Staredit Network

well it should have said he made it
we trusted LW....

So what do you do to fix paranoia? Take someone who is an arachnophobe and throw them in a pit of spiders? Real nice solution.

You solve the issue by dealing with it straight. Not by using drama to solve drama. What LW did by releasing an unprotector behind the community's back was kinda underhanded, and even if he decides now to "confess", it's done little but cause this big communal uproar of mixed emotions. Instead of exposing the real heart of the issue, we've added new layers of emotion to it, and for many it's now become strictly an issue of picking sides instead of trying to breaking it down and fix it.


That's not a resolution. At best it's even a stalemate. What's more likely to happen is someone loses, and then the cycle of negativity just becomes reset to the beginning, poised to start all over again.

When will you people ever learn?!

I like how nobody cares about OSMAP or even mentions it ever until I post about how I made it.

Edit: And I don't see how I lied to you all. I was never asked if I made it (other than by devilesk which I told him). I just took on a pseudonym. I was actually talking to people from SEN as I was experimenting with protection:

Map unprotection made me a better mapmaker.

Kill your egos; who cares if you're popular on the internet

I can here the NSA calling...
I am with legacy and his choice. Remember, its because of him and cloak that your maps were even protected. After archn leaked heimdel's GUEdit was useless.

I guess, even if you didn't have OSMAP and wanted to "see" the map, you could always ask the author to give you an unprotected copy. I suppose that if you gave him good reasons he wouldn't have a problem in doing so. That's what I've always done. That way you'll avoid any kind of problems that could merge from viewing somebody else's map without their "permission".

That "community" idea in which everybody would be keen to give away their maps unprotected is imo something utopic. Not everbody would be glad to do so. I see no problem in people making better versions of the map, but would it be so hard to give you the slightest credit in the new version? Or even contact the author to explain him/her that you're planning to improve his/her map? Only noobs would be stupid enough to say you: "Oh noes! My map is mine and only mine and I don't want it to be improved by another person! Even if it becomes the most played map!"

See ya!

Richan

The only reason we are even arguing if this is right or wrong is because LW made it, if some random person we've never heard of confessed to doing this, the whole forum would probably be flaming him left and right.

Okay, I'm not going to bother reading through eight pages of posts. However, I'd like to voice my concern over this issue -- the open source movement -- and how it was a selfish move that compromised the works of many map makers. I totally support the map makers right to protect a creation: not for the fame, not for the glory of worship, but to protect the integrity of the map maker's hard work.

I seriously think that the release of uBeR@TiOn3's source code was a selfish move. It practically forces a good number of map makers to leave their hard work unprotected and exposed to the public.

Think about this: was a OSMAP a huge problem before LW told he created it ? Did people make huge topics (exept DEAD) like "We all must unite to stop this horror of map-stealing" ?

We are all people, thus have different opinions. You trust him when he warns people, don't you ? (well, doh, he's a GM after all) Why can't you understand him instead of banning ?

About the rules: I think SEN should be neutral to protectinon and unprotection, but offer only protection programms (because I'm 51 for protection and 49 for OSMAP ). Why ? Well, I'll give you an example:

You have a 10 year old child in a room. In that room there is a box. If you tell him "I will never tell you what is in the box, and you must never find out what's in there" the chances of him opening the box are higher. If you tell him nothing, the chances of him opening it are smaller.


The "Real" map makers ? Oh, yeah, right... you mean a fiew people that DID make good maps. But who plays good maps on B-net ?

So Tuxedo_Templar and Bolt_Head are not good map makers ? And we all suck because most of us did not reach the level of fiew mappers ?

Get over yourself.


This post is so funny for me that I don't even know how to think about it - as a bad joke or a very ***** post. Do you really think that LW is an attention whore ? Then you might as well call yourself an attention whore. Why ? Oh well, you had the CD topic filled with useless spamm and crap, but you didn't like it when it got closed. You said something like this in the shoutbox (can't quote, I just remember you telling approx. this) "I needed it to advertise CD". Isn't "advertising" mean "getting attention to something" ?


I will still trust him. If you think that he was wrong, think about it this way: "He made a mistake. Who doesen't make them ?"


Amen. Nobody cared about OSMAp that much, because "Map stealers that use OSMAp are everywhere" turned out to be just a wrong theory. Nobody saw them, nothing serious happened.

If there would be so much OSMAP'pers, why didn't the coolest maps get stolen yet ? Hell, if there is so much map stealers, why didn't Rush get stolen ? And it's not protected ! What are you all waiting for ?!

What do I personally think about OSMAP ?

I think that not all maps should be protected. And it's up to the creator to decide. For example:

Some of you know, that I'm a huge Thing fan, and I'm making my own version of the map that should soak up all my huge experience. I plan to protect it. Why ? I tell you: I've seen a lot of times how not morons in b-net play rigged, crappy, disbalanced, unprofessional versions of the map and leave. If they played a good version they would stay, and probably get into it. I do not want random morons change the map so the people that have brains leave when they try it.

OSMAP can help learn. I, for example, did learn some things from other maps. But lucky I am, I found maps that were not protected and have things I was interested in. It's hard to understand all those masses of triggers, so it's much better to look in the tutorials/wiki to find an accurate, full explanation with examples.

Moral side of unprotection ? I support one thing: everybody KNOWING that you created the map. All the fame stuff is just stupid - you must get over yourself if you really think this "fame" ofer the internet is important. The internet is a place, where 10-12 year olds hang out and spread their noobishness. So tell me, why the hell would you want to be popular for 12 year olds ? It's like being popular in the kindergarden. Do you care about those children ? Will then have any impact on your life ? Can they boost your ego somehow ? If you want an ego boost, get the most sexy girl in your town as your girlfriend.

