Report, edit, etc...Posted by notnuclearrabbit on 2005-07-01 at 04:30:05
[center]I like CPP, but I like the StarEdit trigger language better![/center]
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2005-07-01 at 04:41:46
Well, since I hardly know any, I'll just go with Starcraft triggering, which I do know, wuite well. I can't remember code because none of the commands really relate to what's happening, it's all too one word and nonsensical. I can remember Starcraft triggers because it's obvious that "give units" doesn't "end scenario in victory for current player".
Report, edit, etc...Posted by RexyRex on 2005-07-01 at 05:27:36
Hypertext PreProcessor by far. Why? Because it's the only programming language I am very fimiliar with. I just started C++, and I'm happy I finally made my own .exe program, but I still barely know any functions and I can't make anything useful yet.
VB: Don't think I'm going to learn it. No need to when I've got C++.
DTBK: About Python, how exactly do you run one of your scripts? Send the .py file to a friend? I'd use it if I knew how, it looks a lot like PHP.
VB: Don't think I'm going to learn it. No need to when I've got C++.
DTBK: About Python, how exactly do you run one of your scripts? Send the .py file to a friend? I'd use it if I knew how, it looks a lot like PHP.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by AqoTrooper on 2005-07-01 at 07:02:54
QUOTE(nuclearrabbit @ Jul 1 2005, 11:30 AM)
[center]I like CPP, but I like the StarEdit trigger language better![/center]
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QUOTE(Theoretical_Human @ Jul 1 2005, 11:41 AM)
Well, since I hardly know any, I'll just go with Starcraft triggering, which I do know, wuite well. I can't remember code because none of the commands really relate to what's happening, it's all too one word and nonsensical. I can remember Starcraft triggers because it's obvious that "give units" doesn't "end scenario in victory for current player".
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Come on people, do you even know what does the term 'programming language' means?
Making starcraft triggers does not equles programming.
When using Staredit, you use a Wizard program, when using Starforge or the trigger plug in SCMDraft 2, you fill in the blanks for an existing C++ code, none of those are programming.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BeeR_KeG on 2005-07-01 at 10:26:03
I only know CSS and HTML.
I'd have to go with HTML, it's far easier to program with and I can write the scripts pretty fast.
I don't have a lot of need for CSS, CrimsonEditor has a feature that pretty much does the job that CSS does, which is change the was your page looks very easily.
I'm planning on learning PHP when I do have the time. For now, I don't plan on going with anything besides Website Programming, if I ever consider anything besides that, I'd have to be C++.
I'd have to go with HTML, it's far easier to program with and I can write the scripts pretty fast.
I don't have a lot of need for CSS, CrimsonEditor has a feature that pretty much does the job that CSS does, which is change the was your page looks very easily.
I'm planning on learning PHP when I do have the time. For now, I don't plan on going with anything besides Website Programming, if I ever consider anything besides that, I'd have to be C++.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Clokr_ on 2005-07-01 at 10:37:29
I saw some replies saying that C > C++.
Well, C is more portable, and works on older machines, but C++ is more powerful. C++ have classes and C doesn't I think. All the cuurently used languages or more of them have support for objects, because they are very powerful. In C all you have are functions.
Secondly, cout is maybe uglier than printf but it's faster to write, and if you want printf you can use it. In my C++ programs I find sprintf very useful and I use it. Also, cout is for command prompt programs... every program right now has a GUI...
What I like about VB is that it's so simple to make the GUI. Even when the code might be slow, VB is very useful to make programs that doesn't need much speed or don't work with graphics, but they need a good GUI. What I don't like about VB is that it doesn't have pointers =P
DT_Battlekruser: python looks like VB with C-like words. And all those extra lines with {} etc of "java", C and C++ have them too, and I guess that PHP does too, and they are really helpful.
ADDITION:
Beer_Keg: As I said before HTML is not a programming language
Well, C is more portable, and works on older machines, but C++ is more powerful. C++ have classes and C doesn't I think. All the cuurently used languages or more of them have support for objects, because they are very powerful. In C all you have are functions.
Secondly, cout is maybe uglier than printf but it's faster to write, and if you want printf you can use it. In my C++ programs I find sprintf very useful and I use it. Also, cout is for command prompt programs... every program right now has a GUI...
