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The first thing thing holysin stated about the deaths, I have thought about too, but in a different way. I was thinking about how over the centuries, armies have been doubled if not tripled, the deaths have also multiplied. Back then thousands would die in just one hour (look at the battle of antietam), you of course felt it was for the good of the country. Now in modern day, when 1 man dies, its a national tragedy. Yes I feel for their families, but we can't let only 2000 deaths tear this country apart. We shouldn't of went in there bt now that we are, we must stay.

Back on topic: Chris Abe didn't free the slaves because it was the right thing to do, in fact he even stated that. He freed them because it would undermine the South's production capabilities and economy. I believe he said: Don't actually quote that as its not his exact words.

Also, Sleeper cells have been around for over 2000 years. During the Crusades, muslims had men inside the walls of jeruselum (I doubt the christians had anyone with dark skin to infiltrate the muslim camps.)
You see Chris, they captured that german citizen (a citizen of another country! I don't even believe he was in the US at the time...) tortured him, flew him around the world to one of their secret prisons, then released him when controversy arose... I underlined the main part.

BTW Cheeze, Anarchy isn't a bad thing, or as the better name for it is: Libertarian Socialism. http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html

Cheeze is also right in the fact that Abe did those things,even though they were wrong, not because he wanted to protect the citizens of the US, but because he wanted to preserve the Union which was in danger of a political and economic collapse. People were also pissed about the draft: the movie Gangs of New York, that city takeover really happened. Not sure about that gang fight though but the mobs did take over. Also had people like tamany who was trying to influence the poor with gifts or money. Forced people to vote, even took dead people and had them vote (don't ask how).

The fore fathers believed their beliefs were more important then their lives and those of their families. They felt it would benefit all the people of the country and generations to come.

BUSH IS A FARKING IDIOT!

I just don't see how someone can do all these things and still some people stand up for him.

how can u stand up for him its just creepy.

Because that is how manipulators work. They manipulate people into believing them (I had my friends turned against me because of a manipulator)

the world is out to get you, man

Lack of a debatable arguement = Spam.

And sorry, but no. Bush is out to get me.

not having a debatable argument is spam?

No but few words with no significance to the topic is.

it has as much "significance to the topic" as your post does

He's only following what you do, since you've killed the topic with your continues spam.

Actually it can be said that I'm not because I'm retaliating to your useless comment/spam. Now get back on topic and quit defiling SEN with your factless theories, your inherent rambling, and your 12-y/o-ness.

Enough with the flames in return. You're only feeding the fire -_-

only thing close to a flame in that past was the "12-y/o-ness" which is just my observation.

this is turning too much into a debate. i feel that enough of us have expressed our feeling for bush, obviously most of us hate him.

this topic should be locked

That is what the serious discussion is about, Cloud. Debate. With reasonable and plausible aruements that can be debated

The, is clearly to much of a greyie/greenie to comprehend the proper way to do things here.

But I agree. It should be locked now, because there is nothing more to debate.

last time i looked at the forum name it was "Serious Discussion" not "Serious Debate"
but meh, if you want to see it that way, fine with me im not going to try and say otherwise. as long as you agree that the topic should be locked

If you discuss something, you usually Debate it.

*Tsk tsk tsk* Greenies these days.

Pwease lock this topic

You obviously don't know what a debate or a discussion is... They are the same thing! You discuss your views, why they are your views and in the process try to get the other person to believe you.