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Staredit Network -> Lite Discussion -> Time travel paradox
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-11-17 at 16:10:28
QUOTE(Oo.Zero.oO @ Nov 17 2006, 04:25 PM)
Its theorized that when you compress something enough it stops the molecules from moving. When you compress air it turns into a liquid and then into a solid and the molecules in a solid move less and ones in air move more. So thus by making the molecules stop moving you freeze the object in time, but when you compress something it gets colder and could not protect human life because of compression and coldness.
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If the object is frozen in time, wouldn't it simply disappear? I mean, if it was stuck in a single point in time, any time beyond that it simply wouldn't exist.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-11-17 at 16:50:49
QUOTE(Killer_Kow(MM) @ Nov 17 2006, 04:10 PM)
If the object is frozen in time, wouldn't it simply disappear? I mean, if it was stuck in a single point in time, any time beyond that it simply wouldn't exist.
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See, this makes more sence to me than it traveling forward in time.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.Zero.oO on 2006-11-17 at 18:17:20
Frozen in time is probably not the best word, but I mean frozen as in not moving not aging. Frozen, but not neccesary in time.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-11-17 at 18:24:17
Ah. I see what you mean. It would be like if it was trapped in a box and everything changed around it, but it stayed perfectly the same. Although, I don't think we would be able to exert enough pressure on an object to create the effect.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PoSSeSSeDCoW on 2006-11-17 at 18:26:01
QUOTE
See, this makes more sence to me than it traveling forward in time.


It would be frozen in time if it was moving at absolute zero (I think, I can't remember the formula for it right now). However, if it was moving just above absolute zero, then it would be time traveling.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.Zero.oO on 2006-11-17 at 19:11:41
Its a theory that we can create absolute zero( molecules stopping ) , but we don't really know how we could do such a thing.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-11-17 at 19:12:56
I heard some guy was really close to creating it, but used the wrong type of measurement, like grams or ounces and screwed it up. This was a few years ago.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2006-11-17 at 19:35:11
QUOTE(Oo.Zero.oO @ Nov 17 2006, 07:11 PM)
Its a theory that we can create absolute zero( molecules stopping ) , but we don't really know how we could do such a thing.
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It actually has been done, but only for a few nano sec. I brought up this exact theory of time travel to my science teacher two years ago, and he agreed that in theory it is possible.

Traveling into the future is very easy compared to traveling into the past. There are multiple theories in how to delay/stop time for x area for y amount of reactions in z area. Infact, some have already been proven. Such as that nuclear clock example.

But reversing the process or rearranging things exactly how they once were, is almost as impossible as impossible can get.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Killer_Kow(MM) on 2006-11-17 at 19:44:43
QUOTE(Oo.Zero.oO @ Nov 17 2006, 08:11 PM)
Its a theory that we can create absolute zero( molecules stopping ) , but we don't really know how we could do such a thing.
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Doesn't the term "absolute zero" refer to temperature? Meh.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2006-11-17 at 19:50:27
Ya, it does. It's 0 degrees in kelvin, -459 in Farenheit, or -273 in celsius
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.Zero.oO on 2006-11-17 at 20:35:29
When something is compressed it gets colder though.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodan on 2006-11-17 at 20:43:35
Until the pressure gets so great that fusion occurs, of course. ;p
Report, edit, etc...Posted by green_meklar on 2006-11-17 at 20:49:09
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Everyone thinks of aliens as creatures that look like we do.

They could be little bugs or very big, just because or size is normal to us doesnt mean that they are just lke us.

Being very small is unlikely, as brains require a certain amount of complexity in order to achieve intelligence. If we find intelligent aliens that are small, then most likely they will work by some kind of group consciousness system (not based on psionics, of course, but on sound or light or something like that for communication, sort of like in A Fire Upon the Deep).
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I would think we would be a alternate universe, but how is it that we are 100% the alternate universe and not the seed?

Maybe we are. How do we know what the seed universe is? It might be populated with a completely different species, or even have different laws of physics, depending on just what the time travelers are capable of altering.
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And what is the Copernican Principle? And what makes people think that his principle is right besides the fact that we cant prove it wrong?

Copernican Principle

The Copernican Principle is a logical convention which can basically be put as 'our place is not special'. That is to say, the assumption that we are in an objectively special place or situation is illogical and therefore tends to lead to false conclusions. It's something like Occam's Razor.
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I heard some guy was really close to creating it, but used the wrong type of measurement, like grams or ounces and screwed it up. This was a few years ago.

They have indeed come very close. By pointing lasers at individual atoms, they are able to hold them in place, achieving local temperatures within a few millionths of a degree of absolute zero. However, achieving actual absolute zero is impossible due to quantum mechanics.
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When something is compressed it gets colder though.

