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Staredit Network -> Serious Discussion -> Designer Babies
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-12-04 at 17:36:41
Pirate, I should have put quotes on the clones word. Of course, people will look differently, but every parent would choose his child to be strong, healthy, intelligent, musical, atristical... and so on.

And I think that humans are above animals, but tha's a totally different discussion.

Musician is right: If we wouldn't advance in technology we would die, because your stratedgy of survival proposes a weaker body and a bigger brain. Technology saved, technology can kill (and I personally believe that it will).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lithium on 2006-12-04 at 18:08:07
If mankind becomes immortal, every single person will have enough time for academic perfection.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PwnPirate on 2006-12-04 at 18:16:16
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Pirate, I should have put quotes on the clones word. Of course, people will look differently, but every parent would choose his child to be strong, healthy, intelligent, musical, atristical... and so on.

And I think that humans are above animals, but tha's a totally different discussion.

There isn't a gene that makes you strong, intelligent, musical, and artistical. Those are all developed. There are only genes that make you healthy.

Humans are animals. The only difference from other is that we have almost no developments in our physical strength and adequate developments in our mental strength.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by EcHo on 2006-12-04 at 20:33:21
QUOTE(Loser_Musician @ Dec 4 2006, 04:58 PM)
If mankind became immortal, there would be scientists hundreds of years old who would be smart enough to resolve those problems.

But at least you're thinking outside of the box though.
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Thanks for proving my point. The only way to stop this is to destroy people aka Destruction of Mankind.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PoSSeSSeDCoW on 2006-12-04 at 20:43:42
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Thanks for proving my point. The only way to stop this is to destroy people aka Destruction of Mankind.

Uhh, no. Try not reproducing. Abortion and homosexuality are you friends in this aspect. Also, if humans were "immortal," it would probably mean that they simply never aged, which would leave them susceptable to disease. You, like zero, also use the slippery slope argument readily. We are discussing designer babies, not immortality.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by green_meklar on 2006-12-04 at 20:51:48
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And what will making all humans "better" achieve?

How about improving our lives and making everyone happier?
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A strong human is only strong because there is someone weaker.

How many times do we rational people have to disprove this invalid argument? Strength is not measured against other people, it's measured against its uses. Being able to lift a 200 kilogram block is just plain better than being able to only lift a 100 kilogram block, no matter how strong everybody else happens to be.
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If you want to be a clone out of an army of alike clones, think again.

So long as genetic modification wasn't also accompanied by brainwashing (and the two are quite obviously entirely different things), even a society of clones would still have plenty of individuality based on how they grew up, what they knew, etc. But in fact, even genetically improving people does not mean that everyone will end up with exactly the same genes. Well, maybe given long enough, but we probably won't have long enough (after a few generations of designer babies, we'll probably start transferring our minds to cybernetic bodies).
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Greater technological and medical advancements leads to the fall of man and the self destruction of humankind.

Only if someone uses them that way.
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What do you think will happen if mankind because immortal from medicine? What will happen? The world would get overcrowded.

Since you seem to have ignored my refutation of this argument before, I'll have to restate it (please read it this time): There is a strong correlation between technological advancement and use of birth control, and it is likely that in the future birth rates will fall all across the world as people get access to more advanced technology. By the time we become immortal, we will have the power to reduce the birth rate to practically zero, as well as new energy sources that will allow us to support more people than we can right now. And in fact, as the first superiorly intelligent generation grows up, their understanding and the technological developments they make will actually help counteract the overpopulation problem.
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And technology, remember the cold war?

Yeah, I remember. No one actually fired a nuke, and lots of advancements in electronics, materials and engineering technology were made that we will benefit from for decades to come.
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There isn't a gene that makes you strong, intelligent, musical, and artistical. Those are all developed. There are only genes that make you healthy.

That's not actually true. There are indeed genetic codes for strength and intelligence, and also some for creativity which would help musical and artistic talent.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by EcHo on 2006-12-04 at 21:35:10
QUOTE(PoSSeSSeDCoW @ Dec 4 2006, 08:43 PM)
Uhh, no.  Try not reproducing.  Abortion and homosexuality are you friends in this aspect.  Also, if humans were "immortal," it would probably mean that they simply never aged, which would leave them susceptable to disease.  You, like zero, also use the slippery slope argument readily.  We are discussing designer babies, not immortality.
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That is exactly the destruction of mankind too. Oh yeah, homosexuality is really helping the human society. What is abortion? Killing babies.

QUOTE(green_meklar @ Dec 4 2006, 08:51 PM)
How about improving our lives and making everyone happier?

How many times do we rational people have to disprove this invalid argument? Strength is not measured against other people, it's measured against its uses. Being able to lift a 200 kilogram block is just plain better than being able to only lift a 100 kilogram block, no matter how strong everybody else happens to be.

So long as genetic modification wasn't also accompanied by brainwashing (and the two are quite obviously entirely different things), even a society of clones would still have plenty of individuality based on how they grew up, what they knew, etc. But in fact, even genetically improving people does not mean that everyone will end up with exactly the same genes. Well, maybe given long enough, but we probably won't have long enough (after a few generations of designer babies, we'll probably start transferring our minds to cybernetic bodies).

Only if someone uses them that way.

