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Indecisiveman, I personally think you want minerals because you are making your posts long, repetitive, flame-based, and stretched into something that can be said in 2 sentences. As you can see most of the people are against you because...

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1. You are ignorant.

2. You claim people don't read your posts but you don't read theirs carefully enough.

3. You use the same argument every single time.

4. You will flame this post and say "What the Hell are you talking about? " Then post a long and stupid explanation and/or flame me and rant and/or ignore my post because it is right and say, " I WASN'T TALKING TO YOU STUPID!" and/or you will say I didn't read your post carefully enough and/or say I am wrong and you are right. I am telepathic.

5. You are hypocrite every other sentence.

6. You use the bible to go against scientific facts

7. You can't accept what any non-Christian says.

8. You aren't a very good representor considering you consider Christanity to be the most peaceful religion. (BTW I am using your logic, since you think humans aren't animals because they are mankind, I say you think Christianity is the most peaceful religion because you said it was the best. Maybe you will understand better if we use your logic.)

9. You are just mean overall

10. Your posts are very out there and not to the point.

11. You assume that everyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid

12. All Of The Above.

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You make it sound like being gay is a disease and that it should die. Then when everyone proves your wrong you claim that you DIDN'T hate gay people. Gay people are not evil in any way, in fact they are nicer than the average person, and I think the majority of the people here agree with me.

I got nothin against gays, 'cept if they try to get with me, it's happened.

Anyways technically being gay is a trait. There's a sector in the brain that is short in males and long in females. This small sector is long in males sometimes. This causes the male to either start turning gay, go flat out gay, go flat out bi, or change sexes if it is close enough to the length of a female.

The same goes for females if it is short.

Boom, there's a trait for ya Kirby.

Kirby, link me to a site where a gay person says that being gay was a choice. Just one. Also, my understanding of homosexuality comes from my homosexual friends, of which there are several. They all say that they are gay involuntarily. Here's a question: Are you attracted to women by choice, or does the attraction just happen on its own? What I'm saying is that attraction is not a voluntary thing. Use your own sense of attraction if you need proof.

His posts are long because he has much to say. Rather than make several short posts with just a couple sentences, he decided to compile all those thoughts into one. Everyone will be incited to flame if they're being ignored or misunderstood.

1. You're no better than him. Noone is.
2. No one really does read his posts (mainly because his are lengthy). He does put thought into his posts; just maybe not in the way others might perceive them.
3. So does everyone
4. That's because you truly are flaming him without saying anything useful. Calling him ignorant when he infact isn't will get him aggravated. So I think you (and possibly all of us) should cut it out with the flaming.
5. No
6. He uses the bible to prove some of his points, not to refute scientific facts.
7. You can't coerce him to change his thoughts. He believes in what he believes in. Nor was he trying to coerce you to believe in what he believes in.
8. Him saying christianity is the best religion isn't the same as saying christianity is the most peaceful religion. See, this is why he's getting extremely aggravated; you're saying a whole bunch of fallacious stuff which gets him mad and doesn't make much sense.
9. No he's not. He's just gets aggravated sometimes when noone is willing to understand what he's trying to say. And at least, he's not calling anyone ignorant unlike you.
10. If his are, then neither are yours
11. No, he doesn't think anyone is stupid. He's just pissed at people who are unwilling to at least try and comprehend what he's trying to say.
12. All of what you said has now been disproven.

Shadow... I've never heard that before. Please sight a reference before making claims like that.

1. At least I don't have to shout at people.
2. That is why he should shorten them
3. No
4. I was angry at the time, if you were to read the pms he sent me I think you would be surprised.
5. Yes.
6. He says humans aren't animals because it says in the bible, when several people pointed out why we are animals scientifically. I call that, trying to prove scientific facts wrong with the bible.
7. But if you were to flame him right now, he would say, "Oh you are wonderfull and great for giving me this suggestion." Just because you are Christian, you know it's true.
8.Like I stated, I was using HIS logic, just because people are mankind doesn't mean they can't be animals.
9. They are, but he has to make his posts waay out there and semi-based on flaming, You should read his last posts here.
10. Oh well.
11. If someone says someone else is stupid during an argument, it means she/he thinks they are stupid.
12. No

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Since indecisiveman lives up to his name and can't decide wether or not gay people are bad. He is pointing out little rules here and there that makes the whole thing jumbled up. Gay people are people who like the same gender, that isn't that bad now is it? Make up your mind.

