, or atleast in some small local conflicts ? I THINK NOT (i also wasn't) ! & PRAY GOD THAT U WONT BE !!!!! Your romantic discussions: "i will be on the side of people, i will be on the side of justice" is a bit...unreal. People who were in war say: "you have balls untill u are behind the front line, but when a tank approaches you, & a fiew bombs explode near you, the only thing that's left in you is instinct. & you dont care about "demorracy", or "justice" you just want to survive. & the only reason why you're killig again next day is HATERED (i'm not sure if that word is correct) you hate your enemy, that killed your best friend yesterday".
& nevermind waht goal a revolution has, if you'r a soldier, nevermind on wich side, YOU WILL ALLWAYS BE A PUPPET in someone's hands. & they will forget you after you did you're job. That is the truth about any war. Some people look at war like HollyWood shows them. That is quite sad, becawse people must know waht is REAL WAR, not images in your box, called TV so people don't go to war saying "let's kick some ass, Yeeeha !!!"...
.......

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Aikanaro on 2006-03-09 at 16:13:56

QUOTE(Euro @ Mar 9 2006, 02:12 PM)

Actually you basicly did say they only target

Now heres why I don't trust the government:
1: Our assistance in the Shah's faction in Iran in desposing Prime Minister Mussadegh and returning the Shah to the Throne in 1953. (yet we considered them terrorists.)
2: Our role in bringing down the elected government of Guatemala in 1954.
3: our rigging of the 1957 elections in Lebanon, which entrenched the Christians on top and led to a Muslim revolt and civil war the next year.
4: our involvement in the assassination of Patrice Lumumba of Zaire in 1961.
5: our repeated attempts to murder premier Fidel Castro of Cuba and bring down his government by TERROR and SABOTAGE.
6: our role in bringing down the elected government of Chile in 1973.
7: Current wiretaps without warrents.
8: FBI wiretapped Martin Luther King Jr. and other civil rights activists, as well as not passing on the death threats against him. Sent him a sex tape of him (i'm guessing with another women) along with a note to commit suicide.
J Edgar Hoover along with Woodrow Wilson did everything in their power (including Woodrow vetoing a clause on racial equality in the covenent of league of nations.) to stop freedom to slaves.
9: Gathered intelligence on black activists rather then on the whites attacking them (Kind of like getting intel and infiltrating peace activists groups.)
10: We did in fact lie about flying over Russia. Clearly told the world we were not until a captured US airmen went on Russian TV.
11: Helen Keller wrote this "Our governments are not honest. They do not openly declare war on Russia and proclaim their reasons. They are fighting the Russian people half-secretly with the lie of democracy upon their lips."

[right][snapback]442062[/snapback][/right]

Indeed, theres much more. However, you may also want to add the recent event in Haiti. Aristide was elected democratically. However, the United States did a *Coup* d'etat there too. They Kidnapped him while he was still in his session.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-10 at 00:19:52

QUOTE(Euro @ Mar 9 2006, 11:12 AM)

Actually you basicly did say they only target civilians. "Civilian Targeting" hmmm.
BTW do you ever quit copying me and kellimus? I mean how many times have we told you of your ignorance. Or quoted "Ignorance is bliss." Keep reading, I will tell you why I don't trust the government.
1st PWN
Definate proof not from the news or our military? ROCK-SOLID proof that majority are from terrorists. I believe most are from our bombings and/or us in another form. Yes they have killed civilians, but look at the math, our country has killed more civies in wars then great britain on record... how long have they been around and how long have we?
2nd PWN
hmm isn't that an oxymoron.... killing for god who loves all and wants peace. I believe DL Hugley said it best... "Thats definately not Christian. The god I knew when I was younger was a loving caring god, not a greedy little killing illegitimate child."
Killing any man whether or not they killed is immoral, and unjust. You definately have your priorities messed big time. I don't believe in god and even I know thats not what your "god" wants.
3rd PWN

Actually no, a bear wouldn't fail because probably it wouldn't want to kill the bear unless it imediately threatened the baby, and if it could would probably just scare it away. Your comparison has abonymphomaniacely nothing to do with this.

Behind you say? Look whose talking you have provided no new evidence into why we should trust this "government" with a known history for lying to us, and doing whats in its own interest and not of the peoples.
4th PWN

LOL you provided all I needed with that site: "he adds that Iraq would never do such a thing. "This is coming, this story is coming but not from Iraq.""
So how did they threaten us?

"inspectors well into the 1990s" ummm we knew they had them in the 90's. But they didn't have them in the 21st century which is EXACTLY what I've been saying. Thank you for proving my point. Theres a LOLxinfinity at you.
Actually its not.... sorry. They said they were hiding them in the early 90's. but acording to you.... they had them now. but wait.... THEY DON'T!!

Here it comes... "Well he must have smuggled it out somehow while we attacked..." Ya and Georgie Bush is my uncle.
6th PWN (damn a lot)

Already been proven yet you keep using it as an example. ITs been stated on this site numerous times, you can look up torture and guantanamo bay on google. See how many come up with those.

