Staredit Network

I'll give this thing a spin later today, and post my replays. Is there anything I can't do (early attack with peon, etc.?

Of course, don't peon harass : | This will be unfair game. You can rush if you want, there is no "no rush" rules, as a real game is ^_^

If you want us to be impressed, make your game good, and try not use anti-computer manners like tank on cliff, ally mines, ally lurkers, etc.

It's your game ^_*

Well I can only speak for myself, but Racine, Entropy, Mike Klabbers and the rest of the BroodWar Ai project would definitely love for you to give it a try! There really isn’t much mystery to the Aiscript.bin file and the various Ai’s. Being that you are such a good player, your contributions/Ai scripts would surely be a reflection of how well you play! This is not to say that an otherwise “poor” player can’t write good Ai’s!

Where to start? You will only need 2 programs SCAIEdit III to build/edit/view the Ai scripts and WinMpq to extract/add them into patch_rt.mpq. Both of these files can be downloaded at http://www.campaignCreations.com in their program section.

SCAIEdit III comes with a nice example and a good help file. Mike Klabbers has also written a small tutorial that you can read at the project’s home page along with other member’s files. Also you can visit my incomplete and very scatter-brained site here for more info. My advice would be to just open existing Ai’s such as blizzard’s and the improved ones Racine, Mike, or I have made. Use these as a reference to how the various commands work.

One final word:
Again only speaking for myself, Improved Starcraft Ai’s are a bit pointless! Myself and most would rather play human opponents any day! There simply is no comparison. Why people ever connect to Bnet to play a compstomp game is beyond me…. Definitely weird. These Ai’s are really meant to enhance the single-player experience and possibly help improve your APM/micro skillz and a fun way to kill some time. So your efforts and time spent building/testing could possibly be more rewarding than the actual end result. While the process of writing/testing is fairly simple and straight forward, it can be rather tedious and time consuming. The “ART” of Racine’s Protoss and Zerg scripts you have been playing took him literally months to refine to what they are today. Here is his “complete” Ai without my Terran if you are interested. His Terran is much better than mine, as mine is juat a quick experiment. Also plz don’t use this Ai for this particular challenge as it will conflict w/ replays! Thnx, good luck, and plz do take a stab at Ai writing!

Racine’s complete 3.0Ai ----->[attachmentid=7198]

So, I can't tank their cliff? T-T

What else can the computer not respond to? Also, for fun, why can't it respond to those?

Wow very confusing..
Some of the links on CampaignCreations don't work. I think I have succesfully downloaded the SCAIedit thing and the WINMPQ. But I still have no clue how to open the original ais or save mine as something that can be selected in the editor. Can someone give me some help?

Fury, glad to hear you are actually serious about Ai scripting! Rather than write a long boring "help" post that only a handful of ppl could use, here is a streamlined help file that hopefully helps you avoid the ton of confusing problems I also faced starting out. [attachmentid=7211]

Be sure to check out Mike's tutorial at the Broodwar Ai project's home page. This will help you with the "editing" aspect.

ALSO... Don't abandon the challenge with your new Ai interests Your amazing play has been fun to watch. Your zerg play looks really impressive, and I can't wait to see you tackle what I feel is the toughest matchup ZvZ!! Good luck!

Finaly, the Zerg matchups. I have been playing now for 4 houres in a row. I played matchups of ZvP, ZvT and ZvZ. Unfortunately, I couldn't keep my non-defeat ride of AI as I would have liked. I posted my ZvP loss.

I first lost in the ZvP matchup. I didn't use effectively my zergling against the first attack, and it caused my all of my defensive sunkens death. Soon I couldn't do a come back fast enough and the second wave got me dead -_- gg!! : (

My second loss was ZvT. I had not enough sunkens ans mutalisk to hold the big first attack.. (my build order was pretty bad I believe) gg!!

My other losses were ZvZ, most of them were short less significative loss by the early zerglings rush. Just when I was going fast expansion, they rush, when I don't and get early defense, they don't rush and get air army before me and overpower me~~ ggs!! (I often restarted game when I saw the AI going hydralisk, because it was not his regular powerful air build)


But still, I managed to win all matchups, without a single lurker, without peons harass or any kind of anti-computer tricks. So I have now beat every matchups, and it's all of your turn now ^_^ Now I wait for YOUR replays!!!

[attachmentid=7227]
[attachmentid=7229]
[attachmentid=7230]
[attachmentid=7231]

Thnx Racine for not just one replay, but replays of the entire challenge! Being that you're actually the creator of the Toss, Zerg may have helped? Also thankyou for actually posting a losing replay! It's comforting to know that even really good players like you, with impressive 250+ Apm, don't always beat the Ai! I can now relate!