Since you seem to have ignored my refutation of this argument before, I'll have to restate it (please read it this time): There is a strong correlation between technological advancement and use of birth control, and it is likely that in the future birth rates will fall all across the world as people get access to more advanced technology. By the time we become immortal, we will have the power to reduce the birth rate to practically zero, as well as new energy sources that will allow us to support more people than we can right now. And in fact, as the first superiorly intelligent generation grows up, their understanding and the technological developments they make will actually help counteract the overpopulation problem.

Yeah, I remember. No one actually fired a nuke, and lots of advancements in electronics, materials and engineering technology were made that we will benefit from for decades to come.

That's not actually true. There are indeed genetic codes for strength and intelligence, and also some for creativity which would help musical and artistic talent.
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That quote war is getting really annoying.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PoSSeSSeDCoW on 2006-12-04 at 22:02:28
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That is exactly the destruction of mankind too. Oh yeah, homosexuality is really helping the human society.

I'm sorry, I occasionally get tired of the capacity of religion to descriminate against people and worm their way into the bedrooms of people they don't belong in. Homosexuality, in no way, harms the human populace. Stop caring about what people do that does not affect you. Being around homosexual people won't make you gay, and gay people do not emit gaydiation or anything of the sort. Religion merely seems to supply a conduit for homophobes. True religious people do not descriminate based upon sexual orientation.

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What is abortion? Killing babies.

Killing fetuses. Abortion, by definition, is the destruction of the life within the womb. Babies are, by definition, human children that have been born. You cannot abort something that has been born, so your point is invalid.

By the way, you managed to completely disregard the main point I made in that comment. You seem to simply disregard any valid points made against you, as evidenced by your dismissal of meklar's points as a "quote war."
Report, edit, etc...Posted by EcHo on 2006-12-04 at 22:08:49
QUOTE(PoSSeSSeDCoW @ Dec 4 2006, 10:02 PM)
I'm sorry, I occasionally get tired of the capacity of religion to descriminate against people and worm their way into the bedrooms of people they don't belong in.  Homosexuality, in no way, harms the human populace.  Stop caring about what people do that does not affect you.  Being around homosexual people won't make you gay, and gay people do not emit gaydiation or anything of the sort.  Religion merely seems to supply a conduit for homophobes.  True religious people do not descriminate based upon sexual orientation.
Killing fetuses.  Abortion, by definition, is the destruction of the life within the womb.  Babies are, by definition, human children that have been born.  You cannot abort something that has been born, so your point is invalid.

By the way, you managed to completely disregard the main point I made in that comment.  You seem to simply disregard any valid points made against you, as evidenced by your dismissal of meklar's points as a "quote war."
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So what you're saying is, everyone is born a pointless useless thing. A mind can be wasted because there are unlimited supplies of humans?

Also thanks for proving another point. You said homosexuality can stop the overpopulance, so you're telling me that everyone should be homosexual to help stop overpopuation from advancements in medicine which might make humans immortal?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PoSSeSSeDCoW on 2006-12-04 at 22:35:31
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So what you're saying is, everyone is born a pointless useless thing. A mind can be wasted because there are unlimited supplies of humans?

No, what I said was that abortion is killing fetuses, not killing babies. I was challenging your word choice, not your actual statement, as letting your opponent frame the debate is the first step to your loss in an argument. I said nothing about the morality of abortion.

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Also thanks for proving another point. You said homosexuality can stop the overpopulance, so you're telling me that everyone should be homosexual to help stop overpopuation from advancements in medicine which might make humans immortal?

No, I merely said in a jovial manner that homosexuality, which you decry so vehemently, is actually a solution to the other problem, immortality, that you brought up. I also never said that anyone should become homosexuality, especially since I know that homosexuality is genetic. Please do not extrapolate completely unrelated conclusions from what I say. What was the first point that I proved anyways?

Anyways, you ignored my main point, which, coincidentally, was about my main point. Please read this since you seem to have missed it in my first post:
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By the way, you managed to completely disregard the main point I made in that comment.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by green_meklar on 2006-12-05 at 00:34:54
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That quote war is getting really annoying.

If you think some parts aren't relevant, don't reply to them. If you think all of it isn't relevant, don't reply to it at all. But if you're going to reply to any of it, please actually address my points rather than avoiding arguing with me and trying to 'meta-win', so to speak, by saying my formatting is bad.
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So what you're saying is, everyone is born a pointless useless thing.

Pretty much. It's just that these pointless useless things happen to be some of the best material for turning into some very useful things (people).
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A mind can be wasted because there are unlimited supplies of humans?

At the time abortions are normally performed, the baby's mind is still very simple, if it exists at all. In fact, I would say that almost certainly many mammals including cows and pigs would be smarter than the fetus. So, have you become a vegetarian yet?
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You said homosexuality can stop the overpopulance, so you're telling me that everyone should be homosexual to help stop overpopuation from advancements in medicine which might make humans immortal?

No, he was just saying that the homosexuality that does exist would be helping us against overpopulation. He didn't say everyone should be homosexual. However, that is a good point, and in fact once our technology gets good enough we may find it beneficial to breed an entirely homosexual or even asexual population in order to ensure we don't run into overpopulation too quickly.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Lithium on 2006-12-05 at 01:42:51
Topic Closed. I cannot stand my great topic being used with horrible arguments and slippery slopes. I also cannot stand why you live EcHo if you think the destruction of mankind should come. Less men, less women to be fertilized.
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