Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2006-06-03 at 23:13:28
Min (and everyone else!): I'm not talking about religion. If you relate to religion in anyway (maybe there are exceptions, but I can't think of any), I'm going to ignore the argument because it's not what I'm trying to focus on.
DeadlyInnocence: Yes, I'm trying to be persuaded. I want to know if you actually know what you're talking about when you choose to be an atheist.
Also, I already said: there are many, many things not scientifically proven that you accept in everyday life.
Choerdius:
You're trying to argue through Occam's Razor. While true, this applies to many things, you cannot dismiss an argument if the only reason you choose not to believe it is based on this.
You argue by saying you'll never learn anything by accept a god. While this might be true in some ways, why must one reject the idea of god in its entirety? Is it not possible for such a being to exist? If it's not possible, then surely, you must have some evidence. This is the advantage of being agnostic; as the atheists have against thesists, the burden of proof now lies on the atheists.
Remember, I'm an agnostic; try to think of my arguments from that perspective, not a theist. It might help with a lot of your reasoning arguments (which are pretty good
).
DeadlyInnocence: Yes, I'm trying to be persuaded. I want to know if you actually know what you're talking about when you choose to be an atheist.
Also, I already said: there are many, many things not scientifically proven that you accept in everyday life.
Choerdius:
You're trying to argue through Occam's Razor. While true, this applies to many things, you cannot dismiss an argument if the only reason you choose not to believe it is based on this.
You argue by saying you'll never learn anything by accept a god. While this might be true in some ways, why must one reject the idea of god in its entirety? Is it not possible for such a being to exist? If it's not possible, then surely, you must have some evidence. This is the advantage of being agnostic; as the atheists have against thesists, the burden of proof now lies on the atheists.
Remember, I'm an agnostic; try to think of my arguments from that perspective, not a theist. It might help with a lot of your reasoning arguments (which are pretty good
).Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-06-04 at 01:13:54
I'm an ATheist because when my cat died,I though "God" would help.Nothing ever helped me.At that point,I realized Eternity isn't possible and the question of what created God came up.I became Atheist na d my life is lax and fun.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-06-04 at 01:35:23
Cheeze. What the hell are you arguing? What kind of "reasons" can we supply if the other side is making claims without evidence? We don't believe it because there isn't evidence, and we find the claims to be baseless.
I mean, you can't display God in an equation like 1+1, so you can't really argue for his existence to everyone because it's up to them to decide on the truth of that claim. Still, you're trying to convert people with "logic", thus making another pointless thread.
As an end note, I'd like to say that "playing devils advocate" doesn't mean nitpicking at people's reasons for their beliefs, it's displaying the opinions of the other side, which you have failed to do.
You want my reason? Here's one that should work for what you're arguing: I built both a prototype God detecting machine and the functional God-Detectomatic® 1.0 and both gave me absolutely no readings at all.
I mean, you can't display God in an equation like 1+1, so you can't really argue for his existence to everyone because it's up to them to decide on the truth of that claim. Still, you're trying to convert people with "logic", thus making another pointless thread.
As an end note, I'd like to say that "playing devils advocate" doesn't mean nitpicking at people's reasons for their beliefs, it's displaying the opinions of the other side, which you have failed to do.
You want my reason? Here's one that should work for what you're arguing: I built both a prototype God detecting machine and the functional God-Detectomatic® 1.0 and both gave me absolutely no readings at all.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cole on 2006-06-04 at 03:13:46
QUOTE
Min (and everyone else!): I'm not talking about religion. If you relate to religion in anyway (maybe there are exceptions, but I can't think of any), I'm going to ignore the argument because it's not what I'm trying to focus on.
I didn't even say religion in my post.
I talked about God and I mentioned his kingdom, Heaven. What are you trying to focus on? Being Atheist means not beliving in a god. If I cannot talk about god then how can I tell you why I don't believe in him when you ask me to.
QUOTE
You argue by saying you'll never learn anything by accept a god. While this might be true in some ways, why must one reject the idea of god in its entirety? Is it not possible for such a being to exist? If it's not possible, then surely, you must have some evidence. This is the advantage of being agnostic; as the atheists have against thesists, the burden of proof now lies on the atheists.
Why should I believe in something you cannot prove to me? Why should I accept your god. You give me no reasons.