I don't know what your future plans are for advanced Ai's, but the Ai's you've built will be enjoyed by many single-player enthusiasts for years to come. Good job!

Note to post viewers: Racine is a French-Canadian University student. English is not his first language, and possibly not even 2nd or 3rd! Thankyou for your posts. I know how tuff it is to write in a foreign language!

Thanks Steve, I have not any future AI plan for now, as I know my wish is to make the computer units micro better, as well as macro skills. I think the insane AI are a way to counter-enjoy this problem, but I would still prefer a non $$ player with great skills : ) With ScAIEdit, I think we've reached a relative meximum for building Insane AI. Later in my life if I get the time again to work on this, I will certainly find a way to change the computer's poor micro

As the summer approaches, I will also go to work in wood probablly, and I'll be off computer for this time. In August, if I have enough time, I will practice and try again for WCG 2005 in my region.

Doing AI with you was very impressive, as you were very active in your work (unlike many I met), and always optimist, never showing hopeless. Before I will leave, I will give you my last insane P, so that it doesn't remain useless for months : )

By the way, this AI challenge was a very great idea! ~~

Yeah I know they still suck ... wait what? You got owned? O_o

I beat the comp, but I think there was a serious bug in the AI. It was PvT and he built quite a few marines and meds, no vultures and no seige tanks.

Oh yeah, when I first scouted the base, I was like "HOLY CRAP! WTF!! 3 FACTORIES?!?!". I still 1 Gateway without a core building. -_-

Yes, the reps have crappy names, rename them please.

Chu, you think these AIs suck? Post a replay of you kicking there asses please.

ADDITION:
I don't think anybody here has thanked you guys enough, Baja and Racine. You guys made a great AI, and is pretty freaking tough to beat, and a map to go with it. Then once you posted the map and AI, you made a challenge for us. This thread has seriously expanded the horizon for starcraft. Now, even the campaign is tough as hell, it makes comp games much more fun, and now we are sharing replays like crazy. Thank you so much for the AI guys. These replays not only show the skill of your AI, but it has us on edge the whole time and we are learning new strategies while playing/watching them.

Also, Baja, in many threads I have seen you supporting my maps, thank you so much.
Oh yea, your not the only one who gets romped baja!! Guy getting beat =me, guy with chair=AI

Cheeze : Thank you for your losing replay vs the Protoss AI ^_^ Still you did peons harass for both games!!! This is cheat against computer. It's why it caused the first game bug. Note that in all of our replay we didn't early attack computer with peons and did run/follow.

I admit your second game was good, and I couldn't tell who wins until the end ^_^ (why did it say P was eliminated? did you use the winning cheat code?)

I didn't mean to use my peons to attack. I sent it over to the base and it automatically attacked, blah. So then, free tip: make computer more human like, get rid of the peon attack, peon follow bug. XD


I wanted to quit but I couldn't because then, i would have no replay. So I just used a code to end teh game.

I have returned from trip a day early.... waves were totally flat!

Cheeze, I just watched your replays and it's quite clear that "the peon" harass was in fact a TOTAL ACCIDENT. your probe looks like it accidently attacked the barracks and caused the peons to react and ultimately crash Ai. This is not your fault, and I realize how tuff it is to scout w/ out accidently "touching" any enemy buildings. This is just how starcraft.exe works and there's nothing simply modifying the aiscript can do about it. So that's a real sucky deal, sorry!

As far as your "cheat" goes to end second game, you absolutely did the RIGHT thing! How else are you supposed to "quit" the game and still be able to have a replay? Ya you could use "game over man", instead of "Cow level", but it really doesn't matter!

As far as this TvP replay goes... This is really a cool and fun replay to watch! I would say that your "losing" replay shows more skillz than my "winning" replays put together!

You are also a very good player, and we are anxiously looking forward to seeing the replays of "REAL" games you played along with E)s-Fury in last month's SEN contest!

ADDITION:
Yenku, hehe Chuiu can be a very complicated person to understand sometimes. His posts can seem very blunt and come off as rude, but in fact are actually just heavy sarcasim. His style is very funny, and I sometimes don't get the humor in it till days later. In this example, while Chuiu is basically saying comps suck, and I mostly agree, read my "final word" in an earler post, Chuiu's "wait what you got owned? is his way of saying "ok maybe this Ai is a bit better than normal ones."

