Report, edit, etc...Posted by Choerdius on 2006-06-04 at 18:07:29
QUOTE
In my opinion we should not start cloning human beings, because I think there is no need and no reason to do it. Why do we need duplicates of men or women? I am sure that nobody is so important for human life that we have to rebuild him/she. Further I cannot agree with people, who will clone human beings to use them as a warehouse. E.g. if they have problems with their heart or with their lungs, they will take the clones´ hearts or lungs. That is wrong. I believe that everybody's life is designed by nature and we should not interfere with it. In addition to that, there are no financial means to develop and to pay for the necessary technology.
So, when you clone a man or woman, you don't know which rights he/she should have. It is in question, too, if a clone will be accepted by society. If not, there will arise two groups: clones and normal people, which are made "by nature".
We know this situation from Hollywood - one possibility can be war! But on the other hand, cloning special people like Einstein can be very useful for mankind. And to prevent arguments between clones and "gods children" you just put the clones scientists into a closed terminal and let them think there all the day: a think tank!
But that is fiction. So cloning just leads to conflicts!
To tell you the truth, it is wrong. They're messing around with God's work. Now don't get me wrong, cloning the organs can save lives. But just think how many people or animals they could kill just trying to get one human or sheep. Didn't they say that it took over 277 sheep to get Dolly. Dolly already has arthritis at five years old. That is really sad. I hope that they don't get too far into this before something bad happens.
So, when you clone a man or woman, you don't know which rights he/she should have. It is in question, too, if a clone will be accepted by society. If not, there will arise two groups: clones and normal people, which are made "by nature".
We know this situation from Hollywood - one possibility can be war! But on the other hand, cloning special people like Einstein can be very useful for mankind. And to prevent arguments between clones and "gods children" you just put the clones scientists into a closed terminal and let them think there all the day: a think tank!
But that is fiction. So cloning just leads to conflicts!
To tell you the truth, it is wrong. They're messing around with God's work. Now don't get me wrong, cloning the organs can save lives. But just think how many people or animals they could kill just trying to get one human or sheep. Didn't they say that it took over 277 sheep to get Dolly. Dolly already has arthritis at five years old. That is really sad. I hope that they don't get too far into this before something bad happens.
http://www.topics-mag.com/readers/cloning-forum.htm
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Detestable_Evil on 2006-06-04 at 18:48:09
QUOTE(Min @ Jun 4 2006, 02:58 PM)
If you cannot prove something to me, then I have no reason to believe in what your saying. I wont say there is no god, but I will say that in my opinion there are no gods which is the same thing as saying "I don't believe in any gods".
Some people wonder how earth and the universe could all come to be. Maybe Aliens did all this why don't you believe that they did all this? Maybe were all in a Matrix type world, why don't you believe in that? There just as good of reasons.
The aliens were just "here" you know like "god" and there a massive species that have waged wars against other aliens that were just "here" and they created us as an attempt to help them when our technology is advanced enough. That is just as plausable as a god, why do you not believe in it.
I have no proof, but you cannot prove me wrong. You see how stupid such logic is?
There are just as many plausable explanations as a god. How come you chose 1 god, and not 2? or 3?.
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Some people wonder how earth and the universe could all come to be. Maybe Aliens did all this why don't you believe that they did all this? Maybe were all in a Matrix type world, why don't you believe in that? There just as good of reasons.
The aliens were just "here" you know like "god" and there a massive species that have waged wars against other aliens that were just "here" and they created us as an attempt to help them when our technology is advanced enough. That is just as plausable as a god, why do you not believe in it.
I have no proof, but you cannot prove me wrong. You see how stupid such logic is?
There are just as many plausable explanations as a god. How come you chose 1 god, and not 2? or 3?.
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??? You're right we can't prove each other wrong can we?
??? Multiple gods? Sure there could be, we don't know.
QUOTE(Wilhelm @ Jun 4 2006, 03:00 PM)
According to your logic, any nutcase can come out of the woodworks, make a stupid claim, and you can't "disprove it", despite that not being proper procedure of logical conjecture. The proper way to make a claim is as follows: First, research previous, similiar theories and evidence they were based to make sure your hypothesis has not already been disproved. Than, state your hypothesis, providing evidence for all your points and then sum up how all these elements form the final theory.