I do not care if you believe in a god, that is your personal choice. I don't judge you by it. But when you ask me to believe in him why should I change my ways?
You argue that we are rejecting your god. Well you reject the belief of no god. Therefor if you reject my beliefs, why should I accept yours?
I am not saying your god dosn't exist. What I am saying is that you have given me no reason for me to believe that he does exist. Infact science could one day say "Hey god exists" and have full logic proof behind it. Then I will believe in him becuase I have been given a reason. That reason would be the logic behind him.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-06-04 at 07:56:33
I belive in God.
I think people are atheists not becawse lack of proof, but becawse of their mentality. Just like some see extreme sports fun, while others wet their pants just from this phrase "Extreme sports".
People become more pragmatical. Belive in God ? That's not practical today !
That's what I think.
I think people are atheists not becawse lack of proof, but becawse of their mentality. Just like some see extreme sports fun, while others wet their pants just from this phrase "Extreme sports".
People become more pragmatical. Belive in God ? That's not practical today !
That's what I think.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-06-04 at 09:08:04
just about
The person below me is out of school for the summer
The person below me is out of school for the summer
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kashmir on 2006-06-04 at 12:13:47
They are predicting china to surpass us as a super power by 2020. While this does not surprise me and I wouldn't want them to be the leading one. I feel the US needs a rival to check our moves.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-06-04 at 12:17:47
I think if nothing serious (like a war or a huge disaster) happens, USA & China may become like the USA & USSR were some time ago. There is no place for 2 superpowers in the world.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-06-04 at 12:32:49
I bet China will own the US if we had a war, because we are so dumb. I dont mean we as the citizens of the US. I mean president Bush is so numb in the head. He aughta be kicked! He can't rule this country. I cant wait for a new prez. I mean if we cant defeat Iraq we cant take down a big country like China. I know in terms of war we have beetin Iraq because we practically own it but what we are trying to do is get everyone in it to be on our side! Thats not going to happen. Just Kill them, if we kill an innocent bistandered, whoops get over it and just get the job done! I am not trying to be mean but this is not working. 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2006-06-04 at 12:37:24
QUOTE
I'm an ATheist because when my cat died,I though "God" would help.Nothing ever helped me.At that point,I realized Eternity isn't possible and the question of what created God came up.I became Atheist na d my life is lax and fun.
Why does it matter? I never said he had to be the first thing. You people are mixing my arguments about god and religions' idea about god. I ask for the possibilty of god. Not the existance of god. There is a difference!
QUOTE
Cheeze. What the hell are you arguing? What kind of "reasons" can we supply if the other side is making claims without evidence? We don't believe it because there isn't evidence, and we find the claims to be baseless.
I agree. Theists are making a claim. From my point of view, you're also making a claim. Therefore, you must have evidence to back it up. Your claim? God does not exist. This is a claim because you've made a judgment. You've decided in your choice for the existance of god. Logically, you must have reasons.
As I said, however, if you say your beleifs are focused on faith (as you have in the last 2 posts), then stop arguing with me. You're just like the theists.
QUOTE
I didn't even say religion in my post.
I talked about God and I mentioned his kingdom, Heaven. What are you trying to focus on? Being Atheist means not beliving in a god. If I cannot talk about god then how can I tell you why I don't believe in him when you ask me to.
I talked about God and I mentioned his kingdom, Heaven. What are you trying to focus on? Being Atheist means not beliving in a god. If I cannot talk about god then how can I tell you why I don't believe in him when you ask me to.
No you didn't. Not specifically "religion". However, Heaven is a religious concept. I never supported the idea of heaven. I'm talking about specifially god. Nothing more, nothing less. I want reasonings why god cannot exist, not why religion is false. After all, just because you prove religion false, it doesn't that guarantee that god does not exist.
QUOTE
Why should I believe in something you cannot prove to me? Why should I accept your god. You give me no reasons.
I do not care if you believe in a god, that is your personal choice. I don't judge you by it. But when you ask me to believe in him why should I change my ways?
...
I do not care if you believe in a god, that is your personal choice. I don't judge you by it. But when you ask me to believe in him why should I change my ways?
...
When did I say I believed in a god? See, this is why I'm agnostic. Atheists think two dimensionally. Either there is, or there isn't. I argue for agnosticism. That's why all of my arguments are for the possibility of god, not god's existance.
