Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-06-03 at 16:32:25
Yea im gonna agree with probably the majority of yall. Toss will own (but not rape) all races
Report, edit, etc...Posted by wesmic da pimp on 2005-06-03 at 17:56:03
You guys are underestimating the other races. Terran can go anywhere and has range advantage in unit battle. If protoss is too worried about cannoning the entrance then zerg could have a complete creep takeover preventing any expansion by protoss.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-06-03 at 19:28:12
wes, lets 1v1 like this now, you T and me P.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by decafchicken on 2005-06-03 at 22:27:49
Zerg is completely owned in this scenario unless you 4 pool or something -_-
Protoss can block with zeals + cannons and cannon push with zeals until they hit creep, then overwhelm with zeals + contain. Same thing with terran, except they use bunkers/rines. Zerg's strength lies within their tech. And i THINK p>t, not sure though.
Protoss can block with zeals + cannons and cannon push with zeals until they hit creep, then overwhelm with zeals + contain. Same thing with terran, except they use bunkers/rines. Zerg's strength lies within their tech. And i THINK p>t, not sure though.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-06-03 at 22:38:57
I think a good bunker rush by Terran might give them an edge over the Zerg in a TvZ, but you never know if it will work or not.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Ultimo on 2005-06-03 at 22:47:03
Couldn't T lift off a CC and land on another expo that is unacccessible by other races?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by decafchicken on 2005-06-03 at 23:03:25
QUOTE(devilesk @ Jun 3 2005, 10:38 PM)
I think a good bunker rush by Terran might give them an edge over the Zerg in a TvZ, but you never know if it will work or not.
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Terran already has the edge with range + turtling abilities
Report, edit, etc...Posted by wesmic da pimp on 2005-06-03 at 23:12:52
QUOTE(DevliN_ @ Jun 3 2005, 09:47 PM)
Couldn't T lift off a CC and land on another expo that is unacccessible by other races?
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I already said earlier that I would put rocky ground on the islands at LT for this to be tried out and if there are no buildings on the ground, then they lose
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-06-04 at 03:15:58
In mineral only map it would ALL depend on the player. with a computer that worked like a human with perfect micro and extreme relfexes(instant control) it would be a stalemate the entire game in thereoy. That is the basic virtue behind race balancing. But with gas terran would win that fight. Broodwar is balanced perfectly up to minerals only. Wc3 is also extremely balanced to the smallest detail which can never be found because they dont have perfect computer AI's. Blizzard has spent years of balancing these thus making them =. You guys say all this stuff but it depends on who gets it faster or who expands here or scouts here. A perfect AI would do all of that. So the only true way to know is get a perfect AI(none exist). And the map has everything to do with it. Marines have range so if u had a map where there was an area to shell with infinite minerals the terran coudlnt be beat.(Range is everything) Also lifting= insta win. after shelling one base they can lift a cc and like 8 rax to another area land the rax pump the rine and then shell again extremely quick. So quick that the other race couldnt kill it fast enough. They could also land like 12+ raxes aand 3+cc in the other persons base and pump in rines and build scv's to build bunkers all over. BUnkers are crazy good. The whole balancing thing still depends on the player.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by decafchicken on 2005-06-04 at 09:24:27
QUOTE(Kept_Wheat @ Jun 4 2005, 03:15 AM)
In mineral only map it would ALL depend on the player. with a computer that worked like a human with perfect micro and extreme relfexes(instant control) it would be a stalemate the entire game in thereoy. That is the basic virtue behind race balancing. But with gas terran would win that fight. Broodwar is balanced perfectly up to minerals only. Wc3 is also extremely balanced to the smallest detail which can never be found because they dont have perfect computer AI's. Blizzard has spent years of balancing these thus making them =. You guys say all this stuff but it depends on who gets it faster or who expands here or scouts here. A perfect AI would do all of that. So the only true way to know is get a perfect AI(none exist). And the map has everything to do with it. Marines have range so if u had a map where there was an area to shell with infinite minerals the terran coudlnt be beat.(Range is everything) Also lifting= insta win. after shelling one base they can lift a cc and like 8 rax to another area land the rax pump the rine and then shell again extremely quick. So quick that the other race couldnt kill it fast enough. They could also land like 12+ raxes aand 3+cc in the other persons base and pump in rines and build scv's to build bunkers all over. BUnkers are crazy good. The whole balancing thing still depends on the player.