You guys seem to have grasped that it's impossible to disprove something, but haven't got your minds wrapped around the idea of providing evidence for a claim instead of throwing out your dogma and asking for an argument.
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You guys seem to have grasped that it's impossible to disprove something, but haven't got your minds wrapped around the idea of providing evidence for a claim instead of throwing out your dogma and asking for an argument.
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Evidence could throw a person off track. (Ex: An elephant's tail trunk is snake-like thingy, but that's only part of the picture.)This is getting all confusing now.
Perhaps I should have rephrased it as "One can not prove or disprove anything that one is not certain of." But isn't that common sense? Yes!
But now that I think about it, does this apply to large things only?
I'm confusing myself.
Now I'm thinking I'm getting off topic...
Or maybe I'm trying to say "You can't disprove anything that relates to absolutley everything or something beyond your reach."
But that's till common sense. Well I lack common sense so I learned something today!
Anyways sorry for contributing the idiot count on SEN. T.T' Mesa idiot TT
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (DI)Yulla on 2006-06-04 at 19:13:13
You completely ignored my post. The last section of my post stated that religion is to be solely based on faith and nothing more. We cannot disprove or prove god's existance unless we advance through the "heaven," as you religious people call it. Because the religion only bases its views upon faith, you cannot scientifically prove the existance of supernatural being. And therefore, i cannot argue with scientifical facts that god does not exist. And what you are asking me to do is the exact opposite: you are expecting us, the athiests, to rather persuade you not to believe in religion. I shall post on this topic later.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2006-06-04 at 19:18:00
QUOTE
Have you met him --or her-- CheeZe?
I don't need to. You made the claim:
QUOTE
He is useless to me and has no purpose.
I ask you to prove it.
QUOTE
Do you believe that god exists? If so why?
Did you read anything I wrote? I specifically said I was agnostic.
QUOTE
What claim am I making? I don't believe in their claim, that's not a claim.
...
I'm not asserting "truth", I am not making a "claim" towards the nonexistence of God, I deny the truth of another statement.
...
I'm not asserting "truth", I am not making a "claim" towards the nonexistence of God, I deny the truth of another statement.
I am also rejecting that statement. I also reject Min's (which is essentially the same as yours I believe) statement:
QUOTE
I will say that in my opinion there are no gods which is the same thing as saying "I don't believe in any gods".
Thus, you have made a claim and I want you to support it. Despite what you may think, there are three sides. Those who accept the god's existance, those who don't, and those who choose neither.
You're one of those who has made a choice already. You're on the absolute side; you have an opposite. If you're on the opposite of theism, you must have also made a claim.
QUOTE
I have no proof, but you cannot prove me wrong. You see how stupid such logic is?
There are just as many plausable explanations as a god. How come you chose 1 god, and not 2? or 3?.
There are just as many plausable explanations as a god. How come you chose 1 god, and not 2? or 3?.
If it's so plausible, why do you choose to deny the existance of god entirely? Why not accept that there is a possibility?
QUOTE
According to your logic, any nutcase can come out of the woodworks, make a stupid claim, and you can't "disprove it", despite that not being proper procedure of logical conjecture.
I'm not saying you can disprove their claim. I'm asking you to prove your claim. For the last time, I am not asking you to accept the existance of god. I don't accept it. Nor do I deny it. I only want you to give me reasons why you're atheist.
If the only reason you are is because another religion (not god) doesn't make sense, then that's not logical at all as it only assumes that there are two possibilities. Why does a god have to be religious at all?
It seems MillenniumArmy is the only one who understands my position. If he understands it, you guys should too. I was afraid I provided to little logic in my post; but since he got it, I know now that I provided enough.
Choerdius: You're still focused on religion. If religion is the only reason you're atheist, refer to the argument above. (Starts with "If the only...")
DeadlyInnocence: Of course I ignored it. It's irrelevant. I don't care about religion. Refer to the above.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cole on 2006-06-04 at 19:55:17
QUOTE
Thus, you have made a claim and I want you to support it. Despite what you may think, there are three sides. Those who accept the god's existance, those who don't, and those who choose neither.
You're one of those who has made a choice already. You're on the absolute side; you have an opposite. If you're on the opposite of theism, you must have also made a claim.
You're one of those who has made a choice already. You're on the absolute side; you have an opposite. If you're on the opposite of theism, you must have also made a claim.