Read:
QUOTE
Remember, I'm an agnostic; try to think of my arguments from that perspective, not a theist.
http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopi...ndpost&p=499107
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Snipe on 2006-06-04 at 12:37:48
The united states isn't powerful.. Just one of the big powers. They gained their power from the industrial revolution and ability to run their way out of most of their problems such as stock market crashing. Money usually brings power.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by JaFF on 2006-06-04 at 12:40:36
QUOTE(7-7 @ Jun 4 2006, 07:32 PM)
Just Kill them
[right][snapback]499355[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]499355[/snapback][/right]
Just kill them... just kill who ?
QUOTE(7-7 @ Jun 4 2006, 07:32 PM)
This is not working
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[right][snapback]499355[/snapback][/right]
It will not work in any way, becawse Iraq was a dead idea from the very beginning.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Snipe on 2006-06-04 at 12:48:51
i agree.. it's basiclly like a game. Always trying to get ahead, haveing to take the next step, and rely on yourself. It's a scary thought thinking of life. There are to many variables and to many.. confusing subject involved. I just let the chips fall where they may.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cole on 2006-06-04 at 12:52:16
QUOTE
No you didn't. Not specifically "religion". However, Heaven is a religious concept. I never supported the idea of heaven.
Then discard my last sentence.
Do you believe that god exists? If so why?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ice_Inferno_X3 on 2006-06-04 at 13:38:33
it probably won't last much longer with this global warming problem and us earthlings continuing to ignore the problem
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-06-04 at 13:49:18
What claim am I making? I don't believe in their claim, that's not a claim. Perhaps the definition shall help you:
Claim:
A statement of something as a fact; an assertion of truth.
I'm not asserting "truth", I am not making a "claim" towards the nonexistence of God, I deny the truth of another statement. You're trying to make it sound like another theism, then go and criticize everyone who doesn't believe, even though they're not a group. People who do not like cheese are not a group, those who like gormuet cheeses are. I don't know how to make this any simplier for you.
Claim:
A statement of something as a fact; an assertion of truth.
I'm not asserting "truth", I am not making a "claim" towards the nonexistence of God, I deny the truth of another statement. You're trying to make it sound like another theism, then go and criticize everyone who doesn't believe, even though they're not a group. People who do not like cheese are not a group, those who like gormuet cheeses are. I don't know how to make this any simplier for you.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Syphon on 2006-06-04 at 13:57:07
QUOTE(7-7 @ Jun 3 2006, 04:15 PM)
[center]Another thought, Suicide[/center]
Why do people do it?
It is one of the most selfish things you could possibly do. You think your having a bad life, so your answer is to kill yourself, right! Well you mine as well kill your gfamily too. Killing yourself puts your family into somehting you killed yourself because of. Commiting suicide hurts more people harder than how the people feel about themeselves to commit it!
[right][snapback]498747[/snapback][/right]
Why do people do it?
It is one of the most selfish things you could possibly do. You think your having a bad life, so your answer is to kill yourself, right! Well you mine as well kill your gfamily too. Killing yourself puts your family into somehting you killed yourself because of. Commiting suicide hurts more people harder than how the people feel about themeselves to commit it!
[right][snapback]498747[/snapback][/right]
So accourding to you the answer IS murder suicide? I have much to plan.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by l)ark_13 on 2006-06-04 at 16:10:07
People commit suicide because they are so fed up with something.. basically they are giving up. I think suicide would be acceptable though when you have nothing more to accomplish, nothing more to live for, no more dreams to try and make real. Basically then you have no reason to live, if you've accomplished everything you wanted to in life.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by l)ark_13 on 2006-06-04 at 16:13:12
QUOTE
l)ark_13:
Why do you say so? Have you met him?
Why do you say so? Have you met him?
Have you met him --or her-- CheeZe?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2006-06-04 at 16:39:32
I think I might be getting what Cheeze is saying.
Do you think there's a possibility that a god exists? Likewise, do you think there's a possibility that a god doesn't exist? Agnostics would say yes since a possibility isn't a claim. But saying no to either of them is claiming God either exists or doesn't; narrows it down to a two dimensional view.
