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Staredit Network -> Serious Discussion -> Is AI possible?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2006-01-04 at 21:17:14
QUOTE(Nano_ @ Jan 4 2006, 03:22 AM)
It will simulate being happy.
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Are you looking at robots 20-30 years from now? Or the ones 200-300 years from now? The ones 20-30 years from now, I agree with you fully. But the ones 200-300 years from now, 100% different story.

This is one of those topics you have to break it down to it's core. And I know only 10-20% of the people here will understand what the hell I would be talking about.

This is going to become the new God topic in a few more years.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Pyro_Maniak14 on 2006-01-04 at 21:53:39
The last thing we need are robots ok? The world is already overflowing with people and the last thing we need are metal humanoids walking around greeting everyone thats glances at them. And even if we have AI robots what would they do? People and scrambling for jobs and houses, etc as it is. Besides... more and more jobs are being lost as new "smarter" technology is becoming available. Practically every walmart has those do-it-yourself automatic booths where you scan your own stuff. Before I left to Canada on a plane for xmas I saw the airport had them at the ticket counters. I went to a gas station and the little restaurant there had pads where you take your order. Besides... making up AI robots would just decrease and decrease the natural resources. We don't need AI! Computers are smart enough. We don't need super computers doing our taxes and paying our bills and driving our cars and flying our planes. There's an increase in destruction also. The human race is dangerous enough! Just imagine if we had AI bots... why wouldn't they become violent? This thread is pointless
Report, edit, etc...Posted by HolySin on 2006-01-04 at 23:00:51
If we wish to, we could create a robot with most, if not all, human characteristics. Robots will be as "intelligent" as we program them to be.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2006-01-04 at 23:24:17
This is not true, because us humans have logic that works for us, but we are unaware how, thus most of our brain is inaccesible to write down on a peice of paper, or program into a computer. Your brain is basically 100% full, and only 10% comes out, while 90% stays in, thus resulting in making a computer "brain" only 10% as smart as us. And that's will all the known logic in the world.

<Percentages are not accuracte and serve as mostly as an example>
Report, edit, etc...Posted by The_Crackhead on 2006-01-10 at 00:26:59
Well basicly what we would have to do is find some way to copy human genes into a way of programming. Like Copy+Paste...Exept from a diffrent language. But why would you want more people, There is allready an overpopulation issue as that other person said, I SEVERELY doubt that humans will live long enough to invent one, And besides humans have ruined this world enough as it is... If you are so lonely you want a robot to be your friend I think you have some problems anyway.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by FISH2000 on 2006-01-25 at 23:26:50
I think its absolutely possible. We can program something to react to anything. I just think that theres a lot more stuff out there that is much more important to "Invent".
Report, edit, etc...Posted by HolySin on 2006-01-26 at 00:48:42
QUOTE(Nano_ @ Jan 4 2006, 10:24 PM)
This is not true, because us humans have logic that works for us, but we are unaware how, thus most of our brain is inaccesible to write down on a peice of paper, or program into a computer. Your brain is basically 100% full, and only 10% comes out, while 90% stays in, thus resulting in making a computer "brain" only 10% as smart as us. And that's will all the known logic in the world.