Now heres why I don't trust the government:
1: Our assistance in the Shah's faction in Iran in desposing Prime Minister Mussadegh and returning the Shah to the Throne in 1953. (yet we considered them terrorists.)
2: Our role in bringing down the elected government of Guatemala in 1954.
3: our rigging of the 1957 elections in Lebanon, which entrenched the Christians on top and led to a Muslim revolt and civil war the next year.
4: our involvement in the assassination of Patrice Lumumba of Zaire in 1961.
5: our repeated attempts to murder premier Fidel Castro of Cuba and bring down his government by TERROR and SABOTAGE.
6: our role in bringing down the elected government of Chile in 1973.
7: Current wiretaps without warrents.
8: FBI wiretapped Martin Luther King Jr. and other civil rights activists, as well as not passing on the death threats against him. Sent him a sex tape of him (i'm guessing with another women) along with a note to commit suicide.
J Edgar Hoover along with Woodrow Wilson did everything in their power (including Woodrow vetoing a clause on racial equality in the covenent of league of nations.) to stop freedom to slaves.
9: Gathered intelligence on black activists rather then on the whites attacking them (Kind of like getting intel and infiltrating peace activists groups.)
10: We did in fact lie about flying over Russia. Clearly told the world we were not until a captured US airmen went on Russian TV.
11: Helen Keller wrote this "Our governments are not honest. They do not openly declare war on Russia and proclaim their reasons. They are fighting the Russian people half-secretly with the lie of democracy upon their lips."

In fact there are many more, will state them if you want. Our government is horrible.

As a last note. You are NOT better then them in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

hold a minute... didn't the christian crusaders believe they were better in every way to the muslims? Just a thought.

Oh also forgot to add this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Ba...ons_in_the_camp

They filed reports of abuse. Obviously they are terrorists because they are muslim and so the reports are untrue because America is always right and never wrong. [sarcasm]

"What did you learn in school today dear little boy of mine?
I learned our government must be strong.
It's always right and never wrong...
Thats what I learned in school."
-Song by Tom Paxton, 1963
[right][snapback]442062[/snapback][/right]

Soooo basically all I got from this thread is:

Bears don't protect their terroritory becuase they don't want to kill other bears.

LOL, a Gitmo prisoner is telling reporters he doesn't like Gitmo.... wait they are suppose to say that! read "They Just Don't Get It" which contains a captured al quada training manuel, which lol tells the recruite that if he is captured that we will treat him nicely and that he should try and start prison revolts and try and get in contact with the press....

..... sounds exactly like what they are doing.

so basically what I conclude from your post is A) your a farkin smart guy for still living in the US and B) Your ENTIRE post is opinion and not fact. I, in fact, speak only in fact, unless I say correct me if Im wrong here.

And wow do you patent your lines? I don't copy your liberal crap, its like telling a person not to say "Hello my name is...." becuase you said it first.

And when I say their god, I mean the terrorists are fighting in the name of ALLAH, which is indeed the same god as christians but I don't see any American soldiers fighting for Judah.

You obviously do not know what we are doing in the middle east.

Article: Lol I can't believe you actually quoted the reporter "Iraq would never do such a thing" which is the reporter speaking and not Saddam. And yes Saddam is a threat, again selling weapons munitions, which is happening but you again refuse to see that.

Man you are so frustrating becuase you are drunk with the liberal hatred fueled point of view.

I on the other hand are just defending whats right.

I wonder how so many people are "blind" to your point of view to keep not electing liberals and far left democrats. I geuss they are all stupid and you should rule the world.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-10 at 23:41:18

QUOTE

I on the other hand are just defending whats right.

Thats a bullshiz opinionated statement. Whats right is defending the peopls rights. Therefore since your obviously against them. You are defending whats wrong. You support the capitalistic system thats uses extortion of the poor to make the rich richer. You support the supression of our privacy civil rights with the patriot act.

You can call me liberal all you want, that does not change the fact the government is not the friend of the people. It is out for 2 things, and 2 things only: Money.... and Power.

They say the terrorists hate us for our "freedom"... then why hasen't Amsterdam been attacked, or any other free nation such as those. Only ones that have openly attacked islam. We have slaughtered millions. In the words of Guns'N'Roses:

"My hands are tied
The billions shift from side to side
And the wars go on with brainwashed pride
For the love of God and our human rights
And all these things are swept aside
By bloody hands time can't deny
And are washed away by your genocide
And history hides the lies of our civil wars

D'you wear a black armband
When they shot the man
Who said "Peace could last forever"
And in my first memories
They shot Kennedy
I went numb when I learned to see
So I never fell for Vietnam
We got the wall of D.C. to remind us all
That you can't trust freedom
When it's not in your hands
When everybody's fightin'
For their promised land"

You my friend, are full of brainwashed pride.

Freedom is not given... it must be taken.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-11 at 13:26:11

QUOTE(Euro @ Mar 10 2006, 08:40 PM)

if you were to poll the american people you would see a majprity have liberal views.
How is my ENTIRE post opinion and yours fact. When indeed tis not. Your saying the coups the CIA/FBI have done, the assassinations we have done, the flying over russia, the bold faced lies we have told to the public.... all the infiltration of PEACEFUL protestors by police. and you wonder why I have no faith in our government. How the FBI tried to destroy the civil rights movement... all of this is fact. You can look this up. Every one of those reasons listed above... with the coups... is fact. Our government has a history of lies, deciet, things considered treason by the constitution... yet all that always goes down the memory hole. People always wonder how the people of Germany, Japan, Iran, and other totalarian governmental countries sat around and did nothing while everything happened. They wonder why they didn't fight, stand up and say something. We have our answer. Patriotism... Nationalism.... with, as Helen Keller once stated, "fighting half-secret wars against the people with the lie of democracy upon their lips."
Thats a bullshiz opinionated statement. Whats right is defending the peopls rights. Therefore since your obviously against them. You are defending whats wrong. You support the capitalistic system thats uses extortion of the poor to make the rich richer. You support the supression of our privacy civil rights with the patriot act.