I voiced my opinion. I have supported it. I do not have to support my opinion because I have nothing to prove to you.
I do not believe in a god because those that want me to have failed to provide me with any reason that I should. That is my reason, it's as simple as that. Once they can give me reason I will.
If you cannot understand that then you fail to understand me and you never will, because you refuse to.
QUOTE
If it's so plausible, why do you choose to deny the existance of god entirely? Why not accept that there is a possibility?
I choose to deny the existance of god until I have been givin a reason to accept him.
I am not saying god doesn't exist, I am saying I do not believe that he exists until you give me the proof. Which means that there is a possibilty.
There is a possibily that I am lying and that i am agnostic. There is a possibility that this world will end in a second after you read this. There is a possibility that this is a dream. There is a possibilty that you are god, there is a possibility that you are the pope. There is a possibilty the pope is really a girl. There is a possibility that the moon will fall on us tommarow. There is a possibilty that I can take a crap and it will turn into gold. There is a possibilty that you are an alien. There is a possibilty that you do not exist. There is a possibilty that you are a machine. There is a possibility that you are taking a crap right now. There is a possibilty that we are in a video game. There is a possibilty that I am the pope, there is a possibilty that i am going to kill you in 5 seconds. There is a possibility that the holocaust took back in my back yard. There is a possibilty that I can fly. There is a possibilty that I am an X-Men, there is a possibility that my computer wasn't made on earth, there is a possibilty I am a terrorist, there is a possibilty I am a bird. There is a possibilty I can fart and blow up russia. There is a possibility that 5 seconds ago the world blew up and that I survived and so did everyone else. There is a possibilty that I will be the president tommarow. There is a possibility that we will meet and be gay togeather tommarow. There is a possibility that I will have a nuke dropped directly on me in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0. There is a possibility that I live in an underground cage with King Kong. There is a possibility Godzilla is attacking New York as im typing.
THERE IS A POSSIBILTY FOR ANYTHING
I am not gonna sit around all my life looking at possibilies and what "might be", I am going to look for answers. That is why I do not believe in god, because I want to look for answers and not settle until I find them. If I find that he does exist beyond a resonable doubt then I will believe that he does exist. Until Then......
How logic is done in my brain, is something is false until proven true. That is how I was rasied and it is imprinted in my life.
Hey, Give me proof that there is a possibility that he might exist and that he might not.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (DI)Yulla on 2006-06-04 at 20:04:15
QUOTE(Min @ Jun 4 2006, 06:54 PM)
How logic is done in my brain, is something is false until proven true. That is how I was rasied and it is imprinted in my life.
Hey, Give me proof that there is a possibility that he might exist and that he might not.
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Hey, Give me proof that there is a possibility that he might exist and that he might not.
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QUOTE(CheeZe @ Jun 2 2006, 10:29 AM)
A lot of things in mathematics cannot be proven and are only assumed true. Perhaps one of the most popular is Euclid's fifth postulate.
It seems like it would be easy to prove; however, people have spent the last hundreds of years and failed.
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It seems like it would be easy to prove; however, people have spent the last hundreds of years and failed.
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I hate to refer to this post, and make cheeze repeat the same thing. But here it is.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2006-06-04 at 20:09:08
QUOTE
I am not saying god doesn't exist, I am saying I do not believe that he exists until you give me the proof. Which means that there is a possibilty.
There is a possibily that I am lying and that i am agnostic.
There is a possibily that I am lying and that i am agnostic.
Contradiction!
DeadlyInnocence, you understand my arguments? If so, w00t.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cole on 2006-06-04 at 20:12:19
I was hoping you might see that because, there is a possibilty I did not write that, but somebody else. Why didn't you take that into consideration?
Why do you only apply such logic to god, why not to everything?
You also failed to answer my question at the end of my whole post.
Why do you only apply such logic to god, why not to everything?
You also failed to answer my question at the end of my whole post.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (DI)Yulla on 2006-06-04 at 20:16:35
Are you trying to say all my argument was literally for nothing? I was only arguing how god doesn't exist.... And same with Min and other people... Seems like MA was viewing it from different view.. Good for him.
ADDITION:
Again... enough with the possibilities already. We get the point. But the question is that why are you atheist, not does god exist.