<Percentages are not accuracte and serve as mostly as an example>
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I beg to differ. Logic isn't really a mystery. It's simply the left side of the brain piecing together an answer. We have already made a robot that can feel, smell, see, hear, and think. When people say we use 10% of our brain, it's generally talking about the manual functions such as talking, thinking, walking, etc. The rest of our brains pretty much carry on our automatic functions such as: breathing, heart beat, nervous system, etc. Einstein was said to have used 25% of his brain, however, what most people don't know is that he was unable to carry out basic tasks easily, making it likely that he was slightly autistic. Autism occurs when the usage of the brain is out of proportion. So it's very possible to create a robot with all characteristics. The basic programming is simply that 90% of the brain we don't "use" while the 10% is what we are trying to advance on.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by (DI)Yulla on 2006-01-26 at 06:41:04
QUOTE(Pyro_Maniak14 @ Jan 1 2006, 01:07 AM)
Well... AI is... possible... but not to the extent of the human mind... Humans feel pain, agony, fear, love, happiness, depression, suffering, anger, delight... so many feelings... It'd be impossible to create AI emotions. Just like in the movies... AI would probably rage out of control and backfire. You can't 100% control everything. You can't control wild animals, murderers, fires, floods, or death, etc... therefore how could you control an AI being? Eventually they would realize why they were taking orders and commands from humans when they themselves would be much more intelligent to follow their own orders. Also... the humans race... for generations and still today has disrimination and racism... AI beings would probably be discriminated and fill ghettos as more and more people dislike them because they're not human. Its like in the movie AI... Also... why would you massively produce AI beings(if you could)? We have already have an overpopulation problem that's not going to go away for a long time. We don't need more people... we're losing enough natural resources as it is...
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pyro, you have been seriously influenced by movies and other stupid people who made the movies. AI is possible. Look at XBox 360. Also, there are robots out there in market. I personally think the opposite of what pyro believe. I believe that AI is possible and will not run over mankind.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by HolySin on 2006-01-26 at 09:48:47
QUOTE(Pyro_Maniak14 @ Jan 4 2006, 08:53 PM)
The last thing we need are robots ok? The world is already overflowing with people and the last thing we need are metal humanoids walking around greeting everyone thats glances at them. And even if we have AI robots what would they do? People and scrambling for jobs and houses, etc as it is. Besides... more and more jobs are being lost as new "smarter" technology is becoming available. Practically every walmart has those do-it-yourself automatic booths where you scan your own stuff. Before I left to Canada on a plane for xmas I saw the airport had them at the ticket counters. I went to a gas station and the little restaurant there had pads where you take your order. Besides... making up AI robots would just decrease and decrease the natural resources. We don't need AI! Computers are smart enough. We don't need super computers doing our taxes and paying our bills and driving our cars and flying our planes. There's an increase in destruction also. The human race is dangerous enough! Just imagine if we had AI bots... why wouldn't they become violent? This thread is pointless
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You fool, you foolish fool. Robots would be great for taking care of some inconveniences. We aren't really "running out" of resources, we just lack way to accumulate them. Why would we need a lot of resources? It can be solar powered. Those people losing their jobs can get a better education. Robots may make life so convenient one day that jobs wouldn't be necessary.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Sie_Sayoka on 2006-01-26 at 13:50:02
well the thing is. when we get more into developing AI the robots will become predictible. afterall they are made to adapt to thier surroundings. the problem about it is self preservation. and i think thats what pyro is talking about.
with all forms of life there is self preservation i think the same will be for artificial life as well. i mean we can program it so that they will not hurt us but since AI constantly changes to suit its environment you wouldnt know if it would be overidden.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Shadow-Killa_04 on 2006-01-27 at 19:22:22
AI is out of sight and I think will never happen. Computers are built to read code from top to bottom. They can't decide unless told to do anything else. First what you'd need is a way to generate completely random numbers. Computers currently only can do suedo random numbers. Random enough someone could say they're random, but they're not. Then you'd need the ability to tell it to read any piece of code it wanted to. You'd have to redesign how computers read code.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by FallenDreamer on 2006-01-28 at 00:44:42
We've had this arguement before. Too lazy to re-type my opinion, so I'm gonna just copy n' pase.

QUOTE(FallenDreamer @ Oct 16 2005, 05:39 PM)
Alright, so here's what I think. First, I think it'd be a good idea to define "artificial." Because I don't see what the difference between a sentient product of technology and a sentient product of nature would be. They would both exist on the plane of thought, wouldn't they? Well than, that would mean that the A.I. isn't really a computer anymore. I'd say an A.I. would exist in a computer, but unlike a program. Think about it, we would have to make the A.I. in a way similiar to humans for them to truly think. I don't think it would be impossible for a true A.I. to be incapable of human error because, really now, what would the difference be? The A.I. wouldn't be a computer anymore. It wouldn't be a program. It isn't built to calculate and think 100% mathematically, and thus would be capable of what we should start calling "sentient" error. And I'd also have to say that this error is also a product of our innate randomness.