You can call me liberal all you want, that does not change the fact the government is not the friend of the people. It is out for 2 things, and 2 things only: Money.... and Power.

They say the terrorists hate us for our "freedom"... then why hasen't Amsterdam been attacked, or any other free nation such as those. Only ones that have openly attacked islam. We have slaughtered millions. In the words of Guns'N'Roses:

"My hands are tied
The billions shift from side to side
And the wars go on with brainwashed pride
For the love of God and our human rights
And all these things are swept aside
By bloody hands time can't deny
And are washed away by your genocide
And history hides the lies of our civil wars

D'you wear a black armband
When they shot the man
Who said "Peace could last forever"
And in my first memories
They shot Kennedy
I went numb when I learned to see
So I never fell for Vietnam
We got the wall of D.C. to remind us all
That you can't trust freedom
When it's not in your hands
When everybody's fightin'
For their promised land"

You my friend, are full of brainwashed pride.

Freedom is not given... it must be taken.
[right][snapback]443142[/snapback][/right]

Euro, other governments are NO DIFFERENT.

Those things are what governments DO. We supported the taliban to stop communism!!!! We do things in OUR favor or our allies. I geuss if money and power is all we care about then we shouldn't be supporting Israel anymore, I mean we don't want then powerful with our equipment.

If the government only cares about money and power then why are they providing: Civil transportation, schools, public services etc...

If all they want is money and power then they would cut those programs to keep that money.

You see the government as one sole being, its not and our system protects us from that.

I support Capitalism, why should anyone stop me from making money as long as what I do is legal? Stop complaining about rich people, they contribute more to society and they get such a bad rap for no reason. I am surrounded by these so called "bad people" in the city that I live and all I see is loving caring individuals who donate a crap load (one man donated 2,000+ dollars out of his own money to a fund raiser for the boys and girls club). Im sorry Euro I just don't see these people as evil and "keepin the poor, poor" when they do so many selfless things.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-12 at 02:11:26

hmm.. other governments do it so that makes it good? We call ourselves a great nation... is that some kind of rebuttle because all I could see there was a desperate plea for a good comeback. You support capitalism so long as its legal? What hitler did in Germany was legal. Was it right? No.

Why is the government granting those things? Because we're sheep. You need to give the sheep things from time to time to keep them happy and unawares their about to have their coats shaved from them.

The government does not protect us. I believe they said that to the japanese during WW2. "Your being kept here to keep you safe...." Yet the guns pointed inwards not outwards. We supported a terrorist organization to stop communism? Communism isn't bad. Why should we stop the choices of other countries by using terror and sabetoge... amazing how its ok when we do it yet its horrible unforgivable acts when they do it. Thats what we call "State-sponsored Terrorism".

Your argument is pathetic and I believe this discussion is over. You have lost. G'day. Checkmate.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-12 at 10:07:13

QUOTE(Euro @ Mar 11 2006, 11:11 PM)

Why?? Why support them? Are you kidding me? Russia and America were RIVALS, Russia was taking over countries around themselfs. We were trying to stop Russian imperialism with out causing WW3. Grow a fraking brain and stop thinking about yourself. We saved lifes in those acts....

My agruement is pathetic becuase I disagree with you? You haven't rebutted or taken into acount any of my arguements.

You:

Can't prove CNN or Fox are propaganda machines or even provide an example.

Didn't know about the 12 hours of tapes, which proved Saddam broke over 40 UN laws on him.

Think the government is one unit, when it is really many, which many agree with your point of view and thats the American system and it works.

Hitler didn't do anything legal. He was elected into government, but he wasn't the leader. When the leader of Germany died, Hitler and his group of thugs took control over the government fast and Hitler declared HIMSELF furhr before anyone could do anything about it. Thats the bare and bones of that story, but there are obviously more details then that (Source: The Complete History of WW2 DVD)

The list goes on.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-12 at 12:32:38

QUOTE

Actually I'm thinking about the people, your the one thinking about a) yourself b) bush or c) the rich. Tell me who did we save? Now tell me who did we kill. Imagine this... if we had not trained bin ladin and the taliban and al-CIAda, would 9-11 still of took place without them having training? Possibly not. We have supported many terroristic organizations for our own ends which gets people killed. We did not save peoples lives, we used them.

Ok no I said your argument was pathetic. That last post was horrible and pathetic. I have so far 3-4 people saying the same with me.

I know the government is many. Nice assumtion again.

I simply said its a propaganda machine. In fact its true. Propaganda can be anything that helps one party or another. the O-Reilly Factor is extremely bias against leftists. Hanity and Colmes is too.

Actually I knew about them but had never seen them. They had nothing to do with 2001 9-11, they had nothing to do with the nuclear dispute in 2002-3, so what does it matter. They should of done something back when the laws were being violated. That doesn't help your argument at all.

Ever heard of the white house memo? Oh you know, theo ne where bush basicly says that we're going to war with saddam whether the diplomatic efforts worked or not. Where he plainly says he wants to dress warplanes with the UN colors and symbol and fly them over Iraq. If he shoots at even one, we attack. hmmm isn't that illegal?

Also, ya what Hitler did was completely legal. Even Martin Luther King Jr. says so. In fact his statement: "We must always remember, that what Hitler did in Germany... was legal!"
hmm I wonder if Germany had won... would you still be calling them thugs? Of course not. History books are always bias against the losers. hmm a DVD told you.. Well i'm sorry, you lose. I have about 40 books backing me. His declaration was legal... why? Because he did the same thing Bush did. Had a "terroristic act" commited, declared war on the Polish, conquered Europe. All legal by the Nazi Germany laws. Don't ever tell me it wasn't legal in Germany. Because it all was. The murders were legal, the exclusion of the jews was legal, and of course Bush's.... er hmm... Himmlers Gestapo was legal.