ADDITION:
QUOTE(Min @ Jun 4 2006, 07:11 PM)
I was hoping you might see that because, there is a possibilty I did not write that, but somebody else. Why didn't you take that into consideration?
Why do you only apply such logic to god, why not to everything?
You also failed to answer my question at the end of my whole post.
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Why do you only apply such logic to god, why not to everything?
You also failed to answer my question at the end of my whole post.
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Again... enough with the possibilities already. We get the point. But the question is that why are you atheist, not does god exist.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cole on 2006-06-04 at 20:22:32
QUOTE
Again... enough with the possibilities already. We get the point. But the question is that why are you atheist, not does god exist.
I've answered that. MY first posted I posted in this topic. I told why from me going to CCD at my church every wednesday to now.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by VizuaL on 2006-06-04 at 20:23:15
false a couple more days
the person below me is been here a while
the person below me is been here a while
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-06-04 at 20:55:22
Why are you trying to change everyone into Agnostics? You're supposed to be a neutral party. I'm not exactly an Atheist: I'm a rationalist. It fits met better, I'm willing to consider a claim when there's evidence. And Cheeze, how do you deny someone's personal belief? There's a difference between "I like eggs" and "Eggs are the best thing in the world for you!"
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-06-04 at 21:29:38
QUOTE(DeadlyInnocence @ Jun 3 2006, 10:24 AM)
the immigrants in this country is being completely ignored. They pay everything they have to and all they get back is the racism...
But i see the point that english should be the mother language and you guys here don't like that spanish is becoming more powerful now.
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But i see the point that english should be the mother language and you guys here don't like that spanish is becoming more powerful now.
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And that shows how much you understand this debate going on right now.
I can guess about no one here has a problem with legal immigrants.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-06-04 at 21:42:47
I think one of the only ways people who don't believe in God would start to believe in God is if some hollywood style miracle kaboom happened for the world to see and God did something amazing or he said something like "STFU NEWBS"
And even after that event it would be a stretch....
And even after that event it would be a stretch....
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)7-7 on 2006-06-04 at 21:48:40
couple months
the person below me has been here longer than i have
the person below me has been here longer than i have
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)Excalibur on 2006-06-04 at 21:56:34
Nope.
The person below me is one of these:
Asian
Black
White
Millenium Army (Seperate breed of asian.)
-DB
The person below me is one of these:
Asian
Black
White
Millenium Army (Seperate breed of asian.)
-DB
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-06-04 at 22:03:16
QUOTE(NuclearRabbit @ Jun 4 2006, 08:13 AM)
They are predicting china to surpass us as a super power by 2020. While this does not surprise me and I wouldn't want them to be the leading one. I feel the US needs a rival to check our moves.
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Our maybe economic rivals? At the current state of growth (not as in people) of China they will surpass us maybe by 2020, but as we all know many things can happen in 20 years.
QUOTE(7-7 @ Jun 4 2006, 08:32 AM)
I bet China will own the US if we had a war, because we are so dumb. I dont mean we as the citizens of the US. I mean president Bush is so numb in the head. He aughta be kicked! He can't rule this country. I cant wait for a new prez. I mean if we cant defeat Iraq we cant take down a big country like China. I know in terms of war we have beetin Iraq because we practically own it but what we are trying to do is get everyone in it to be on our side! Thats not going to happen. Just Kill them, if we kill an innocent bistandered, whoops get over it and just get the job done! I am not trying to be mean but this is not working. 
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omfg wtf hax like bush is so omfg newb he sux, he made my comp freeze, hes a fudgin jerk omfg I know what Im talking about.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2006-06-04 at 22:09:34
Only one person has responded this, but I'll quote it again:
If you know what you're looking for, good. At least know what you're expecting when you're asking for something.
I'm not asking for a response; I just want to make sure you guys know this.
QUOTE
I was wondering about this for a while, but if you're asking for proof of a god, exactly what do you expect to see? Ok hard evidence/proof, yes, but elaborate, like give an example, not just a definition of what the word evidence/proof means. Sometimes some people don't even know what they're looking for. And if you don't know what exactly you're looking for, you'll never find "proof," even if it slips right under your nose, since you can't recognize one when you see one.
If you know what you're looking for, good. At least know what you're expecting when you're asking for something.