No, it actually gets hotter. The reason it becomes a liquid and eventually a solid is because the molecules simply don't have the space to form a gas. The material itself stays very hot. Similarly, decompressing something cools it down. This is the principle behind a fridge: It compresses air, waits for the compressed air to cool down to room temperature, then decompresses it and ends up with cold air to pump into the area where you put your food.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zeratul_101 on 2006-11-17 at 21:02:34
QUOTE(Doodan @ Nov 17 2006, 10:55 AM)
For this to be true, we must theorize that all time exists simultaneously everywhere in the universe
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well, my hypothesis about this does include that, it also compensates for the grandfather paradox and most other paradoxes for that matter. i dunno if its been posted sofar, but i'll post it up later after i do some work in paint wink.gif.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-11-17 at 21:50:44
QUOTE
Similarly, decompressing something cools it down.


Also why space is so cold. The atmospheric molecules in interplanetary space are between 3 and 10 meters apart, hence the ambient temperature in space is between 1 and 2 Kelvin.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-11-18 at 12:28:20
But if it is so cold why do astronaughts not feel it. They say that in space there is nothing to moniter it like there is on earth. On earth the temperature finds a happy medium. In space yu could be in the view of the sun and it could be 200 degrees as the person right next to you could be in the shade from the sun and they could be in the -100 degree range.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JordanN_3335 on 2006-11-18 at 12:29:58
QUOTE(Mp)7-7 @ Nov 18 2006, 01:28 PM)
But if it is so cold why do astronaughts not feel it.  They say that in space there is nothing to moniter it like there is on earth.  On earth the temperature finds a happy medium.  In space you could be in the view of the sun and it could be 200 degrees as the person right next to you could be in the shade from the sun and they could be in the -100 degree range.
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What are you talking about of course they can feel cold. It's just for the record that if you do feel the cold you wouldnt live to say about it.

And shouldnt the discussion stay as time travel paradox not space itself?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oo.Zero.oO on 2006-11-18 at 14:20:12
Part of the reason we dont need to worry a whole ton about how cold space is is because we closer to earth. Out there near pluto in stuff its like -400 fareignheight. And it is still really cold in space.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by green_meklar on 2006-11-18 at 19:48:54
QUOTE
i'll post it up later after i do some work in paint

omg download gimp now plz kthx
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Also why space is so cold. The atmospheric molecules in interplanetary space are between 3 and 10 meters apart, hence the ambient temperature in space is between 1 and 2 Kelvin.

Actually, last I heard it was the Cosmic Microwave Background that had a temperature of about 3 kelvin, but the actual hydrogen particles floating around in space are very hot because they've spent eons absorbing energy. Not sure about this, though.
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But if it is so cold why do astronaughts not feel it.

Because there's hardly anything to drain their heat. Space itself has no temperature, because there are no molecules in it. The only objects around to drain heat are a few specks of hydrogen and whatever equipment the astronaut is touching. So basically the same reason why jumping into a 5 degree swimming pool cools you down far faster than walking out in -20 degree air; the water may be warmer, but it has a far larger capacity to drain your heat. In fact, spaceships often have a problem with overheating, because they have nothing around to absorb the heat; I believe some have already been equipped with radiators to let off the energy as infrared radiation.
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Part of the reason we dont need to worry a whole ton about how cold space is is because we closer to earth.

Well, proximity to the Sun does a hell of a lot more for a spaceship's temperature than proximity to the Earth. The Earth doesn't radiate all that much, the Sun does.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zeratul_101 on 2006-11-19 at 02:55:41
ps spacesuits also have heating
Report, edit, etc...Posted by green_meklar on 2006-11-19 at 18:04:43
Well, I think more properly they have temperature regulation. Heating is sometimes necessary, especially if you're in the shade. At other times it can be more useful to cool down. Of course, small objects such as astronauts have less trouble with staying cool than large objects such as spaceships.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by McAfee on 2006-11-19 at 21:33:25
QUOTE(Oo.Zero.oO @ Nov 16 2006, 11:39 PM)
What about getting a object to travel into the future by making it so its molecules stop moving? I had a earlier post saying this, but everyone hates the thought.
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If it is frozen... its not going anywhere..... ever.

QUOTE(Killer_Kow(MM) @ Nov 17 2006, 05:10 PM)
If the object is frozen in time, wouldn't it simply disappear? I mean, if it was stuck in a single point in time, any time beyond that it simply wouldn't exist.
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No, it would be there, but it would never change.


Anyway

Space dose have stuff in it, its just so far apart that they mey as well not even be there.

Also, noting in space holds heat.......
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-11-19 at 23:53:43
What are these things in space? Stars, Planets, Rocks, and Man made objects are in space. I cant think of anything else. Unless you are talking about small microscopic molecules and atoms.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by McAfee on 2006-11-20 at 18:35:41
It's small atoms and the like.
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