Nozomu, link me to a site where an atheist says that they remove the possibility of God before even looking at the evidence. Just one. At least you're bringing up a source. Unfortunately, you of ALL people should know that the human mind is a fickle thing; the perfect example is Christians! We logically (most of us anyways) came to the conclusion that Christianity is right. We're not going to say, "Oh we just decided out of the blue to become Christians." There is some "logical" connection to justify any conclusion.

Oh, here's a great example I just thought of. Ever played basketball? This is a rough sport if your partners don't know how to pass the ball at the correct pace. They pass the ball to you way too fast, and the ball whacks you in the head. Now here's the thing, you saw the ball coming, you were merely too slow to dodge it. Now, please tell me, dear Nozomu, if someone asks, "Why couldn't you dodge the ball?", will you say, "I was too slow", or "It just happened; I couldn't help it." The second one is the usual answer; it's like that for everybody. wow my keyboard feels weird... really weird.

Well, if you mean I learned what I liked and disliked, and these dislikes were greatly influenced by both my mind AND my surroundings, well then.. I guess they're not completely as "voluntary" as you think they are.

Gay speaking on choice
Problems with so-called “experiments” to test if homosexuality is a gene.
queerbychoice.com
Oh; here’s something interesting.
I like this website, because it’s Christian and it makes me think somewhat. Too bad its theory of “Gays don’t choose” doesn’t hold weight.
More Two large questions pop up here, but I will state them in a later post.

Google search: Gay gene
AgGene#1
AgGene#2: Skip down to Conclusion if short on time.
AgGene#3: Gosh I wonder when I’ll find a pro-gene website by using Google with “gay gene”

Honestly, I woulda done that if the link was on the net. It was some complex thing on the Science Channel concerning the sexuality in a human. Um, if it's ever on again I'll post times.

ADDITION:


You are referring to women here (quote won't show up for some reason). Now, this is what we call "instinct". I'm sure you are familiar with the act of mating, you NEED members of the opposite sex, you don't choose that, it just comes to ya. There are some cases where gays are formed just by people saying they wanna be gay. Think of being gay as a birth defect, which it is. It's not necessarily a bad one but it can never be passed on as long as the person stays straight gay. By the way, after reading your post, I asked a homosexual that I know if he chose to be gay, he said and I will quote, "What kind of dumbass question is that?"

So Kirby, you're saying that you know more about homosexuality than homosexuals themselves? Somehow I doubt your credibility when you make that claim.

Im christian, i dont make fun of/ hate on gay people, just as long as they dont flirt with me or try something worse.

Well once again you are not reading my posts. Jetblast, quote me where I say "Gyas are bad people." Jetblast, quote me on where I say "Gays are good people." You can't. I never said those things. I can, however, quote myself on what I actually DID post. I read my posts(unlike most of you people...*sighs*).



Now where in there does it say I hate gays? I think it says the opposite. Where in tehre does it say I like gays? I think it says I ignore them yet think they are wrong. So stop randomly making things up JetBlast, especailly the aprt about me sending you PM's that somehow said bad things. I am not that kind of person, I do not cuss, I am not mean, I am actually pretty dang nice, until people ignore me because of what religion I have chosen. That kind of thing really pisses me off. I'm done.

indecisiveman, you are the one who is not reading the posts. JetBlast never said anything about you saying "OMG GAYS ARE SUCKY" (or anything like that). However, he is critisizing for things that you are doing wrong. You have faced none of the problems he has presented and only, like he said, repeated yourself.


The problem with this idea is that you still have no judgement on other people. Only god does. Problem with that is, you have to prove god exists as well as proving he sides with you. Naturally, the bible is not considered the proof because by the definition of proof

you would have to be able to repeat god's actions.


I don't know a lot about the bible (except that it's a cool book ), but I'm wondering, does the bible ever specifically say things about gay people?

Kirby. You realize the hypocrisy in your statement of saying that humans aren't capable of judging, THEN making a judgement? By saying that the human mind is fickle and comes quickly to incorrect conclusion so gays are actually making a choice, so says I, states that A. All opinions of humans are void. B. Your opinion is right. Unless you're an alien, your argument is nullified.

I understand, but pay close attention to what I am about to say. Ask an atheist if he uses logic and he will say, "What kind of dumbass question is that?" also. Now the point I bring up is that, being a Christian, the atheist's logic is fallalicious, because well if it wasn't, then it would be sheer stupidity to believe in Christianity. But because the atheist says they use correct logic, they're right... err right?

Now before I get too ahead of myself, I wish to point out that neither gays nor atheists are purposely "lieing" (notice the quotes) because they're stupid; intellegence has nothing to do with this. We come to "logical" conclusions based upon events, our personality, and how our brain processes the events. Just because we come to "logical conclusions" doesn't make them right. Somehow I come to the conclusion that 15+16=26 naturally, yet upon double-checking I see my error. It's true I tell you!