Now, as to the creation of such a thing, I'd have to say I have no clue. In my opinion, human's still don't know enough about themselves to recreate sentient thought, because thats really our only source of information. The only thing we can base these things on are ourselves, because as of yet, we are the only truely sentient creatures we know of.

As an end note, I'd like to say that I'm pretty sure the A.I. Crayak is thinking of is NOT a robot, or a computer.

and...well... that was fun.
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Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oblivius on 2006-01-30 at 22:57:38
No, A.I. can't be real. Or it might. But mostly no. I think that the only way A.I. can be real if we can get the smartest guy's knowledge into a computer. Then we would have to make the knowledge be humanized forthe computer. Of course it's impossible because it would take forever to copy the knowledge and humanize it. So, that's my opinion, A.I. can't be real. But before we invent it, we'll still have to use code to program the computer system. (Like games).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Sie_Sayoka on 2006-01-31 at 00:11:33
most of you guys dont knwo what the actual definition of AI is. you think its where computers can think as good as animals and humans ect.

QUOTE
artificial intelligence

n : the branch of computer science that deal with writing computer programs that can solve problems creatively; "workers in AI hope to imitate or duplicate intelligence in computers and robots" [syn: AI]


computers already have problem solving skills
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Pyro_Maniak14 on 2006-02-01 at 21:08:58
QUOTE(procuress @ Jan 26 2006, 06:41 AM)
pyro, you have been seriously influenced by movies and other stupid people who made the movies. AI is possible. Look at XBox 360. Also, there are robots out there in market. I personally think the opposite of what pyro believe. I believe that AI is possible and will not run over mankind.
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Ok now I never said it wasn't possible now did I! I said to an EXTENT because the humand mind is only used 10 of the 100%! And I also said NOTHING of the destruction of mankind I said they could potentially be VIOLENT! As for the Xbox 360... yes it is a very powerful machine and companies in Tokyo have come up with Robosapien and all those wonderful gadgets. Now say for example we DID make a robot... Question number 1) Why do we NEED robots? Seriously... answer that question with some thought... We have no need for robots besides "we could use them as slaves!" like what HolySin was saying. And say if you DID recreate human emotions and actions into a Robot or AI machine or w/e... Like Sie_Sayoka said... they learn... lets say they're like children... "monkey see, monkey do." Now I know you think Im saying this because "Robots in movies always lose control." But Im NOT! What's to stop AI and Robots from doing things other than what we teach them? Robots and AI are basically computers and they learn... when we insert a new game into the CD-ROM and we install it, it "learns" its data... When you upload a song or file to your computer... it NEVER forgets it even if you delete it... Because it will still sit in its hardrive buried in the circuitry somewhere. What's to stop a "computer" human from learning?
QUOTE(HolySin @ Jan 26 2006, 09:48 AM)
You fool, you foolish fool.  Robots would be great for taking care of some inconveniences.  We aren't really "running out" of resources, we just lack way to accumulate them.  Why would we need a lot of resources?  It can be solar powered.  Those people losing their jobs can get a better education.  Robots may make life so convenient one day that jobs wouldn't be necessary.
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Inconveniences? Like what? Taking out the trash and doing your homework and doing your chores? Now you're being lazy. Jobs wouldn't be necessary... did you get dropped on your head as a baby? PEOPLE NEED JOBS you know why? Money... Because money gives you FOOD and WATER and SHELTER and OTHER things ESSENTIAL for life! So are you saying robots will do EVERYTHING for us while the government pays every US family every week for not working and just hanging around watching TV? HA! Thats funny.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by HolySin on 2006-02-01 at 21:16:51
How about you become open minded and think about this:
Would we really need an economy if we had robots do everything for us?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Pyro_Maniak14 on 2006-02-01 at 21:22:58
Ok ok ok... I wanna hear your story... Why do you WANT robots? Go ahead tell me... Im listening. And the economy consists of millions of companys and stock market and trading... Try convincing everyone to swap to robots. Sure people would do it because they don't really have to pay robots but just imagine the millions of riots filled with pissed off people that lost their jobs because of robots? Anarchy....
Report, edit, etc...Posted by FISH2000 on 2006-02-02 at 00:23:18
QUOTE(Sie_Sayoka @ Jan 30 2006, 09:11 PM)
most of you guys dont knwo what the actual definition of AI is. you think its where computers can think as good as animals and humans ect.
computers already have problem solving skills
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Pfft, I never bothered to look up the definition. Thats good to know and further proves A.I. is possible.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by HolySin on 2006-02-02 at 20:21:57
So basically what your saying, pyro, is that there will be millions of riots because of the rich becoming middle class? Yes, since the rich have such a high population. Who wouldn't want to be even with their boss? If there was no economy and robots did many of our jobs, we would have a "utopion" society, where nobody was better than another. Of course, this wouldn't happen any time soon.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by PCFredZ on 2006-02-03 at 21:10:23
If it exists, it's replicable. Maybe not by humans, but if it physically exists, then logically there's a way to quantify that physical state and mimic it.