Obviously the American system doesn't work or there would be no protestors, and no crime. In fact theres another quote: "If laws worked, their would be no crime."

Again, singing the same old song with the same pathetic argument. G'day.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-12 at 13:30:35

QUOTE(Euro @ Mar 12 2006, 09:32 AM)

Hahah do you know any of the laws that were on Germany at the time? You know nothing if you thought what Germany did was legal. I would also think Discovery channel DVDs would be a little more accurate then your bais brain.

Your head is a machine, it only thinks and does things one way. ANYTHING good or bad about our government, doesn't matter, your hate filled agenda completely renders you incapable of reasonable thought. Even good things (stopping imperialism) that our government does is still bad. You have double standards with the American government and you have just shown it to me now. America invading Iraq with good intentions = bad. Russia invading Aphganistan with bad intentions = good.

Im sorry I don't see your twisted logic with that arguement. Tell me what Gestapo we have? None, what Hitler did was completely illegal and Europeans let it happen. They did nothing when Germany sent it's Panzers in the the Rhineland (no military zone). They did nothing when Germany invaded Poland and other states. They did nothing when Germany build up it's arms and air craft and tanks (extreme limits were put on German army size).

Actually it does, they(Iraq) were and 2000+ still breaking laws, Im sorry we are the only country with balls to inforce laws. France wasn't going to do anything, their 'corporations' were selling goods and arms to Iraq. Other countries too. Double standard again.

Saving lives = stoppping WW3. If American army units were fighitng in Aphganistan, then you could just say hello WW3. 9/11 would have happened anyhow, we only trained them how to shoot the weapons we gave them -.-. Osoma knew what he was doing.

@Government Assumption: I came to that conclusion when you repeated many times about how our goverment is turning tyranical in this thread and others and/or relating to Nazi germany. Im telling you it can't becuase it doesn't operate as one single unit. Theres many different departments which make it so not one man can rule. Our system of government protects us from tyranical leadership.

Euro, just stop now....

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-12 at 14:17:13

QUOTE

LOL your entire post is opinion and assumptions. Your trying to dehumanize me to try to "prove your point". You've already lost and you know it. Thats why your calling me a "machine". BTW I got a newcomer.... that makes 5 people who believe you are twisted.

We didn't save lives by training the taliban, we simply trained people in the art of terror and sabetoge to kill people to force them to leave. I can say i'm a bit bias but you sir are also bias. Is their an echo in here or something? Osama was FULLY trained by us. Before we trained him he knew nothing of war. We trained him in the art of it. So quit assuming he "knew what he was doing". Read farkin history, even his family said he was innocent before fighting in afghanistan.

BTW, obviously your picking and choosing because I said I have facts from 40+ books against your 1 DVD. So stfu and read.

Actually yes I do know of nazi germanyy's laws. They legalized the exclusion of jews by taking their businesses. They authorized the mass killing "or ethnic cleansing" of the jews. Since you happen to believe everything that has a happy name is obviously a good thing, then that sounds good to you doesn't it.

What hitler did was legal in Germany. Just because its illegal here doesn't mean it wasn't there dipshiz. He was completely in his legal right to do all those things.

Let me see, you insulted and used no fact practically your whole post.... Ladies and Gentlemen, Chris has finally lost. His arguments hold no water and he resorts to insults to try to fill a post!

I believe you have twisted logic... "I support the killing of people" "i support bombing peoples homes" "I support spying on our own citizens!" blah blah... blah.

Your morals are completely wrong and you call yourself a christian... shame on you and shame on your god if he allows this.

Our system of government was made to protect us from tyrannical leaderships but it is not flawless. All anyone needs to do is get a majority of their people into the senate, house, and congress and they have the government... oh wait.. doesn't Bush have a republican majority at his every whim?!?!?

Our gestapo is called the NSA. "A Rose by any other name would smell just as sweet." Who knows what else they have done. The FBI/CIA have pulled numerous terroristic acts as decribed in an earlier post in this thread.

You say we were stopping imperialism? What about ours? Imperialism is not just military force influence its also forcing political influence... such as we are doing in the Middle-East and Latin America.

Why do we help Isreal? hmm I believe that connects with the imperialism influence deal in the mid-east.

Assumptions, assumptions... assumptions. Is that all you ever use? I never said russia invading afghanistan was good. If I did please quote it. I simply said our training of terrorist organizations is bad. You my friend... have double standards and bad sight if you actually read words not even on the screen. Either that or your psyhco..... courts still out on that one.

We didn't go in there to enforce shiz. Even the white house memo states this... hmm who doesn't know whats going on now? Bush clearly states he wants a regime change, and needed a reason to justify it. So they went over possible ideas and decided to use the WMD thing. So don't tell me we went in there with good intentions. We went in there for our own needs and not the needs of those people. Oil. Now don't even use that old excuse "Well then why re prices so high?" Because A) The oil companies made a record amount of cash. Plus who is in charge of Haliburton.... I'll let you guess that one.

G'day Brainwashed "friend" of mine.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-15 at 21:59:47

QUOTE(Euro @ Mar 12 2006, 11:16 AM)

lol where are is my double standard?

@Germany: IT WAS EUROPEAN LAW ON THEM at the end of WW1. omg Euro, AGAIN, just stop.