What I like about VB is that it's so simple to make the GUI. Even when the code might be slow, VB is very useful to make programs that doesn't need much speed or don't work with graphics, but they need a good GUI. What I don't like about VB is that it doesn't have pointers =P
DT_Battlekruser: python looks like VB with C-like words. And all those extra lines with {} etc of "java", C and C++ have them too, and I guess that PHP does too, and they are really helpful.
ADDITION:
Beer_Keg: As I said before HTML is not a programming language
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-01 at 11:07:22
QUOTE(AqoTrooper @ Jul 1 2005, 04:02 AM)
Come on people, do you even know what does the term 'programming language' means?
Making starcraft triggers does not equles programming.
When using Staredit, you use a Wizard program, when using Starforge or the trigger plug in SCMDraft 2, you fill in the blanks for an existing C++ code, none of those are programming.
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Making starcraft triggers does not equles programming.
When using Staredit, you use a Wizard program, when using Starforge or the trigger plug in SCMDraft 2, you fill in the blanks for an existing C++ code, none of those are programming.
[right][snapback]249740[/snapback][/right]
Sure Triggers are programming. It's set up the same way
CODE
CONDITIONS:
-Always.
ACTIONS:
-Modify resources for Current Player: Set to 50 Ore.
-Always.
ACTIONS:
-Modify resources for Current Player: Set to 50 Ore.
That is very simple C++ code if it was C++
Example from "Teach yourself C++ in 21 Days":
CODE
#include <iostream.h>
int main()
{
int counter;
cout << "How many hellos? ";
cin >> counter;
do
{
cout << "Hello\n";
counter--;
} while(counter >0 );
cout << "Counter is: " << counter << endl;
return 0;
}
int main()
{
int counter;
cout << "How many hellos? ";
cin >> counter;
do
{
cout << "Hello\n";
counter--;
} while(counter >0 );
cout << "Counter is: " << counter << endl;
return 0;
}
To put it into context of SC, it would be this:
CODE
#include <iostream.h>
int main()
{
int minerals;
while (minerals = 0);
cout << "Giving player minerals....\n";
do
{
minerals++;
}
while (minerals < 50);
cout << "Minerals are: " << minerals << endl;
return 0;
}
int main()
{
int minerals;
while (minerals = 0);
cout << "Giving player minerals....\n";
do
{
minerals++;
}
while (minerals < 50);
cout << "Minerals are: " << minerals << endl;
return 0;
}
They are the same because of this:
CONDITIONS:
-Always.
In C++, while(minerals < 50);
ACTIONS:
-Modify resources for Current Player: Set to 50 Ore
In C++, do { minerals++; }
So really, SC Triggers are way of programming, but the code is already built in
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2005-07-01 at 15:08:25
QUOTE
Of course, everyone insists you have neat clean code. Me? I obfuscate it to the point where no one else understands it. Nasty habit.
My programming teacher yould skin me alive if he saw me write code like that. Like I used to write in Microworlds without linbreaks for each command
QUOTE(RexyRex @ Jul 1 2005, 02:27 AM)
DTBK: About Python, how exactly do you run one of your scripts? Send the .py file to a friend? I'd use it if I knew how, it looks a lot like PHP.
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You send the .py file to a friend. It opens in a command shell and runs a command-line interface but you can learn ways of making GUI's in python. Not sure, but I think you need Python installed on your computer. You can also use python to write CGI scripts for web pages and have it store data in an XML file.
http://www.python.org
QUOTE(Clokr_ @ Jul 1 2005, 07:37 AM)
DT_Battlekruser: python looks like VB with C-like words. And all those extra lines with {} etc of "java", C and C++ have them too, and I guess that PHP does too, and they are really helpful.
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Java has more of the pain-in-the-ass stuff when you go about proper syntax. It's evil!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by AqoTrooper on 2005-07-01 at 16:00:36
QUOTE(Kellimus @ Jul 1 2005, 06:07 PM)
Sure Triggers are programming. It's set up the same way[right][snapback]249799[/snapback][/right]
Everything is computers is programming in source, but making triggers, using editors like Staredit, StarForge, SCMDraft, Xtra, aka - any existing editor we have is not programming, it's, as I already said, filling the blanks for a code that Blizzard had already wrote.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodle77(MM) on 2005-07-01 at 16:21:20
QUOTE(DT_Battlekruser @ Jun 30 2005, 02:14 PM)
Where's 'other'? Python owns!