Do you think there's a possibility that a god exists? Likewise, do you think there's a possibility that a god doesn't exist? Agnostics would say yes since a possibility isn't a claim. But saying no to either of them is claiming God either exists or doesn't; narrows it down to a two dimensional view.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Choerdius on 2006-06-04 at 16:40:50
QUOTE
I was brought up as a fairly generic Christian (Church Of England). We never went to church (except for the usual weddings, funerals etc.), we never said grace before a meal, we were never threatened with HELLFIRE! It was just sort of assumed that God/Jesus/Bible was the way of the world, and as a little kid you don't know any better - you believe what the grown-ups tell you. In school we had to say prayers at the start and end of each day, and I suppose we thought everyone all over the world did the same. Everyone thought that bad people go to Hell and good people (like us) go to Heaven. Religious Education at school was based almost entirely on the Bible - the stories of Abraham, the tribes of Israel and so on - other religions were mentioned in passing, but the Jewish/Christian mythology was the only one studied to any depth (naturally, the atheistic viewpoint was never mentioned, and the atrocities and absurdities in the Bible were either avoided entirely or glossed over). Christianity was always there, in the background of our lives. I had a Bible in my bedroom and even read it on occasion (gasp!).
When I got older, at about eighteen, I began to question my beliefs. I had learnt about many other religions (not in great detail, but I had a fair idea of what they were all about) and started to wonder why I believed the things I did. My head was full of all these odd notions that had accumulated over the years and didn't quite seem to match up to the real world. I reviewed what I knew of the world - geology, biology, evolution, cosmology etc. and realised that religion didn't explain things anywhere near as well as science. It was all too vague and fuzzy and implausible. The inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible made me doubt it - if I had a physics book that was as full of glaring holes as the Bible is, I would have thrown it out. I couldn't help but wonder why, if there was a benevolent God looking after us all, did so many people suffer and die all around the world - He didn't seem to be doing His job very well. (The religious answer was that He was doing his job, but He was doing it in a Mysterious Way, incomprehensible to mere mortals - scoring an 8.5 on the Sagan Baloney Detector.)
I also became quite suspicious of organised religion in general. I would often hear preachers asking people to believe things that I knew were simply not true. I noticed that many people appeared to believe because they thought it was expected of them (If you ever watch TV Evangelist shows, you'll see this happen. Nobody ever jumps up and says "Hang on! That doesn't make any sense at all!" - everyone sits there, nodding and Amen-ing at everything the preacher has to say. Don't talk while the vicar is speaking, don't question, just listen and accept it. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing). I noticed the way that religions discouraged people from thinking too deeply about them, or from asking tricky questions. I noticed that Christians were not the only people who deeply and sincerely believed in a deity - these conflicting religions could not all be correct, so why should we believe one and not the other? All the religions claimed a monopoly on Truth, Love, Happiness, Justice, Morality. It slowly dawned on me that maybe they were all wrong...
I began to realise that the world (and indeed the universe) in which I lived was entirely consistent with one that has no God, no Creator, no Guiding Intelligence. There was no valid reason to believe that any sort of a God existed. God became just another supernatural critter that people seriously believed in despite the lack of evidence, like Bigfoot, alien-abductor and lake monsters. I don't necessarily think that all religious people are deluded, irrational nuts (although a minority certainly are - see my feedback pages). I just think they're mistaken, and may very well hold perfectly rational and coherent reasons for their beliefs.
I saw that many people had different reasons for believing in Gods, including (somewhat over-simplified):
* They had simply been indoctrinated at an early age, and the beliefs became so much a part of their life that the idea of questioning or doubting simply never occurred to them. They believe it because they have just always known it to be true. (As mentioned above, people usually end up with whatever the religion of their family happens to be.)
* They feel that we must be here for a purpose. The universe and this beautiful Earth cannot all be a pointless accident, and God is the best explanation. We are all here for a reason, but only God knows exactly what that reason is and we'll just have to trust him.
* A sense of justice. It's not fair for evil people to commit all sorts of terrible acts and simply escape punishment by dying. The idea of heaven/hell ensures that good people are rewarded and bad people are suitable punished.
* A deep objection to being merely "animals". Many creationists, for instance, are offended at the idea that humans simply evolved along with all other animals. God made us separate and special, and we have a "soul" but the animals do not (biological snobbery?).