Hahah nice, taking MY word "Assumptions" nice very nice.

@Oil: Where is our oil we are taking? Tell me where is it? We don't even have enough refineries for all that oil we are taking, so tell me where this oil is? Oh wait you can't.

My morals are wrong? "Euro, soft on terrorists, hard on abortions" mmm look in the mirror.

Wait so your entire post was an insult on me becuase I insulted you? I thought two wrongs don't make a right.

@Russia/Aphganistan: For one, we never suspected them of going to be terrorists. No one back then expected a 9/11 attack. We did how ever have assumptions and good evidence in the 90s, but not the early 80s etc.

Your 40+ books? Please name, also its not 1 DVD, try 20. Box set. If your going to tell me the discovery channel is wrong then you sir have completely lost all reliablity in this debate.

We help Israel becuase we are allies with them, allies for a long time....

You have no evidence for your Gestapo NSA comparison, and comparing the two is down right sad.

Again, you spun what I have said into your own arguement that fits you. I said, and only said this "I support the killing of terrorists etc..." or to that point. I never said bombing of homes or anything like that. Spin, all spin.

My whole arguement is fact, any idiot can find that out them selves and is commen knowledge of the higher intelligence.

@Saving lives: Are you kidding me? Preventing a WW3 isn't saving lives? Dude, I have lost all faith in your reasoning.

Your whole upper post just proves my point even more:

You are incapable of reasonable debate. You have never once said "Ok that could be a possibility"

And don't say I haven't done that either, becuase I have, on the Gitmo closing thread.

ADDITION:
owned

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-18 at 00:08:33

LOL at least when I say owned... i actually do.

When did I ever say what he did in EUROPE was legal. I said what he did in GERMANY was legal. and Its true. Again... words in my mouth. OWNED.

How is it your word? You barely use it. At least when I say you took my words I say them not just on occasion. OWNED x2

How can you even say that we're not taking oil. Oh thats right.... we went there because "We wanted to rid the world of hate and terror, to provide freedom for all. even though we have helped numerous terrorists in their endevors and have given weapons of mass destruction to other nations, and continually surpress the rights of the people." Great outlook... [/sarcasm]
As stated earlier... Who owns haliburton and is making a killing (no pun intended)?

Actually yes your morals are horrible. You support ANY type of killing. That right there is wrong. Who said I'm soft on terrorists? Not I. I simply said torture is wrong and should not even be a variable. Of course your BIAS mind can't see what I said, instead you put words in my mouth. Hard on abortions? When did I even talk about that? Well now that its brought up, I think that the only people that should be allowed to abort are the ones who will die from pregnancy and/or if its rape. Of course you had to add words once more into my mouth.
OWNED to the max!

No one suspected a 9/11 attack... your right... only the NUMEROUS warnings and threats to our governments of an impending terrorist attack and the fact that NORAD practices hijacked plane drills only months prior... More then 60% of NY believes the white House had fore knowledge of 9/11 and made a concious choice not to do anything. But of course, since they are against your beloved f**k buddy (bush) they must be wrong and unintelligent. (Speaking of that... you might want to brush up on spelling.)
OWNED.

Talking about reliability... I believe a lot of people already have lost that in you. You sir, are not liked much. Hmm to name a few, the magazines/books for the 60th aniversary. Battles of World War 2. Men of Normandy. Day of Infamy. Just to name a few.

We help isreal because its the gateway into the middle-east. Oh thats right... "we're protecting the world and we must bring freedom to the middle-east and Isreal is the first step." Do you really believe half the bull-shiz you spout?

Actually none of the comparison is sad at all. Its natural to compare two entities that happen to have similar actions. Of course you have no argument so you must make a sentence to look as if you tried to counter it.

As said earlier.. supporting the killing of any living human being is morally wrong. But of course your christian hypocrisy tells you otherwise. What was the messege the popes said during the crusades... "Kill the infidels and you will go to heaven" was it? Saying your a true christian yet support killing is a bit of an oxymoron.

Lol you say you have lost all faith in my reasoning? I believe me and many others lost faith in yours long ago.

Pray tell... how did the training of terrorists to use terror and sabetoge to kill people stopping WW3? You still haven't said. What was so important in afghanistan that we needed to fight them at all? I know of the cold war, but to fight them... Ever wonder why many 3rd world nations went to communism? Not because they were forced to (unless they were one of the conquered ones) but because we did such a half-assed job there that they had no where else to turn to. Because of our meddeling, we have ruined the lives of millions if not billions, we have ruined countries, left them in poverty... why? Greed. Every war has an economic value.

I have proved no point of yours and without stating exactly what, you just use vague sentences to act as if I did. Actually you didn't on the gitmo closing thread...
OWNED.

Wheres ARB and MA when ya need them.

One last question... not really having to do with this whole discussion, but answer nonetheless. Do you think columbus was a good person. Honorable?

P.S. You lied. You said your entire posts(s) are all fact, yet I see some opinion in there. I guess you take your opinions for fact too. Figures. I have to say that 80-85% of my posts are fact and rest opinions/possiblities.

ADDITION:

QUOTE

we never suspected them of going to be terrorists.

Fact huh...?
Thats why they were on the terrorist warning lists.. and we trained them to be terrorists, and that we classified the taliban and al-CIAda as terrorists before 9-11, we just never took up on it till after the burning of the reichstag.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Arbitrary on 2006-03-18 at 00:26:41

A characteristic of Chris and his brethren in respect to this sort of topic is that the Republican party's strategy for some forty years now has been to accuse the media of liberal bias constantly, which has led to an imbalance in national coverage of just about anything. This has led to generally neutral reporters and show hosts being portrayed as the liberal, and thus it's deemed necessary to have a conservative guest to balance this out. Because of this, it's always conservatives who are on TV getting face time, speaking to easily-swayed Americans.