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QUOTE(DT_Battlekruser @ Jun 30 2005, 09:29 PM)
All the extra lines and {}'s make Java a pain. Python owns: no semicolons, it actually parses line breaks. Its syntax is no-nonsense and streamlined. Excerpt from a program of mine:
Nicely simple (it also parses indents).
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CODE
if hp < 1:
raw_input('<ENTER> to end')
break
while 1:
cmdLine = raw_input('--> ')
cmdWords = cmdLine.split(': ')
cmd = cmdWords[0]
try:
cmdArgs = cmdWords[1]
break
except IndexError:
print 'Compile Error: must include \': \' after basic command.'
if cmd == 'go':
NewPlace = cmdArgs
if NewPlace in place[1]:
place = places[NewPlace]
hunger -= 1
elif cmdArgs == '':
print 'Go Where?'
else:
print 'You can\'t go there.'
raw_input('<ENTER> to end')
break
while 1:
cmdLine = raw_input('--> ')
cmdWords = cmdLine.split(': ')
cmd = cmdWords[0]
try:
cmdArgs = cmdWords[1]
break
except IndexError:
print 'Compile Error: must include \': \' after basic command.'
if cmd == 'go':
NewPlace = cmdArgs
if NewPlace in place[1]:
place = places[NewPlace]
hunger -= 1
elif cmdArgs == '':
print 'Go Where?'
else:
print 'You can\'t go there.'
Nicely simple (it also parses indents).
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Yea! python pwns!!!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Clokr_ on 2005-07-01 at 17:45:13
Semicolons are good. Parse line breaks is not always so good. I made good pieces of C++ code by writing some related instructions in the same line.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-07-01 at 17:51:15
Proof Python owns everything:
C++:
#include <iostream.h>
int main()
{
cout<< "yeah";
}
Java:
public static void main(String[] args)
{
System.out.println("yeah");
}
Python:
print "yeah"
gg
C++:
CODE
#include <iostream.h>
int main()
{
cout<< "yeah";
}
Java:
CODE
public static void main(String[] args)
{
System.out.println("yeah");
}
Python:
CODE
print "yeah"
gg
Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2005-07-01 at 18:49:41
There's that, too No crappy bothering with complicated proper syntax.
No crappy bothering with complicated proper syntax.Report, edit, etc...Posted by Clokr_ on 2005-07-01 at 19:31:29
Let's compare speed and exe size and then choose.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by CheeZe on 2005-07-01 at 19:37:43
Python's still the winner. 
more cool syntax examples:
>>> def pyramid(number,symbol):
symbol = symbol[0]
key = [" ",1,number-2,symbol]
print key[0] * (key[2] + 1) + key[3]
while key[2] > 0:
string = key[0] * key[2] + key[3] + key[0] * key[1] + key[3] + key[0] * key[2]
print string
key[2] = key[2] - 1
key[1] = key[1] + 2
if key[2] == 0:
print key[3] * len(string)
>>> pyramid(10,"5")
5
5 5
5 5
5 5
5 5
5 5
5 5
5 5
5 5
5555555555555555555
Well, obviously, the output would actually be correct, unlike this stuff :/
more cool syntax examples:
CODE
>>> def pyramid(number,symbol):
symbol = symbol[0]
key = [" ",1,number-2,symbol]
print key[0] * (key[2] + 1) + key[3]
while key[2] > 0:
string = key[0] * key[2] + key[3] + key[0] * key[1] + key[3] + key[0] * key[2]
print string
key[2] = key[2] - 1
key[1] = key[1] + 2
if key[2] == 0:
print key[3] * len(string)
>>> pyramid(10,"5")
5
5 5
5 5
5 5
5 5
5 5
5 5
5 5
5 5
5555555555555555555
Well, obviously, the output would actually be correct, unlike this stuff :/
Report, edit, etc...Posted by BSTRhino on 2005-07-01 at 20:24:45
My favourite programming language is C# .NET at the moment. I'm surprised no one has said .NET yet, I feel like I have no friends lol...