* Comfort. Many people find it very comforting to believe that a loving God is always watching over them and caring for them, and when anything good or bad happens to them, this is all part of his Plan for their life. Also, religion is obviously very comforting when faced with the death of a loved one. It's much easier and more reassuring to believe that Grandma is free from pain now, up in Heaven with Jesus where she's waiting for us to join her for eternity, than to think that she has simply ceased to exist and the universe will have forgotten her in a couple of generations.
* Afterlife. It seems almost incomprehensible to believe that when your body dies, your existence ends. Sensation and awareness are so much a part of our existence that it is extremely difficult to imagine no longer being able to experience anything. Try to imagine that, for example, a big meteor crashes into your house and instantly kills you at the end of this paragraph. We just cannot imagine not existing or abruptly ceasing to be aware and conscious, and so it is quite natural to think that something will continue to exist after the death of our brain. It's a short step from there to accepting the idea of an immortal soul, and heaven or reincarnation or some other form of afterlife.
So, I questioned my beliefs and they didn't stand up to much scrutiny. I abandoned religion as it had nothing to offer me (it had never really played a big part in my life anyway) and set off down the Road Of Truth.
When I got older, at about eighteen, I began to question my beliefs. I had learnt about many other religions (not in great detail, but I had a fair idea of what they were all about) and started to wonder why I believed the things I did. My head was full of all these odd notions that had accumulated over the years and didn't quite seem to match up to the real world. I reviewed what I knew of the world - geology, biology, evolution, cosmology etc. and realised that religion didn't explain things anywhere near as well as science. It was all too vague and fuzzy and implausible. The inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible made me doubt it - if I had a physics book that was as full of glaring holes as the Bible is, I would have thrown it out. I couldn't help but wonder why, if there was a benevolent God looking after us all, did so many people suffer and die all around the world - He didn't seem to be doing His job very well. (The religious answer was that He was doing his job, but He was doing it in a Mysterious Way, incomprehensible to mere mortals - scoring an 8.5 on the Sagan Baloney Detector.)
I also became quite suspicious of organised religion in general. I would often hear preachers asking people to believe things that I knew were simply not true. I noticed that many people appeared to believe because they thought it was expected of them (If you ever watch TV Evangelist shows, you'll see this happen. Nobody ever jumps up and says "Hang on! That doesn't make any sense at all!" - everyone sits there, nodding and Amen-ing at everything the preacher has to say. Don't talk while the vicar is speaking, don't question, just listen and accept it. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing). I noticed the way that religions discouraged people from thinking too deeply about them, or from asking tricky questions. I noticed that Christians were not the only people who deeply and sincerely believed in a deity - these conflicting religions could not all be correct, so why should we believe one and not the other? All the religions claimed a monopoly on Truth, Love, Happiness, Justice, Morality. It slowly dawned on me that maybe they were all wrong...
I began to realise that the world (and indeed the universe) in which I lived was entirely consistent with one that has no God, no Creator, no Guiding Intelligence. There was no valid reason to believe that any sort of a God existed. God became just another supernatural critter that people seriously believed in despite the lack of evidence, like Bigfoot, alien-abductor and lake monsters. I don't necessarily think that all religious people are deluded, irrational nuts (although a minority certainly are - see my feedback pages). I just think they're mistaken, and may very well hold perfectly rational and coherent reasons for their beliefs.
I saw that many people had different reasons for believing in Gods, including (somewhat over-simplified):
* They had simply been indoctrinated at an early age, and the beliefs became so much a part of their life that the idea of questioning or doubting simply never occurred to them. They believe it because they have just always known it to be true. (As mentioned above, people usually end up with whatever the religion of their family happens to be.)
* They feel that we must be here for a purpose. The universe and this beautiful Earth cannot all be a pointless accident, and God is the best explanation. We are all here for a reason, but only God knows exactly what that reason is and we'll just have to trust him.
* A sense of justice. It's not fair for evil people to commit all sorts of terrible acts and simply escape punishment by dying. The idea of heaven/hell ensures that good people are rewarded and bad people are suitable punished.
* A deep objection to being merely "animals". Many creationists, for instance, are offended at the idea that humans simply evolved along with all other animals. God made us separate and special, and we have a "soul" but the animals do not (biological snobbery?).