I'm not asking for a response; I just want to make sure you guys know this.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-06-04 at 22:12:31
QUOTE(Kellimus @ May 26 2006, 06:36 AM)
QUOTE(TheDaddy0420)
I don't need to, its the same old crap, just with fancy words and so called sources.
Wait.. Wait a minute.. Let me get this straight.. It's the "same old crap with fancy words and so called sources" because:
A) It conflicts with your point of view
B) Has provided evidence against your argument and you cannot rebuttle it, so you try to debunk it
C) The source is "unreliable", yet it's from an actual Government website (The House Of Representative's to be exact) and the source is Republican/Conservative
Okay Chris. Please explain to us all how you come to the conclusion that it's "the same old crap, just with fancy words and so called sources" when it's cited from an official government website. Are you now going to change what you've been saying in all the other threads about how the government never lies and that they are good, only now to say that they do lie and that they are bad just because Euro has provided evidence that you cannot rebuttle against?
Do tell.
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When have I ever said the Government never lies?
I do believe awhile ago I post the Iraqi death count, from the iraqdeathcount.com or some website like that. It was either you, Nozomu, or Euro who stated something like.
"That death count is wrong becuase the only way that website got its stats is from the US government who recorded those deaths and since it is so corrupt we cannot trust the accuracy"
Or something to that extent
So tell me, chuckle, why should I believe something from the Government that you guys so strongly hate?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cole on 2006-06-04 at 22:29:17
I agree with you Millennium. I expect something that explains what and how was the beginning. I expect to be able to answer what is life really. Since nothing is random, if you know what was the very start. You could then know what would happen next, because nothing is random. It wouldn't be easy to know what would happen next as there are billions upon billions of factors to take into account.
When I think of life, the scope goes so far beyond everything. Not of human life but of anything and everything. Of energy itself. Beyond the Universe. A scope so beyond the universe. What? I mean I can't really explain the scope im talking about here. Why is there soemthing. How did something come to be. Why is there a Universe? I can't even begin to explain the scope I am talking about.
When I say life I don't mean earth. I'm talking about the Universe, galaxies, planets and not a matter of how it all formed. But energy and mass and why is it here. It's to hard to even begin to explain what I am talking about. You have to let your mind go as far as it can go and look down on everything and question it all.
I do not expect to find out, but only help to push the boundries so that someone else may.
When I think of life, the scope goes so far beyond everything. Not of human life but of anything and everything. Of energy itself. Beyond the Universe. A scope so beyond the universe. What? I mean I can't really explain the scope im talking about here. Why is there soemthing. How did something come to be. Why is there a Universe? I can't even begin to explain the scope I am talking about.
When I say life I don't mean earth. I'm talking about the Universe, galaxies, planets and not a matter of how it all formed. But energy and mass and why is it here. It's to hard to even begin to explain what I am talking about. You have to let your mind go as far as it can go and look down on everything and question it all.
I do not expect to find out, but only help to push the boundries so that someone else may.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Falcon_A on 2006-06-04 at 22:30:42
I'm white.
and partially puertorican....but let's just say white, because you wouldnt notice the Puertoricanness in me....
and partially puertorican....but let's just say white, because you wouldnt notice the Puertoricanness in me....
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Mp)Excalibur on 2006-06-04 at 22:55:21
Please scientificly explain to me the posablities of a supreme power that has always been creating everything. You have 10 mintues, go.
Nothing? I thought so.
-DB
ADDITION:
Tru.dat.
-DB
Nothing? I thought so.
-DB
ADDITION:
QUOTE(Rantent @ Jun 2 2006, 11:41 AM)
Because every idealology is simply people looking for an answer.
People.
Nothing else.
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People.
Nothing else.
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Tru.dat.
-DB
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-06-05 at 00:06:34
Min nothing goes beyond the Universe, for the Unvierse is truly the sum of all things, energy and matter. Perhaps the known universe fits your view, that there are things "beyond" it, but beyond that is just another part of the Universe. Seriously, people, the Universe is not technically a sphere, it's a flat surface extending infinitely outwards, and the curving of space/time makes it "seem" like a sphere.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by TheDaddy0420 on 2006-06-05 at 02:12:15
As far as we know. I think there are vast things scientists can still discover or have gotton completely wrong.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MasterJohnny on 2006-06-05 at 02:38:33
i am athestic because i am above the influence...i will not have religious things cloud my judgement