Although I don't really have a real preference, it depends on what I'm doing. All the languages coexist because they target different markets and each have their pros and cons and therefore suit different purposes.
Like for example, I would never make a simple program like the MPQ Compactor or something in C#. In that case what I would go for would be the same thing DT_Battlekruser and CheeZe are liking, I just want to write a program easily and quickly without having to worry about having all perfect code, properly designed types, how to get around fixed sized arrays and all of that. So I made the MPQ Compactor in JavaScript, but Python, Ruby or Perl would have been great choices as well.
For the trigger programming language Neutrino, that's not a simple program, it had over 125 classes. C#'s had a few strengths for such a large program. It had managed code with managed references, unlike C or C++ which use unmanaged pointers. C# worked with the Visual Studio .NET 2003 environment which I needed to keep track of 125 classes. It had a whole class library supporting it which lets you make the choice between fixed sized arrays, array lists and sorted array lists which copy themselves to become larger, hash tables, linked lists and those are just the collections. C# lets you get closer to the choices that the compiler makes enabling you to make the optimisations in the code where it is necessary. Neutrino was a programming language after all, and so it needed to be fast (remember it took two hours to compile the script with 2500 strings... more optimisations needed) and that's another reason why I didn't choose Java.
And one more example. There's another program I've made which is being used by a company, one of its main features is its database. I could've done something random with SQL server, but instead I chose to do it in JADE, because of its integrated and seamless database, something which none of the other programming languages I've seen have. Not C#, not Java, not even Python. Pretty much you can create objects as persistent objects, turn off the computer, and when you turn it back on, they're still there. It made database work very easy and so I chose to do this program in JADE.
So, what I'm trying to say is, Python has nice code, it's small and quick to write, but to say it "owns everything" is probably going a bit too far. For example, delegation in Python is messy because it recompiles code on the fly, and overloading methods is not as direct as it is in some other languages, you can only define one method but can use optionalities or a variable parameter list (no type enforcement) to achieve the same effect and private variables are never really private meaning the compiler cannot check for bugs on these variables, and this is a real downside when working on a project with 50 other people on the team who won't understand your code, and what about the mutual importing of modules? Python has its place, but I think there's a reason that large programs like Mozilla Firefox which will have thousands of classes has been written in C/C++ and not Python.
Although I don't really have a real preference, it depends on what I'm doing. All the languages coexist because they target different markets and each have their pros and cons and therefore suit different purposes.
Like for example, I would never make a simple program like the MPQ Compactor or something in C#. In that case what I would go for would be the same thing DT_Battlekruser and CheeZe are liking, I just want to write a program easily and quickly without having to worry about having all perfect code, properly designed types, how to get around fixed sized arrays and all of that. So I made the MPQ Compactor in JavaScript, but Python, Ruby or Perl would have been great choices as well.
For the trigger programming language Neutrino, that's not a simple program, it had over 125 classes. C#'s had a few strengths for such a large program. It had managed code with managed references, unlike C or C++ which use unmanaged pointers. C# worked with the Visual Studio .NET 2003 environment which I needed to keep track of 125 classes. It had a whole class library supporting it which lets you make the choice between fixed sized arrays, array lists and sorted array lists which copy themselves to become larger, hash tables, linked lists and those are just the collections. C# lets you get closer to the choices that the compiler makes enabling you to make the optimisations in the code where it is necessary. Neutrino was a programming language after all, and so it needed to be fast (remember it took two hours to compile the script with 2500 strings... more optimisations needed) and that's another reason why I didn't choose Java.
And one more example. There's another program I've made which is being used by a company, one of its main features is its database. I could've done something random with SQL server, but instead I chose to do it in JADE, because of its integrated and seamless database, something which none of the other programming languages I've seen have. Not C#, not Java, not even Python. Pretty much you can create objects as persistent objects, turn off the computer, and when you turn it back on, they're still there. It made database work very easy and so I chose to do this program in JADE.