* Comfort. Many people find it very comforting to believe that a loving God is always watching over them and caring for them, and when anything good or bad happens to them, this is all part of his Plan for their life. Also, religion is obviously very comforting when faced with the death of a loved one. It's much easier and more reassuring to believe that Grandma is free from pain now, up in Heaven with Jesus where she's waiting for us to join her for eternity, than to think that she has simply ceased to exist and the universe will have forgotten her in a couple of generations.
* Afterlife. It seems almost incomprehensible to believe that when your body dies, your existence ends. Sensation and awareness are so much a part of our existence that it is extremely difficult to imagine no longer being able to experience anything. Try to imagine that, for example, a big meteor crashes into your house and instantly kills you at the end of this paragraph. We just cannot imagine not existing or abruptly ceasing to be aware and conscious, and so it is quite natural to think that something will continue to exist after the death of our brain. It's a short step from there to accepting the idea of an immortal soul, and heaven or reincarnation or some other form of afterlife.
So, I questioned my beliefs and they didn't stand up to much scrutiny. I abandoned religion as it had nothing to offer me (it had never really played a big part in my life anyway) and set off down the Road Of Truth.
http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/why_become.html
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Detestable_Evil on 2006-06-04 at 16:44:40
So an atheist is a person that disbelieves in the existence of god(s) and/or goddess(es).
I believe in gods and goddesses, but I disbelieve them to be omnipotent.
They posses not infinite strength nor wisdom, but rather they are free, in a sense they are stronger than us and are omnipotent.
They are not under the constriction of logic is what I believe.
For them to be perfect they would have to be beyond the limitations logic binds us with or any other things that may bind them.
Science only applies to those who live in this existence, for them they might be under other rules that may or may not apply to us.
Therefore I disbelieve gods/goddesses are perfect.
If they were indeed beyond logic, then maybe they don't have any genders or they have more than just male and female.
My previous signature stated that I believe everything exists. So this is what I think.
No one can claim gods/goddesses are false because we are do not posses omniscience, and know absolutely everything.
At the same time, we can't prove they exist either for the very same reason.
Because we are not omnipotent nor omniscience, we have no real proof of anything existing or not... right?
Anyways this is what I think. This is on topic right?
I believe in gods and goddesses, but I disbelieve them to be omnipotent.
They posses not infinite strength nor wisdom, but rather they are free, in a sense they are stronger than us and are omnipotent.
They are not under the constriction of logic is what I believe.
For them to be perfect they would have to be beyond the limitations logic binds us with or any other things that may bind them.
Science only applies to those who live in this existence, for them they might be under other rules that may or may not apply to us.
Therefore I disbelieve gods/goddesses are perfect.
If they were indeed beyond logic, then maybe they don't have any genders or they have more than just male and female.
My previous signature stated that I believe everything exists. So this is what I think.
No one can claim gods/goddesses are false because we are do not posses omniscience, and know absolutely everything.
At the same time, we can't prove they exist either for the very same reason.
Because we are not omnipotent nor omniscience, we have no real proof of anything existing or not... right?
Anyways this is what I think. This is on topic right?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cole on 2006-06-04 at 16:58:40
QUOTE
No one can claim gods/goddesses are false because we are do not posses omniscience, and know absolutely everything.
At the same time, we can't prove they exist either for the very same reason.
At the same time, we can't prove they exist either for the very same reason.
If you cannot prove something to me, then I have no reason to believe in what your saying. I wont say there is no god, but I will say that in my opinion there are no gods which is the same thing as saying "I don't believe in any gods".
Some people wonder how earth and the universe could all come to be. Maybe Aliens did all this why don't you believe that they did all this? Maybe were all in a Matrix type world, why don't you believe in that? There just as good of reasons.
The aliens were just "here" you know like "god" and there a massive species that have waged wars against other aliens that were just "here" and they created us as an attempt to help them when our technology is advanced enough. That is just as plausable as a god, why do you not believe in it.
I have no proof, but you cannot prove me wrong. You see how stupid such logic is?
There are just as many plausable explanations as a god. How come you chose 1 god, and not 2? or 3?.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-06-04 at 17:00:46
According to your logic, any nutcase can come out of the woodworks, make a stupid claim, and you can't "disprove it", despite that not being proper procedure of logical conjecture. The proper way to make a claim is as follows: First, research previous, similiar theories and evidence they were based to make sure your hypothesis has not already been disproved. Than, state your hypothesis, providing evidence for all your points and then sum up how all these elements form the final theory.