Obviously the above logic will not be concluded by a human-produced AI anytime soon, but hey you can always strive to do better. biggrin.gif
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Pyro_Maniak14 on 2006-02-03 at 22:08:07
Thats pretty much what Im saying but Im trying to say that when you replace humans with robots, humans dont get paid therefore the government would have to pay for them unless we survived off of odd jobs like babysitting... And if the Government doesn't... then over half of the US would be poor and considered lower class except for the rich business owners who hoarde all the money because they don't have to pay robots so they get 100% of the companies profits. As for the riots... yes anarchy would strike because imagine how angry the millions of US citizens will be once they realize their jobs are being taken over by robots? Half of the US would lose their jobs... thats like between 50-150 million people... The US would destroy themselves from the bottom up...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by HolySin on 2006-02-06 at 20:00:57
Obviously your not getting it, perhaps I should outline it for you:

I. Robots with AI are built.
A. Robots are used to do all the work.
1. The economy is no longer necessary.
a. Classes do not exist.
1. Everybody is equal.
A. Utopian society.

Stop bringing money into this discussion, if we had robots, why would we need an economy. The amount of rich people is outweighed by the amount of people who are either poor or middle class, so tough luck that they're now equal. It would only be the rich who gets angry if the economy disappeared. I honestly don't know how to make this any simple. Obviously though, this wouldn't happen any time soon, nor happen instantly; it would be gradual.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Pyro_Maniak14 on 2006-02-07 at 21:35:04
Im speechless... I just... Uh... How can I explain it so that YOU understand? If everyone is equal and no one has a greater power who will govern us? Robots?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by HolySin on 2006-02-07 at 22:16:16
It's funny because you focused on the economy, indirectly claiming that I don't understand you, then switch over to what would happen with the government. Pretty sneeky, but besides that, I'll answer your question.

Would we really need a government? It would be a system in which a group of people would look after themselves. We wouldn't really need laws, except for ones with marriage (I'll explain in next paragraph). With the lack of an economy, many of the crimes are without purpose. So that leaves the case of revenge and the insane.

Revenge would be rather pointless since in a Utopian society, everybody has equal opportunities. Of course, there is the case of being cheated on. Those in fact can lead to murder. Here would be my only law: any divorce or cheating would result in his or her termination. Harsh? Maybe not. Consider this, if people were aware of this law, they would take much more caution on choosing their soul mate and be less inclined to cheat. Therefore, there would be no revenge. I could get into more details, but I honestly don't feeling like writing more about this subject since all arguements against this idea could be countered.

Now as for the mentally ill part, we will have to think outside of the box a bit. If we have created absolute AI for robots, can't we very well have the ability to control certain thoughts within the brain? Wouldn't medication have improved a lot by that time? I think with the combined powers of technology and medicine, insanity isn't a problem.

So what use would the supreme court be if there was no crime? Why would we need a congress if we only had a handful of laws? Why need a world leader if everybody is equal and gets the picture? There would be no use for this governent. So please, I'm curious as to what other thing I don't "understand".

Explanations:
Economy - Check
Government - Check
Society - Pending
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Zombie on 2006-02-08 at 00:17:12
Of course its possible, Look how far we have advanced. I mean we might nevever see it, But i'm sure us humans will find a way to make it possible. Soon we will have robots.

(like in irobot) Just with out the crazyness
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