Now then, Chris, you appear to be one of those people who is a 'stolid patriot' sort. Let us suppose that you think we should take all possible measures to ensure 'national security'? For the record, there is no such thing as security, much less national security. There are 300,000,000 people in the United States. You have a significantly greater chance of dying in a lawnmower accident than dying to a 'terrorist attack.'

The real terrorists here are the Bush administration. They fight the War of Terror. Every policy since 9/11, and perhaps even before, has been driven by manipulation of fear. Fear of some guy with a beard named Bin Laden, fear of chemical weapons, fear of what? As far as I'm concerned the government undertook the 9/11 'attacks' by itself to use it as a springboard to do whatever they wished. Surveillance tapes at the Pentagon? Snatched. Rubble from the WTC towers? Shipped off and obliterated within weeks. Covering their tracks.

To reiterate, there is no such thing as security. There is the feeling, the notion of security, and then there is rational behavior. Freaking out over national security is not rational behavior.

How I sorely wish for my state motto to be manifest.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-18 at 03:21:25

Little thing called 'Manifest Destiny' arb... Chris has it as well as the Bush Administration. I've said the same in many posts about fear and a burning of the reichstag but he just doesn't seem to put 2 and 2 together... I'm guessing he failed math... I know he did spelling lol. I mean, as you said, this War on Freedom... er... War on Terror is all about fear, power, and not getting rid of tyranny's but to install one.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by DarK on 2006-03-18 at 05:35:01

Well I am not realy American as most of the ppl here but if I would be.. I would most likely hide if its a meaningless revolution.. But if it realy is something that could change the faith of the world I would support the people.. Cuz the government is always corrupted! And EVIL! Lol.

ADDITION:
Ahh sry I didnt notice the far more serious hmm debate... And apologies for the double post delete the upper one if needed or if it requires.. Anyway I realy didnt have the mood to read about 20 big posts I just saw this is about terrorism? And law well seeing as I dont have the mood to fully read what is going on lol.. Il just post about terrorism and a bit more..

''I fear the most undemocratic way of rule, is democracy''

Which in todays world seems to be very much so.. What il say in this post are my views not the worlds..

I belive the war on Iraq, terrorism and all that is 90% all a huge lie.. USA has had over 5 conflicts in the past 25 Years.. Afghanistan.. Iraq and so on.. Bush somewhere in 2001 or 2002 said himself that Iraq does not have the capability or ever will have the capability of producing weapons of mass destruction.. Also since USA did invade Iraq many other countries are having huge problems Jordania for example one of the many countries who depend on Oil import.. Jordania is suffering greatly because they cant get cheap oil from Iraq anymore.. Also I saw a little talk about 9/11.. It has been proved that Bush was warned about a possible attack but he did nothing.. Also the great nation shiz I dont mean to be rude but alot of people who are from USA, who I have argued with on b.net seem to call me some peace loving, gay marriage supporting, stupid, European bush.. Now okey? When they cant even find the country I live on a map thats nice.. And what ive noticed in alot of channels and so on where there start some kind of arguements lol about Canada there comes the talk about how USA will 'pwn' if they want to and so on.. Ive had some 15 year old kids call the country I live in a shizhole which I dont appreciate I may live in a small country but this farking small country has got its freedom back even though they sold it to the farking European Alliance.. But back to terrorism I dont support terrorism no.. But I dont belive that every farking terrorist comes out of Iraq.. Also I feel.. Sick about how most people from USA think about the war on Iraq.. One day I happend to see a show, The Awful truth Micheal Moore.. Where he did Saddam Oil, sold cheap oil to people for food.. Now I dont remember was this before the war or not.. But I do remember one man in a car said to Moore, after Moore said this food is for the children in Iraq, ''Well wont they you know train those little kids to terrorists and so on'' ( Something like that ) Anyway in Iraq averegely 5000 children die in a day.. To hunger and landmines those are the 2 main causes.. Also one day I happend to see a movie the 9/11 movie also made by Moore.. Where I saw those kids in the tanks who were maybe 18 or something.. I have nothing against Americans.. But it is always so that the ignorants and well idiots stand out from crowds.. And now I make it to the patriot act.. I do belive in some kind of human rights such as I dont support the death penalty I belive noone has the right to take someones life.. I find the Bush Administradion.. To be well as 99% of governments evil, corrupted and so on.. Politics dont support the people they support campaign money that means business men.. And yes the 'War on Terrorism' is all about power, oil, fear, manipulation.. But lets be clear.. We live in a modern world.. Scandals, politics, media, wars.. It also seems to me that weve gone back 800 years in time, where money could 'delete' any sin such as murder.. These days it seems we only have to buy a court? Anyway if I keep tpying I will go even more off topic lol.. I hope some1 had the patience to read this.. -.-

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-18 at 14:03:46

QUOTE(Euro @ Mar 17 2006, 09:08 PM)

I like the whole Ownedx2 thing, didn't you take that from me from the lolx2? hypocrite.

How can you say we are? There is absolutely NO proof for your statement. Prove to me we are taking their oil. Prove it.

I don't support any type of killing. I support the killing of terrorists, which my definition I have already explained. And that whole paragraph has nothing to so with the topic at hand.