You guys seem to have grasped that it's impossible to disprove something, but haven't got your minds wrapped around the idea of providing evidence for a claim instead of throwing out your dogma and asking for an argument.
You guys seem to have grasped that it's impossible to disprove something, but haven't got your minds wrapped around the idea of providing evidence for a claim instead of throwing out your dogma and asking for an argument.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Detestable_Evil on 2006-06-04 at 17:36:59
Cloning... just as my science teacher said before and the textbook:
"The only good that can come from cloning is having them as organ bags." and that is sinister. When you clone a person, the clone is not the original person. That person is their own being.
Cloning can only clone their looks, immunity and other things you start off with when you come into this world.
You can't clone a deceased relative and have them exactly as they were before.
For war purposes? Like the clone troopers? Just as bad as organ bags.
If you would not do what you plan to have a clone do, please go die... no... jump into a pit full of fire ants.
Even if you would do it, would they?
Away from cloning humans...
If you think that animal testing is good then cloning other animals for scientific purposes would be ok.
I for one don't think so.
Even if you may save countless numbers of people, do you deem animals as inferiors? (Lets get away from that before I go off topic.)
So as Cloud said before about cloning endangered species, I think it's a good idea but just as all things good will most likely have negative outcomes with it.
For one people may just store DNA of animals rather than actually having them and renewing them every several years just like plant samples.
Two, people might see (if not already) animals just as items, inferiors, etc...
By the way DeadlyInnocence? Cloning doesn't change the DNA build... at least I think it doesn't, anyways, the changing of DNA is not cloning since cloning copies DNA rather than makes them. And you are right, certain movies will portray cloning as making deformed versions of people.
A movie that my teacher pointed out is that there was one movie where the clones begged to be killed, however when they are formed, they wouldn't feel pain would they? It's not like a person without limbs feel that their missing pieces are in intense pain as if they were being torn off repeatedly. Right?
Basically, I think that... Cloning = bad, but not senseless nor stupid.
(In order to obtain something good, one must either pay now or later for it. Either them or another. So long someone pays the price required for what they have purchased. Somethings though it must be paid for persistently to maintain it (like internet), failure to do so will lead to repossession, or something like that.)
End of boring thingy. (You'd really gotta be interested in this subject to read this I think...)
"The only good that can come from cloning is having them as organ bags." and that is sinister. When you clone a person, the clone is not the original person. That person is their own being.
Cloning can only clone their looks, immunity and other things you start off with when you come into this world.
You can't clone a deceased relative and have them exactly as they were before.
For war purposes? Like the clone troopers? Just as bad as organ bags.
If you would not do what you plan to have a clone do, please go die... no... jump into a pit full of fire ants.
Even if you would do it, would they?
Away from cloning humans...
If you think that animal testing is good then cloning other animals for scientific purposes would be ok.
I for one don't think so.
Even if you may save countless numbers of people, do you deem animals as inferiors? (Lets get away from that before I go off topic.)
So as Cloud said before about cloning endangered species, I think it's a good idea but just as all things good will most likely have negative outcomes with it.
For one people may just store DNA of animals rather than actually having them and renewing them every several years just like plant samples.
Two, people might see (if not already) animals just as items, inferiors, etc...
By the way DeadlyInnocence? Cloning doesn't change the DNA build... at least I think it doesn't, anyways, the changing of DNA is not cloning since cloning copies DNA rather than makes them. And you are right, certain movies will portray cloning as making deformed versions of people.
A movie that my teacher pointed out is that there was one movie where the clones begged to be killed, however when they are formed, they wouldn't feel pain would they? It's not like a person without limbs feel that their missing pieces are in intense pain as if they were being torn off repeatedly. Right?
Basically, I think that... Cloning = bad, but not senseless nor stupid.
(In order to obtain something good, one must either pay now or later for it. Either them or another. So long someone pays the price required for what they have purchased. Somethings though it must be paid for persistently to maintain it (like internet), failure to do so will lead to repossession, or something like that.)
End of boring thingy. (You'd really gotta be interested in this subject to read this I think...)