What I know is that there is no substancial evidence for said "gay gene", and my current hypothesis of your um... "likes" is partially based upon your personality and your circumstances.
Yes, I was quite vague on the point I was trying to bring up. Now Nozomu, if you "felt" that you were forced into something, you're not going to say that you had a choice. Emotion is a fickle things humans are unable to control very well. Emotion is GOOD at times, for it can reveal truth, but it can also blind truth as well. One example is the stereotypical claim that Christians are Christians because they just cant accept the fact that after they die, *poof* thats it.

Secondly, you probably know of those lax Christians raised in Christian homes, do immoral things, but still consider themselves to be "christians". They do the church thing, so therefore they must be Christians.
Oh how the mind works.



No, I merely stated that humans are easily fooled. Of course, you may say that I am easily fooled as well. But of course, ALL humans are not fooled because if you say "all humans are fooled" you would have to deny all science because science then would have been made by fools. Since science is the basis of anti-foolishness, I grab data from science and use inferences to create my conclusions. Of course, since I myself created these inferences they might have the logic of the fool, and therefore disprovable. If you can find my inferences in err, please tell me. And in any case, I'm a Kirby <(^.^)>.

Conclusion: a.k.a. Hypotheses
1. I have not yet seen any evidence for some "gay gene".
2. Our characteristics plus our events equals our outlook upon life, whether it be gloomy, free for all, same sex attraction, or any other conclusion that comes from some "logic".
3. Our characteristics may affect our "chances" of becoming gay by our events, but still as I have stated earlier, I have only seen scientific conclusions of no known "gay gene".
4. I am 8-inch pink ball of fluff.. er... yeah....

sorry for breaking up the post but did you know this is the third highest Forum in serious disusion in SEN history.

WOW!

The thing is, Kirby, there is no evidence that being gay is a choice, either. So basically neither of our claims can be proven. In the absence of evidence, we have to come to the conclusion that we just don't know, and therefore cannot claim that we do. However, a lack of knowledge does not hinder the case for fair treatment of homosexuals by Christians.

Yes you are done, done for.
Because it is bad luck for you that I never delete my pms.


There is about 7 more pms, but I don't want to bother you all with 10 posts with indecisiveman flaming me and being hypocrite. I am not saying indecisiveman is a horrible arse or anything.. But he is

Also, you just stated in your last post that you ignore gays, and you think they are bad, proving my post right meaning you really DIDN'T read my post carefully enough, proving my post right again, you also said that I didn't read your post carefully enough, proving my post right AGAIN. So you should stick to one or the other, gay = good or bad.

Ok first of all those PM's aren't quoted. So I don't know what you might have changed for your own use. Second of all, where in there does it show I am a bad person? I don't see it showing that I am evil, or think your views are stupid, or anything of that nature. I am not done, no. Where in there do i cuss, eh? Yes at the time I sent those I was angry. Yes in there I got angry at you(although I don't recall those words...). Yes in there I was furious. I also had every right to be. But nowhere in there(here is a shocker ) does it show I am an evil person or I have bad intentions. It actually shows I restrained myself form cussing, etc. So thanks for bringing them up. Bring the other 7 PM's you reportedly have. Show everyone. I do not cuss, degrade people, and all that crap people do. About ignoring YOUR posts, that is a new one I never expected(laughs uncontrollably). Now tell me why I have to choose between good or bad? I think this is America where you have your own opinion, is it not? Religiously, they are bad people. As for me, I choose to ignore there ways and let them do as they please(seeing as how most of the time it is to be rebellious and such). So I can ignore them and think they are bad at the same time. Also, share with me how I didn't read your post(once again I expect your answer to be "Go back and read, you aren't reading them" as was the case with Basan).

But why are they bad? Hmm? Oh yeah... no answer, right?

TheoreticalHuman. If you are referring to why gay people are bad, I am pissed. I alreayd posted that like 50 times by now. People get angry at me and wonder why I say certain things, why I repeat myself many times, why I get so frustrated. Here is the example. A person named TheoreticalHuman who can't scroll back a few pages to find my thousands of posts to his question. I won't post it again, stop being lazy, look.

P.S. If you didn't mean that I am truely sorry but I am pretty sure you do.

