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I've been talking with Kept_Wheat over PM, I'm trying to figure out why he thinks my hyper triggers won't work. Here is what I have found:

He won't give a reason why they won't work, but he will say that they don't work and that the map he made will show it, if only he could open it without crashing SC. Honestly, I'm not making this up.

BTW I have made my own test map where they work perfectly, but he claims that that is not true proof, only his map can prove it. He then claims that the only way to prove my point is to somehow stop his own map from crashing.

So here is what it boils down to, Kept_Wheat does not even have a reason, let alone proof that they don't work. What really happened is when he first saw the topic, he sees a new person to SEN, posting something that looks too simple to actually be hyper triggers, so without contemplating the actual triggers announces that they don't work, and from there he just wasn't man enough to admit an error on his part.

Don't take my work for it, see for yourself:
http://www.darrenks.com/hobby/sc/hypertest.scx (my map)
http://www.darrenks.com/hobby/sc/HyperTrigs.scx (his map)

In a last attempt to undo the damage Kept_Wheat has done, here are the facts:
The methods provided fire at 12 times per second.
The methods provided repeat forever, the NEO does not occur.

Kept_Wheat, no more post from you until you have a reason or an example where they do not work.

ok just to note your players who have some of the triggers should be comps so when one person tries it they dont get lost, and take out the normal hyper triggers i thought your whole point was not to have those, other than that it works great, but i still dont see the difference between this and the one in the tutorial.


Ok so heres the bare basics of it, and i figured out the simple way of stopping it, so you can start and stop hyper triggers mid game, have a blast kids[attachmentid=17812]

They are all under human players so that in the start screen you can choose which type of hyper triggers you want to use. Normal hyper triggers are just there as a control.

Once again the difference between the first version and the tutorial is just 1 less clear switch and 1 less wait. The second version is just 1 trigger as opposed to 2. Not a significant difference, but why put in more stuff than have to?

Well then I don't think there is anything else to discuss. I rarely see the way hyper triggers are done in those tutorials anyway, so it doesn't really matter. If it works, it works, if it doesn't, then it doesn't. Just let the people decide what they want to use.

Yeah basicly, but i have a question has anyone else descored hyper triggers that can be stopped mid game? or is that new, they can also be re started too just check my last post

I believe it's been thought about by a lot of people, but I don't know if it has been used in any maps.

This hyper trigger is just a lazy version of the other one, everything depends on the condictions of the trigger and what your trying to use it for.

Honestly just to be on the safe side it's easier to use the one in torturials. Your way uses switchs which makes it more complicated. Even thought using switchs are easy there are still certain complications to it. its much easier to make your own condictions and then waste acouple seconds just pressing the copy button on "Wait 0 mili-seconds" . Your way just makes the trigger smaller.

I strongly resent that statement. I reject it entirely. What have you done to help anybody in this thread? What progress have you made to help him with his idea? You're just standing in front of him defending his faulty ideas. At least, with people that have something to say, it can make things change for the better. It all depends on how the person percieves the comments.

I don't agree with you saying that nobody cares about helping each other, since there are alot of people (myself included) that spend alot of time trying to explain things to people.

Read this post if you want an example, and please don't make such broad statements anymore.

in regards to this being useless, its not, basicly it makes it so it will NEVER have that little pause then start the hyper triggers again, yes the normal 4 hyper triggers does go for a whole week, yeah thats long but there is also other benifits to this method, you can start and stop it at anytime as the map i posted 2 posts ago shows, so this method isnt entirely useless it is actaully more use ful its just alot of people dont need that in there maps

Compared to what members at SEN used to be like, people are much worse nowadays. Showing an example of how you have been helpful doesn't disprove my claim. I'm defending him because people are dismissing his ideas without any justification. xws mentioned previously that he knew of the tutorial, he was trying to make an improvement. The comments below don't suggest friendliness to someone trying to come up with ideas he feels may be helpful to the community. Most of the rest of it is saying that there is already another method and it's not too troublesome to make conventional Hyper Triggers with 62*3 waits.