B-net/SEN ? You should not care about b-net, as stated before. Only SEN can truly rate your work. Nobody at SEN can steal your map (If you submit your map as soon as you finish it and if you have a production topic).

I'm split on this question.

LW im suprised. I was in channel op sen and devilesk was spouting crap about you and MA making OSMAP. I told him off, screamed at him, got really pissed because i knew you were making Uberation to save us from this evil program. All i can say is this is the most two faced thing i have ever seen. You go around making protection, being on SEN and trying to help in the topic we had against OSMAP, when all the while you only wanted to know the methods we came up with so you could get around them. More then anything though LW, i trusted you as one of the people we could have to use intrust our new protections to, so that a program could be made against OSMAP. I now, hold you in a low standard. I know my word might not count for much to you, because at the end of the day im just a kid on the internet, but if there was some way i could make this personal enough to get to you, i god damn well would.

You sicken me LW. My only hope is i never read another one of your posts.

-Le0n

I'm taking up the courageous helm of the innocent. En garde, vile villain of vindictive vehemence!

What he-whose-name-shall-never-again-be-spoken has created is anarchy. He has given the power to the people, and never again shall there be authority such as might stand to guide us, defend us. He has killed democracy!

Well i really never saw that coming...
Anyway it's quite fun to see some people who once blamed OSMAP now say that they supported unprotection in the first place. Go brown-nosing -_-..

And i kinda agree, with le0n.. If u want to make an unprotection program, it's Fine. But when u make it, and then play a goody goody guy who wants to help everyone and backstabs everyone at the end, – that's just dumb and immature..

I think he was not playing a goody goody and "betray us" in the end. If he really wanted to betray he could have never confessed.

And he did not betray us, he just wanted to help.

Hes got one freaking funny way of showing it. I just went through the eight pages and theres definately a line. Alot of people that have been here awhile, and even newer people like myself are on both sides on this. I think moose needs to decide what to do here. I personally think LW should be banned from this site permenantly. I really wish it wasnt Lw. If it couldve been anyone else i wouldve been happy. Because if it wasnt LW, we would still have some freaking hope in hell of how we can beat OSMAP. Now the only programmer to ever give us any peace of mind on our maps has betrayed us, and its not pretty. Infact, if i had the knowlege id start making a counter-program right now. The point is SEN doesnt have anyone as smart as LW that is dedicated enough to help us. Weve been doomed. Unless we can band together and create a way around OSMAP, and any future versions LW might release, we are truely freaked.

However, seeing as Bnet SC is going down in beautiful blue protoss flames, im moving to a private SC 1.12b server. Feel free to join me.

-Le0n

oh stfu leon. He didn't need to know what "protections" you came up with to get around them. You just pulled that out of your ass. Unless you can clearly show me the code you all put together and showed him, you need to shut the f**k up and sit the f**k down.

You, le0n, sicken me.

As many intelligent people, you not included, have said. This will not kill map making. It may hinder the "bragging" and the "honor of MM", but it will stay very much alive. I recently have played 2 good maps that were both unprotected... guess what... i've only seen 1 version of each.

Knowledge should be shared not covered up. I am very fond of open source, take SMF (Simple Machines Forum) a free PHP forum as an example, l have learn't how to do allot of things in PHP by reading it's source, that l would most probably never have found out how to do on the web.

The same can be applied to map making, if your map is unprotected people can learn how you did certain triggers and then use those triggers in their map.

Why be selfish and hide the "source" from them? I know this website has a large trigger tutorial file, but l myself like to see how people actually implement them into a map and learn allot better that way that from just reading a tutorial.

So some people may change your map and say it's their's, that happens on bnet allot. Shouldn't the importent thing be that everyone at Staredit knows you have made it? Wouldn't they then want to download the origional version? Not some 10 year old kid's version....

My 2 cents anyway

~ lil_nemesis

Le0n, you're now thinking of him as an evil programmer that wishes to win over protection at any cost. Think logically: he is beyond that.

Im not talking about me personaly. Im talking about SEN, before the hacking, when we had a big topic on how to counter OSMAP. A few people came up with ways and were going to send them to LW to incorporate into Uberation, but that obviously wasnt going to happen. Secondly, you need to calm down. Is it impossible for you to express yourself in a more calm manner? If so you need some help. Your not impressing anyone by screaming at them to shut up. I havent told anyone to shut up here, this topic is clearly useful on expressing opinions on protection and unprotection on maps. Dont like the topic of it? Does it infuriate you to the point where you have to try and make every one shut up and think your right because your so sure you are? I suggest you dont view the topic then.

GG

-Le0n

I have one word....
wow

One thing I've noticed, for the record, is that people who would likely be in most "need" of unprotection are probably newb enough to not even know about it being around. Those who've known about it thus far are mappers who care enough to do so; mappers who are probably at least already acquainted with mapping to be productive on their own. These people probably also know where to get help formally anyway, so the only real reasons for them to want to peek into unlocked maps probably arn't gonna be altogether sincere ones.

Anyway, it's still skub, frankly. I suggest we close this topic as there's really nothing left to be said that hasn't already been said. Except maybe what to do with LW.

Burn him, alive.

-Le0n

You selfish lieing son of a female dog. I home kids beat you in school. illegitimate child. You were lieing to us all the time.

I wonder why moosey havent banned you yet, as he did ban devilesk. I start to undestand those hackers...

Addition: Fat freak

DEAD is one of the few sensible people left, obviously.

-Le0n