*bangs his head on the keyboard*
To be honest, I have no idea why I just did that... I think it had to with how you phrased the last sentence. Anyways.. I think i'll stop being vague and actually start typing logically.
That is a very good observation Nozomu. If I were to say "burden of proof" to those who believe that you are born gay, then I would have to bring up evidence for my point. BUT, if I were to disprove the possibility of being born gay, THEN "burden of proof" would not be brought into the picture because of the Law of Noncontradiction. Currently, my hypotheses have internal homostasis (not contradicting), but needs more external homostasis (proof)... wait a minute.. WHAT AM I TALKING ABOUT?!?!?! This is just like the Evolution vs. Christianity case!!! Substitute "gay gene" with "God" in this next passage:

Christian: "Can you disprove God... huh? huh?"
Atheist: "Burden of proof. The affirmative claim needs to bring up proof for God."
Christian: "Then why don't you go find evidence for God then huh?"
Atheist: "That would be pointless, because you can't find evidence for some God that doesn't exist. We can't disprove it because you can't find evidence for something that doesn't exist. Unless you can bring evidence up yourself, we cannot disprove anything."

You know something's wrong here arguments are able to cross over into different subjects.


I don't think i'll be pushy, obstinate, assertive, or what ever word people use here. I thought I already answered this question a long time ago, and I think you said the same thing as me Nozomu. Everyone here speaks roughly the same thing actually, even indecisiveman. He's just making a debate about if homosexuality is immoral by God's standards, not discriminate against gays.

We all agree that we should treat one another equally reguardless of race, sex, likes, and dislikes. It's not just about "Christians", its a statement for EVERYONE. Correct?

Right, I agree with you there. The problem isn't necessarily what the Bible says about homosexuality. I've read the passages and I interpret the Bible as saying that God finds homosexuals to be immoral. But what the topic is about is treating these immoral (according to the Bible) people badly, like the example used in the first post of the topic. Even if the Bible says that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, that doesn't mean that God-fearing Christians should discriminate against homosexuals. This may sound a bit humanistic, but my loyalty in that regard lies towards treating people properly no matter what God's opinion is.

I agree. In Christian view, we shouldn't discriminate against one another. I mean, you can refuse to having sex with the crazy woman next door and not call her a psycho.

Christians shouldn't look down upon anyone else, nor should anyone else look down upon anyone else for that matter. And in any case, Christians shouldn't judge because God is going to be the one judging non-Christians when they stand at the judgement seat of Christ.

Haha Nozomu, this funny image goes into my head when you say "God-fearing Christians shouldn't discriminate against homosexuals". I see this lone Christian wander into San Francisco, spots gay people, so he puts his fingers into a cross and says "Stay back!! I'm warning you! I have the Bible!" *flails the Bible around "Don't make me use this! Back I say!!!". Hopefully, Christians aren't like how I am depicting.

Ok first of all those PM's can just be reread by you in your OWN message box for proof. It shows you are a bad person, you are NOT restraining from flaming me, and if you are, you have anger management issues to work out. It does show that you think my views are stupid and everything of that nature. I will be posting the pms where you cussed in a few seconds. Yes it does show you have bad intentions you want to rule the discussion forum and you don't want me to post in any place you argue ever. I cuss, you degrade people, and all that crap a normal person does.

This one is a nice one, he even states he ignores me.

This one is for when you always say you never call other people "stupid".

I don't even need to explain this one.

I would show more but this is trailing off topic.
Because Indecisiveman doesn't think gay people are evil, but he thinks they are bad, and he ignores them. He is obviously not getting my point. You say you don't think gay people are evil or anything of the sort, well "bad" is "anything of the sort". So you don't think gay people are evil but you think they are bad. So I don't think tacos are tasty but I think they taste good. Do you get my point? (Watch him flame me)

I still don't see where I degrade you/cuss or ignore your views. Heck I ignore your PM's of you flaming me yes. But not your views. I accept them but when you say things like I am immature....that I shouldn't be posting...yeah of course I ignore you. I don't call people stupid I said your ACTING stupid. Notice the word ACTING. And I NEVER said that I thought gay people were bad. This is the problem I have with people. I said religiously they are bad. I ignore them personally. Read that line over again so you don't post something else that ignores me. I don't think they are Bad people. The only sense that they are "bad" in is how they don't follow God. Ok? I hope your brain can comprehend that(oh shoot is this cussing too? *giggles*). Your claims about me cussing and falming you are absurd(as are most of your comments towards me). I suggest you stop and look at the facts. Never will you be able to argue logically, never can you prove I cuss(well duh because I don't), never will you win this "argument", and never can your words affect me personally. I believe you are trying to insult my inntelligence of some kind. Just stop, it is stupid(get it YOU aren't stupid, your ACTIONS are....there is a difference). Heh.

*laughs uncontrollably at his many puns and referneces to statements*