OMG Euro, I said at the THAT time (arg early 80s) no one suspected an attack on 9/11. Man I even explained to you when there were predictions, but again you spun my arguement so you could counter it.

Lol euro, since when is debating a popularity event. "Like mmm like every one hates you haha like"

@Stopping WW3: USSR IMPERIALISM was spreading. USSR begins to invade Aphganistan, America does not want USSR to TAKE OVER other countries. If the USA sent in US Army personel (in the thousands) into the area to fight the USSR directly that would cause USA vrs. USSR causing WW3. Thats why we didn't want that, we sent in men to train the locals to fight the USSR forces. Some of those locals happen to terrorists, or future terrorists. The locals fight off the USSR's forces and USSR IMPERIALISM is stopped. Now tell me where America went wrong in this factual history lesson.

Provide proof on the comparison, please. Prove that the two factions are operating the same.

Columbus sucked, he wiped out entire islands full of villagers and enslaved many more. I have read many chapters have that book, we have to in our Histoy class, which reminds me that my history teacher reminds me of you....

How did I lie? I have fact, then commentary supporting that fact. Its like writing in the 2 chunk paragraph form, you know what that is right?

We help Israel becuase they are our ally, AND HAVE BEEN FOR A VERY LONG TIME. How would you feel if one of your more powerful allies decided to just stop supporting you? That would suck...

So basically I can see Euro, that you act about 12 with the whole "OWNED TO ZE MAX WTF HAX"

And yes that was a very nice off topic sentence I just wrote.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lord_Agamemnon(MM) on 2006-03-18 at 14:18:58

On the original topic, I say that I would support the government. Not that I hold any particular affection for the current leaders; I would probably support them if the Democrats were in power. My reason is this:
The people revolt. They set up a new government, claiming that it will be better than the old one, with equality for all, justice, prosperity, etc. It soon deteriorates into an absolute dictatorship. Cases in point: Cuba, France in the 1790's, and Russia in the early 1900's. I prefer democracy, where the people have at least some say in matters of state, to dictatorship.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-18 at 15:18:53

QUOTE

After the league Nationa met after WW1, many laws were put on Germany so that another war would not happen. Hitler broke almost EVERY single one of those laws to rise Germany to power. Yeah sure thats legal, oh wait Iraq did the same thing ermm.gif

I like the whole Ownedx2 thing, didn't you take that from me from the lolx2? hypocrite.

How can you say we are? There is absolutely NO proof for your statement. Prove to me we are taking their oil. Prove it.

I don't support any type of killing. I support the killing of terrorists, which my definition I have already explained. And that whole paragraph has nothing to so with the topic at hand.

OMG Euro, I said at the THAT time (arg early 80s) no one suspected an attack on 9/11. Man I even explained to you when there were predictions, but again you spun my arguement so you could counter it.

Lol euro, since when is debating a popularity event. "Like mmm like every one hates you haha like"

@Stopping WW3: USSR IMPERIALISM was spreading. USSR begins to invade Aphganistan, America does not want USSR to TAKE OVER other countries. If the USA sent in US Army personel (in the thousands) into the area to fight the USSR directly that would cause USA vrs. USSR causing WW3. Thats why we didn't want that, we sent in men to train the locals to fight the USSR forces. Some of those locals happen to terrorists, or future terrorists. The locals fight off the USSR's forces and USSR IMPERIALISM is stopped. Now tell me where America went wrong in this factual history lesson.

Provide proof on the comparison, please. Prove that the two factions are operating the same.

Columbus sucked, he wiped out entire islands full of villagers and enslaved many more. I have read many chapters have that book, we have to in our Histoy class, which reminds me that my history teacher reminds me of you....

How did I lie? I have fact, then commentary supporting that fact. Its like writing in the 2 chunk paragraph form, you know what that is right?

We help Israel becuase they are our ally, AND HAVE BEEN FOR A VERY LONG TIME. How would you feel if one of your more powerful allies decided to just stop supporting you? That would suck...

So basically I can see Euro, that you act about 12 with the whole "OWNED TO ZE MAX WTF HAX"

And yes that was a very nice off topic sentence I just wrote.

No shiz about the treaty of varsailles. I said german law. Those were not german internal laws. They were world reparations. no army over 100,000 etc. IF you want to argue against martin luther king.. be my guest. You already lost against him. He's right in this aspect.

Actually its not hypocritic. I WAS TRYING TO TAKE IT FROM YOU! I love the stupidity of you chris sometimes. Oh your right, I didn't add the ("Since you copied me, I'll do it to you") God you amaze me sometimes.

hmm what about that headline where "our oil caravan was attacked by terrorists.." which in states say it was going to the ports/airports to be delivered. Your right... it was going to the poor nations of the world.. Also what about bush's statement that the oil of iraq belongs to the UN and not iraq. Thought so. If you really believe we are not taking any oil, then you just threw ANY reliability you EVER had out the window.

That paragraph had alot to do with this debate. I believe you just commited a hypocritical statement. hmmm how do you not support any kind of killing AND support the killing of "terrorists". As stated earlier, the patriot act declares who is a terrorist. It could be your next door neighbor if they wanted. The word terrorist holds no water. You basicly support the killing so long as Bush agrees with it. "They are anti-american, they must be a tyranny. Kill them!" Chris: "Yes sir... FOR FREEDOM!" Thats pretty much you and your crew.

your really must not know the definition of spinniong an arguement because i did no such thing with that statement. You never said 80's. Even then we knewthey were terrorists and could harm us. We trained them of course. "Eh... give them bombs and weapons andn ever check up on em' again..." twisted logic you have there.