Also note I am not kissing Chuiu's azz as this reply may seem. I don't do the Azzkissing thing! (looks at girlfriend.... well maybe... )

And Yeah I too would love to have Chu show us a replay of him kicking this Ai's Azz!

And while were at it, where's Ihatett's? He said he would "give it a spin"???
in his posts twice!

nice reps cheeze.

ADDITION:
Oh I just thought of this, when this thread is done, we should make a zip file and submit it to the dldb with the AI. Then everyone can see our greatness! XD

Fhew.. The battle with the Zerg was much harder then the Terrans. I think the Zerg makes excellent use of the fact that they have the large amounts of money. Only with the resource command could you support and army of almost pure ultralisks.. Poor Terrans..

Protoss vs Zerg

Game1: I lost.. Dam Ultralisks.. [attachmentid=7307]
Game2: Yeah so I photoned him.. What? [attachmentid=7308]

Terran vs Zerg

Game1: I lost.. Again.. [attachmentid=7309]
Game2: Winner!! [attachmentid=7310]

Zerg vs Zerg

Game1: Very easy.. [attachmentid=7311]

Finally.. The Protoss.. They were easy.. Had some fun in the pvp game cause I knew how I was gonna beat them. Might be worth watching for some laughs.

Terran vs Protoss: [attachmentid=7402]
Zerg vs Protoss: [attachmentid=7403]
Protoss vs Protoss: [attachmentid=7404]

The AI's are way better than blizzards but they are still far from difficult for me to defeat. I supported and helped the AI project back when it was fresh out of Racine's head ( http://www.entropyzero.org/BroodwarAI.html ).

Also, I really hate how you let them cheat.

Well chu its hard for an AI to be good with out extra minerals. You can teach them how to react in each situation, or good scouting or walling things. Those are the tactics that humans use to win. And computers cannot do that.

Yes Chuiu your web link definitely helped me when I was struggling to understand the workings of patch_rt.mpq and the various scripts last year. Your help did not go unnoticed. Thank you.

As far as the “cheating” goes, Ya we would like nothing more than a “non-cheating” Ai to beat a descent player. Because the aiscript.bin file however has nothing to do with “unit control” this is a pipe dream. Without free money, the Ai can never be a challenge. Is this Ai easily beatable? Yes in a lot of instances absolutely! Especially if you use anti-computer manners. Starcraft.exe is only 1mb. The internal “Ai” r&d I’m sure was merely a minute detail. Ya starcraft had to have a single-player mode, but it was banking on the Multiplayer aspect to carry it to stardom.

About 2 months ago Racine and I decided to have a little Ai challenge. With this challenge we would both write what we felt were our best NON cheating Ai’s. No free money was to be used. While we tried to get these to work in a UMS format, they simply behaved very Nastily and did weird things! You can read more here http://www.staredit.net/index.php?showtopic=12737. So we abandoned the UMS idea and constructed 2 mixed aiscript.bin files. One file would have his Terran and my protoss, zerg, and vice-versa.

While his scripts were far more “creative” and “realistic” than mine, I used the “best” possible unit combinations despite their “unpopular” and “off-beat” approach. Of the 12 prerecorded “blank” replays we watched his Ai won 2. Were mine better? NO, this only proved that so called standard “build orders/unit choices” are effective ony with human micro management. This same Ai however would be a total pushover vs a human.

If you are curious, here are our “best” attempts at a NON cheating AI along with a couple of replays. If you or anybody else would like to “CHALLENGE” these Ai’s against one of your OWN be my guest! I would welcome and be overjoyed to engage in an AI WAR!
[attachmentid=7433]

P.s. Fury I just downloaded your replays and I will get back to them ASAP Thnkyou

Wait, what combinations did you use? Did you use the established good ones, or did he?

Woah, cool reps, they are very amusing, thanks.

sorry to take so long to get back. I was away for about 2 weeks workin in SLO.

Thnx again for the replays Fury! When I made this little challenge I expected a few ppl to submit a couple of replays, but didn't imagine anyone would play ALL 9 matchups! @ 30 minutes each this is like 4+ hours! It was really fun to watch your different techniques and how easily you beat the cheating comp. I'm reallly glad to see you had some fun games too! Thnx again.

I'm also sorry to hear you couldn't get SCAIEdit to work properly. It would be fun to see you build some Ai scripts of your own! I wish I could help solve your errors with this program. There are a lot of really "comp-savy" ppl here at SEN that might be able to help you get this to work or solve this problem. I just don't know what forum to suggest you seek help in? Maybe ask Chui?