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Your theory craft was ok, till you started talking about erran floating. Honestly the worst thing i've ever heard... 12 RAX AND 3 COMMAND CENTERS IN YOUR OPPONENTS BASE? But with perfect Micro/Macro, it is not pefectly balanced. Terran wins because of range.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Slayer_dt_ on 2005-06-04 at 11:56:16
Guys, I dunno if you might know, but toss can use shield battery too. Let me list what each race can buy with just minerals.
Toss:
Nexus
Probe
Assimiliator
Pylon
Gateway
Zealot
Shield Battery
Cybernetic Core
Forge
Photon Cannon
Zerg:
Hatchery
Spawning Pool
Drone
Overlord
Zergling
Creep Colony
Sunken Colony
Evolution Chamber
Spore Colony
Extractor
Terran:
Command Center
Scv
Barracks
Refinery
Bunker
Marines
Engineering Bay
Missle Turrets
Academy
(If I've missed out any, tell me or post it up)
I think, in my opinion, terran will most probably win, because...
1) They can repair
2) Range
3) Liftoff (Unfair though...)
Toss:
Nexus
Probe
Assimiliator
Pylon
Gateway
Zealot
Shield Battery
Cybernetic Core
Forge
Photon Cannon
Zerg:
Hatchery
Spawning Pool
Drone
Overlord
Zergling
Creep Colony
Sunken Colony
Evolution Chamber
Spore Colony
Extractor
Terran:
Command Center
Scv
Barracks
Refinery
Bunker
Marines
Engineering Bay
Missle Turrets
Academy
(If I've missed out any, tell me or post it up)
I think, in my opinion, terran will most probably win, because...
1) They can repair
2) Range
3) Liftoff (Unfair though...)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by warhammer40000 on 2005-06-04 at 16:55:29
PS- 4 races in warcraft3. 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by flipmonkey on 2005-06-04 at 17:09:18
Everyone is even it just depends how a player uses them.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-06-04 at 18:45:31
i hate wc3, but their are four races and all are different
but the game is slow and imbalanced
ADDITION:
toss would own up zerg so easily.
slow lings get owned by slow zeals
toss could just hold choke with two zeals then get a fast forge, cannon their choke and move out + contain with cannons
zerg can't break a contain with slow lings alone
but the game is slow and imbalanced
ADDITION:
toss would own up zerg so easily.
slow lings get owned by slow zeals
toss could just hold choke with two zeals then get a fast forge, cannon their choke and move out + contain with cannons
zerg can't break a contain with slow lings alone
Report, edit, etc...Posted by warhammer40000 on 2005-06-04 at 18:47:03
flipmoney, omg. No, your wrong.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-06-04 at 19:01:44
i guess i can (i'm going somewhere at :45)
but what map will we use?
but what map will we use?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-06-04 at 19:11:47
make it quickly (just remove the gas), then come to op sen
i'll be there in 3 min, but I think tis whole thing is pretty gay
i'll be there in 3 min, but I think tis whole thing is pretty gay
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-06-04 at 19:34:46
cannons > slow lings
my money got pretty high because it was too lamely easy
ADDITION:
there was nothing you could have done that whole game
once i get cannons up you can't come in
ADDITION:
slow lings already get raped by slow zeals, and when you have f*cking cannons shooting at the lings as well, I don't see how you honestly thing that zerg has the advantage
it makes no sense
my money got pretty high because it was too lamely easy
ADDITION:
there was nothing you could have done that whole game
once i get cannons up you can't come in
ADDITION:
slow lings already get raped by slow zeals, and when you have f*cking cannons shooting at the lings as well, I don't see how you honestly thing that zerg has the advantage
it makes no sense
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-06-05 at 01:14:03
It isn't fair to challenge me and then say you weren't trying.
I'm sure you will agree that slow zeals > slow lings, right? Also, I'm sure you will agree that cannons take zero time to set up compared to sunkens (you must build hatch, then use several drones to build the creep colonies and morph them into sunks compared to building a pylon and then building a 7-8 cannons around it instantly). Lastly, you will agree that slow lings are absolutely owned by cannons, right?
Explain to me again why zerg is better?
I'll play you again, and I hope you don't decide to do something else while you are playing this time. I can play you tommorow.
As a side note, I don't see how being preoccupied can make you do poorly when there are only minerals. I had so little to do that game I was amazed. Without gas the game becomes rediculously simple.