Actually it is a bit of a popularity contest in a sense. People like you if you have good points. Your anti-freedom pro-killing logic is twisted hence my statement.

You say we were stopping russian imperialism. what about our imperialism. The united states history is lined with US imperialism. From manifest destiny to the war with mexico, to attacking the spanish, to vietnam. Wait thats right! Mexico, vietnam, AND pain must all be terrorists! WAR! ONWARD TO FREEDOM!

exactly... you say you want proof. Please tell me what year we knew of how the gestapo operated? If you say anywhere before 1945 I will laugh at you. They both used massive spying. From gestapo spying to wiretapping. It all leads to the same conclusion. Police State. They infiltrate peaceful protestors. Hitler infiltrated them and eventually killed them. theres an old saying: "You can always tell the FBI member in your midst because he's always the one trying to get you to bomb something."

good, just wanted to hear about columbus. You highly seem like the person to say "Columbus is a national hero." Your teacher must be freedom-loving, peace-loving and anti-killing for him to remind you of me. Thank you. I am those things.

Ok I already rebuttled the isreal statement. Repeating the same defeated statement is just taking space.

LOL Actually I'm not 12, which is more then I can say for the way you act. You act 12, with the intellectual abilities of a 14 year old with down syndrom. In fact... the "owned to the max" statement has already been answered above. and the "to the max" has nothing to do with age. Your justl ooking for some kind of insult to try to prove "your smarter then i" which is not the case at all.

You claim to always have fact when you don't.

g'day.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-03-18 at 19:20:15

Great, so Euro Im odne with this topic, you WILL NOT supply any proof for any of your arguements every time I have asked. I am not going to waste any more of my time on this. My arguements are factual and common knowledge. Its near impossible to have a reasonable debate with a person like you.

You have double standards with America:

It seems like USSR imperialism is fine, but vague American is not to you.

You SEEM to not care if innocent people of other countries are killed by their leaders, and when America does somehting about it, its bad.

but hey its not your problem now is it!

Everything that you post is mindless crap, your a left wing drone. Like I said earlier your brain only operates one way.

Good things America does ->>> Euro ==== Bad
Bad things America does ->>> Euro ==== Bad
Good things other countries do ->>> Euro ==== Good
Bad things other countries do ->>> Euro ==== Good

This topic is over and Im tired of wasting time with people like you who refuse to listen to other points of view, no matter. If you thought lawn grass was blue you would take it to your grave.

My arguement still stands and you have not "owned" anything. You only repeated yourself again with out proofs again.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-03-21 at 16:17:38

Your right.... downing street memo, white house memo, katrina tapes... all false information. Your right... I created them the night before I posted. Its all lies. Bush is god, Bush is right. no proof at all.... [/sarcasm]

Everything you have said is not fact and is not common knowledge. You provide vague explainations so as to be able to say its fact.

I have never once said Russian Imperialism is good. Words in my mouth. I already said you are the one with double standards. Russian imperialism is bad, but United States imperialism is good?

I'm sure killing people is saving them. Maybe in the eyes of Bush.

LOL Have I not stated over 15 times killing of any sort is morally wrong. Yet I "seem" not to care.... right.....

LOL not my problem... talk about using others words. I already stated that to say "not happening to me so I don't care" is wrong. God I love how your stupidity seems to takeover when you post.

QUOTE

Good things America does ->>> Euro ==== Bad
Bad things America does ->>> Euro ==== Bad
Good things other countries do ->>> Euro ==== Good
Bad things other countries do ->>> Euro ==== Good

Another assumption especially when I've already said killing is bad, no matter the country. American just seems to justify it with freedom. But I'm sure your smarter then helen Keller, Martin Luther King, Frederick Douglas... they were all brainwashed... uh huh.

Actually no. I can clearly see its green. You do the same. You think Bush is right in everything he does. (oh except going to war, as you have said) So you take the red, white, and blue blam with joy. Because it means freedom...

LOL Didn't I say you repeat yourself.... LIKE 2 POSTS AGO. jesus christ (intentionally using his name in vain) your are such an *censored out of respect for captainwill*

You have not won anything. As stated by a few to me, most notably loser_musician, you are alone.

G'day, There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.

ADDITION:
Also, Kellimus wanted me to post what he said:

QUOTE(Kellimus)

Chris.. Shame on you. Using the Ad Hominem Abusive throughout all of your posts against Euro? I thought you were more intelligent than that. *Shakes head* I guess I was wrong. You tell him to post evidence.. Where is yours? Opinions are not facts. And your "common knowledge"? Why is it that I have never heard of this "common knowledge" that you speak of, hmm? To me, it seems like you are grabbing for whatever you can, to make yourself a solidified arguement (When they aren't even solidified, either) What are you trying to say? That the needless slaughter of thousands of innocent people in the name of "freedom" is good? There is nothing wrong with that at all?

Well if that is the case then, you should be on Saddam's side, my good Bush supporter. Because that is what Bush is: A dictator.

You support everything that this country's founding fathers (Who are the creators of this country, so you cannot "debunk" them or say that "things have changed" because they know what REAL DEMOCRACY IS) are against. Slaughter of innocent people. Massive corperations. Monopolies. Murder. Lies. Deceit. ALL of which you support, if you support good ol' Gehorga Double ya Bush.

And by the way: Burdon of proof is on you :^_^:

ADDITION:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060321/ap_on_.../iraq_wmd_tapes

I would like to point out to all of you, mainly Chris, that this one news article owns every single thing you have ever said about the WMD's!

Next Page (5)