So, what I'm trying to say is, Python has nice code, it's small and quick to write, but to say it "owns everything" is probably going a bit too far. For example, delegation in Python is messy because it recompiles code on the fly, and overloading methods is not as direct as it is in some other languages, you can only define one method but can use optionalities or a variable parameter list (no type enforcement) to achieve the same effect and private variables are never really private meaning the compiler cannot check for bugs on these variables, and this is a real downside when working on a project with 50 other people on the team who won't understand your code, and what about the mutual importing of modules? Python has its place, but I think there's a reason that large programs like Mozilla Firefox which will have thousands of classes has been written in C/C++ and not Python.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-01 at 20:29:54
QUOTE(AqoTrooper @ Jul 1 2005, 01:00 PM)
Everything is computers is programming in source, but making triggers, using editors like Staredit, StarForge, SCMDraft, Xtra, aka - any existing editor we have is not programming, it's, as I already said, filling the blanks for a code that Blizzard had already wrote.
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That's not the point though! Triggers are just another way of programming! You just insert the code instead of write it! FJDJ"DJK:!!!!!!
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Kow on 2005-07-01 at 20:31:22
English
Report, edit, etc...Posted by RexyRex on 2005-07-01 at 22:00:56
QUOTE(CheeZe @ Jul 1 2005, 02:51 PM)
Proof Python owns everything:
C++:
#include <iostream.h>
int main()
{
cout<< "yeah";
}
Java:
public static void main(String[] args)
{
System.out.println("yeah");
}
Python:
print "yeah"
gg
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C++:
CODE
#include <iostream.h>
int main()
{
cout<< "yeah";
}
Java:
CODE
public static void main(String[] args)
{
System.out.println("yeah");
}
Python:
CODE
print "yeah"
gg
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CODE
echo "yeah";
PHP must be better according to your logic.
Also, is there anyway to run Python without having it installed on your computer? (Like if you wanted to distribute a program)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by chuiu on 2005-07-01 at 22:03:31
QUOTE(BSTRhino @ Jul 1 2005, 07:24 PM)
My favourite programming language is C# .NET at the moment. I'm surprised no one has said .NET yet, I feel like I have no friends lol... [right][snapback]250157[/snapback][/right]
No, I'm right there with you. I love the .NET framework.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MillenniumArmy on 2005-07-02 at 00:48:46
Actionscript for flash since that's the only one in which I actually know how to do something.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-07-04 at 02:23:51
C# is the language of men, C++ is the language of those becomming men, and the rest are for hippies.
ADDITION:
You REALLY shouldn't put C in with C#... the only thing they share is their bracket style.
ADDITION:
Almost forgot about Python/Lua!
Those are great, but as of now are only good for scripting.
ADDITION:
You REALLY shouldn't put C in with C#... the only thing they share is their bracket style.
ADDITION:
Almost forgot about Python/Lua!
Those are great, but as of now are only good for scripting.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by O)FaRTy1billion on 2005-07-04 at 02:26:49
QUOTE(Gradius @ Jun 30 2005, 11:39 AM)
You cant really consider html a language.
Actually, it is. It is just not a big fancy one.
"HyperText Markup LANGUAGE"
(Or similar to that, dunno. I'm not exactly "here" right now... if ya know what I mean )Report, edit, etc...Posted by Trigonometry on 2005-07-04 at 02:46:25
I refuse to do this poll, because it doesn't have the one where you use your pen 15 to type with.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Shmeeps on 2005-07-04 at 03:06:03
.....ooooooook....
echo 'yeah';
PHP must be better according to your logic.
You forgot <? ?>
Heh. That's why I'm not afraid of having any of my code stolen. It's so messy it's not even funny, and I use the weirdest variable names (eg $moo, $rawr, $OMGWTFBBQ, stuff like that.). If someone saw some of my code, tehy would probably puke...
QUOTE
CODE
echo 'yeah';
PHP must be better according to your logic.
You forgot <? ?>
QUOTE
Of course, everyone insists you have neat clean code. Me? I obfuscate it to the point where no one else understands it. Nasty habit.
Heh. That's why I'm not afraid of having any of my code stolen. It's so messy it's not even funny, and I use the weirdest variable names (eg $moo, $rawr, $OMGWTFBBQ, stuff like that.). If someone saw some of my code, tehy would probably puke...