I'm sure you will agree that slow zeals > slow lings, right? Also, I'm sure you will agree that cannons take zero time to set up compared to sunkens (you must build hatch, then use several drones to build the creep colonies and morph them into sunks compared to building a pylon and then building a 7-8 cannons around it instantly). Lastly, you will agree that slow lings are absolutely owned by cannons, right?
Explain to me again why zerg is better?
I'll play you again, and I hope you don't decide to do something else while you are playing this time. I can play you tommorow.
As a side note, I don't see how being preoccupied can make you do poorly when there are only minerals. I had so little to do that game I was amazed. Without gas the game becomes rediculously simple.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-06-05 at 02:43:21
ROFL
You don't need 2 hands for the phone.
I want this on record:
Do you really think you can get hatches up all over the map to prevent canoning with only slow lings to defend new expos?
Do you really think that zerg's lings will be able to beat toss's zeals? What the f*ck? I am amazed that someone who has played the game thinks this.
You theorycraft a whole lot, and then fail in your games where you try and prove your theories.
I can't wait until the rematch tommorow. It's like normal pvz, except zerg can't do shit once I survive the early attack (which you didn't do for some reason, you had 8 lings chasing my probe and never microed them once, even BEFORE the phone rang.
ADDITION:
Also, I am 99% sure that all towers have the same range. Do you have a source?
QUOTE
I use keyboard shortcuts ALL the time, I don't know what you do. I have one hand, and that hand has to be on the mouse. Which makes adding control groups really hard, using those control groups futile.
I said I was sorry for leaving, and I am, but I didn't really have much of a choice.
I said I was sorry for leaving, and I am, but I didn't really have much of a choice.
You don't need 2 hands for the phone.
QUOTE
Sunkens have greater range, creep disallows cannons, 4 lings > 1 zealot.
I want this on record:
Do you really think you can get hatches up all over the map to prevent canoning with only slow lings to defend new expos?
Do you really think that zerg's lings will be able to beat toss's zeals? What the f*ck? I am amazed that someone who has played the game thinks this.
You theorycraft a whole lot, and then fail in your games where you try and prove your theories.
I can't wait until the rematch tommorow. It's like normal pvz, except zerg can't do shit once I survive the early attack (which you didn't do for some reason, you had 8 lings chasing my probe and never microed them once, even BEFORE the phone rang.
ADDITION:
Also, I am 99% sure that all towers have the same range. Do you have a source?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-06-05 at 12:13:25
Heh, I'll be looking forward to this rematch, two people who think they are right and have been trying to put noobs in their place and have been fiercely defending their arguments are going to try to prove it in a game. I'm eager to see who will win this one.
I'd have to agree with ihatett plus I want him to prove PsychoTemplar wrong. I think the only way really that Z would win is if he starved out the P and expanded a lot and made lots of sunks as D. I'd say attacking a P with cannons and lots would be pretty hard with only lings unless you outnumber them a lot, and if the P builds cannons right outside the Z's base then it would be pretty hard for the Z to start something offensive.
Uh, don't quote me on that since I don't know what would happen
That's why I want to see the outcome of this game.
Btw, you don't need any hands for the phone
I'd have to agree with ihatett plus I want him to prove PsychoTemplar wrong. I think the only way really that Z would win is if he starved out the P and expanded a lot and made lots of sunks as D. I'd say attacking a P with cannons and lots would be pretty hard with only lings unless you outnumber them a lot, and if the P builds cannons right outside the Z's base then it would be pretty hard for the Z to start something offensive.
Uh, don't quote me on that since I don't know what would happen
That's why I want to see the outcome of this game.Btw, you don't need any hands for the phone
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-06-05 at 12:49:34
QUOTE
I don't have a hands free phone you prep. My phone is too small to balance on my sholder.
Don't call me a prep, and most phones can be balanced on your shoulder if you do it right, I'm sorry I didn't know you had an incredibly small phone. And I wasn't talking about a hands free phone you idiot.
Btw, I can balance my freaking cell phone on my shoulder
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-06-05 at 13:23:41
No, maybe you just held it in your hand just because you wanted to, it isn't "clear" it was hard to balance or anything.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-06-05 at 13:44:05
Maybe you didn't try hard enough using the phone without any hands
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-06-05 at 14:09:56
Maybe you are 