Staredit Network

It's already poping up on other sites. Right now as it stands, it appears that 80% are in favour of the program as a whole (1 can tolerate it) about 17% can tolerate it now, but don't like what its turning into, and 3% doesn't like it.

If anyone wants to remake this poll on other community websites (please copy & paste what I said in the first post) then please go ahead and tell me the results.

The 4th one is what I chose. I can accept viewing triggers, it makes it easier for people to learn and get in to mapping.

However... I don't like what this is turning (could turn?) into, which is a program that lets people view every part of a protected map. And then one jackass adds an editing feature. (Note, not saying MindArchon. I don't believe that he would ever add an enditing feature.)

Then boom, the perfect unprotector.

As of now its roughly 60/40.

The Trigger Viewer is good because you can see how to do something if you get confused, you can check how well everything is put together, etc.
But what is really important is you cannot steal maps with it. Unprotectors you can edit the map and stuff.

One reason I find it really important is because viewing triggers is how I learned them. I would go into a map, look at the triggers, figure out what is what and what does what. Then I would try it and see how it is done.
Now with protectors you can't do that anymore because people do not want you to edit the map. Now there is Trigger Viewer that lets you see the triggers, but not harm the map; making everybody happy. (You possable learn something new, their map doesn't get harmed/stolen)

EDIT:
Just as long as it stays for viewing triggers, nothing more, it will be good.

EDIT#2:
Wow, its more like "Map Viewer" now... (I havn't been paying any attention to it )

4th one. (I wish there was some kind of revote button...)

its a brilliant idea because newbs like me can find out how certain things tic, but i also think its a bad idea becuz other nubs who look at the triggers will just copy them into their own map

Yoshi, you should include in the first post what Trigger Viewer is turning into for many people don't know.

Learning triggers by looking at other people's work doesn't exactly work.

I updated TriggerViewer, so if the trigger has an unchecked never condition, the trigger is "protected".

There is currently no limit on how many can be hidden, but if Legacy makes a program that makes a unchecked never condition for every trigger, I will make a limit.

I also removed every feature except for trigger viewing and location viewing.

How interesting. It'd be funny if Legacy managed to do that though. I wasn't aware of any feature besides location and trigger viewing?

If you put secrets in your map thats your problem.
I've also seen very few maps that actually contain such secrets that can be revealed by looking at the triggers.

Chances are, if a person can reverse engineer the program, add a feature which actually saves it into the proper chk format, then they could make themselves that program seperately in the first place.

If you leave it at that, I can accept it.

I guess for most people this is a win-win situation. Two people will have to just deal with it.

Looking at triggers can help. It can give you ideas about a certain concept and how to do it with triggers, such as learning grid systems. By looking at what each trigger does you can figure it out yourself.

With MindArchon's new post (Trigger viewer only viewing locations/triggers and a protection method for secrets) I like Trigger Viewer alot more.

If you look at triggers that contains death counters and you're not aware of their purpose, it'll be very hard to understand. Viewing other people's triggers are a suppliment to trial and error triggering. You can't go on map making copying someone else's triggers. You can trial and error trigger till you're very good, and learned everything, but you can't just do that by looking at other people's triggers. It's kinda how replays can help you get better at melee, assuming you're watching good replays, but you need to practice alongside watching replays.

Yea of course, first you have to understand each trigger, but viewing other triggers can help you understand one particular method that might string together triggers in a clever way you never thought of. Also like if you see something in a map and you don't understand how they did it, viewing triggers would help.

You still have to practice as I said. You can't learn everything from looking at what someone else did.

It worked for me. Just by the map "Mixed Turret Defence" I learned a bit death counters, switches, displaying text, how to order units, a bit of AI and what it means, Creating/Killing units, and all the good stuff that was wrapped up in that tiny map.
If it weren't for that map, triggering would have been alot slower for me.

EDIT: Another way it helps is you edit some minor thing and notice the changes. Then you learn what happened so you know what does what.

And you looked at it through Trigger Viewer right?

Hey... Chu's 1337!!!11!!!!

Anyways. I really don't care... I want to help MindArchon so I'm testing it for him. but looking at this stage, I don't think it would be much problem.
Mapping is innovative. You cannot just keep an idea to yourself. And not every system is triggered the same way. And if everyone was like that, wanting to not let other people know about the map, then I'm sure, mapping wouldn't improve globally.

Normally I don't post..but I think I need to.

Now I do agree that other people should be able to see how you did things thus improving the overall.... quality of all the maps rather than just yours.
Map Making is not competitive..or at least shouldn't be.

Now a while back I was thinking of a feature. This would get directed tword SI I guess.... SI what if you added a feature in Scmdraft 2 that would allow people to save there triggers in a entirley new format. They could choose triggers that people didn't want to see so they wouldn't be included.

Of course you would need some place to store these or else..what use would they be? You could have a databae...right here at sen? A database that well could almost represent the history of who was the first to do what. People could see how they did it and the triggers that the map maker dosn't want anyone to see wouldn't even be in the file. In the end....I don't know... maybe a waste of time coding? Also as long as the map maker protects his map(and it never gets unprotected) he could be the only one to even create this file.

Either way, I don't mind people seeing my triggers, but there are those that do and well I respect that. Though I don't want to see how things were done covered up from the rest of us. If there revealed they can be expanded upon, and used to help all the other map makers with there maps giving much better quality to starcraft map making.
Anyway thats my take on the best way for this whole thing..... but im not to active anymore..
Whatever the case, hope everything works out for the best.

(Edit) oh and just a thought.. you could put this entirley new file in the scm\scx....of course this would take up space..but it would make the concept a bit more.. "Universal".

-Fogo "The Min"

I really don't think another file format is necessary.

yea me neither. But it is a fun thing to help you with triggers. It goes either way.

Which is why I said putting in the scm/scx. Of course as I said this would take up more space...you could probably simplify it enough so it would in the end take up very little.
It was an idea that would be over the top fullproof. I mean it wouldn't be all that hard in the end.
I do know that Blizzard didn't do there trigger section(for the chk file) that well. Meaning you could have a trigger with just about nothing..and another trigger with tons of stuff and have them take up the same amount of space(Discluding strings), and yet the trigger section dosn't take up to much. You could simplify this even more and in the end the amount of space you add on wouldn't be an enormous amount if you made a new format and put it right into the scm/scx.

It's just an idea that would be going a little far, and possibly...in the end... worth it?