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I've been visiting SEN for two years. I've seen the community change over time. I can tell you that tthe mentality of most of the members are different from what they once were. I'm explaining the changes that I have noticed. In my opinion, my post is accurate. In your's, it is not. Either way, you cannot deny the the lack of compassion and helpful gestures in this thread. People have stated that older methods don't need to be changed and that [xws]'s method will likely reach the end of its loop more often.

Obviously this won't be true of everyone, but it would be nice if SEN was more supportive of new members. If you read a lot of other boards you find some people suggest SEN isn't newb friendly, it's unfortunate that SEN has degraded in such a way.

Many of the members have proven themselves great, helpful, positive members. Then again, many have not. It is this rather large portion that makes visiting SEN discouraging.

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Upon testing this for a longer period of time as Kept_Wheat suggested, I failed to notice a break in the Hyper Trigger after 1526 frames. If a break does occur, it won't happen often enough to be dtrimental to gameplay in anyway.

Might I mention that upon testing, You can indeed negate the Hyper Triggers anytime you want by manipulating the trigegrs a little bit, something the 63*3 method is incapable of doing.

Well said ZDP i couldnt of said it any better myself i agree 100%

Thanks, kookstar and ZPD finally some positive comments. While sometimes negative comments can be good if given in a nice way, like if they point out real flaws or show a better way to do something. But the negative comments here are the opposite of this, they are not useful, and they are not given in a nice way. It is basically people just saying things that help no one, but make themselves look better, so they think. If these were the only comments here I would probably never use these forums again, but luckily there are some good apples.

Anyways many people seem interested in toggleable hyper triggers, here would be one way to do that:

Trigger

Players:

¤ Player 7

Conditions:

¤ Switch 1 is set

¤ Switch 2 is set

Actions:

¤ Clear Switch 2

¤ wait 0

¤ preserve trigger

Trigger

Players:

¤ Player 8

Conditions:

¤ Switch 1 is set

¤ Switch 2 is clear

Actions:

¤ Set Switch 2

¤ wait 0

¤ preserve trigger

To activate hyper triggers set switch 1, to deactivate clear switch 1
These are victually the same as the original triggers I posted, the difference, is the addition of the extra switch, and the clearing and checking of the original switch.

Now they are actually closer to the looping hyper triggers in the tutorial by dabbu, since some of the shortcuts I made aren't compatible with starting them anytime, but note you still don't need that last wait in dabbu's.

Thats alot like what i did in my map heres my triggers

Trigger

Conditions:

¤ player 1 brings at least 1 terran marine to location 1

Actions:

¤ modify death counts for all players: set to 0 for cave-in

¤ Preserve trigger

Trigger

Conditions:

¤ player 1 brings exactly 0 terran marine to location 1

¤ All players has suffered at least 1 deaths of Cave-in

Actions:

¤ wait for 0 milliseconds

¤ Preserve trigger

Trigger

Conditions:

¤ player 1 brings exactly 0 terran marine to location 1

Actions:

¤ modify death counts for all players: set to 1 for cave-in

¤ wait for 0 milliseconds

¤ Preserve trigger

What I have noticed

is that people who are newer to the boards get less respect than others who have higher rankings (ie. Regulars, Moderators), and these people are immediately treated as "newbies." Often, if a new forumgoer designs an innovative trigger technique, regular members will not believe that he/she could do that. So they create irrational posts that say "it won't work" or "have you even TESTED it?" even though they haven't looked at the triggers.

Good job on the triggers, xws.

I'm not saying his won't work, all I'm asking is "What use does it have?" I'm seriously wondering. I wouldn't waste my time posting here just to tell people that their ideas suck. And I agree that some of the posts in this thread aren't the most supportive, but that's only because this topic has been redone a bunch of times and the tutorial method is still superior in most cases.



Well, for myself, out of all the threads that I've seen on this topic here (probably about 6 or 7) that is the consensus that has been reached by each one so far.

If you are referring to the looping hyper triggers tutorial, then this is false, its exactly the same thing except theirs has unnecessary actions

The only person that has been saying they reach the end of the loop sooner is Kept Wheat and he has zero evidence to back this up. This is hardly a consensus. If you look at the triggers and understand how starcraft evaluates triggers it is not hard to see that they loop INFINITELY.

I really don't need any more comments saying these are useless: here are three uses:
They take up less space (more useful for text based trigger editors)
They are infinite
They can be started and stopped on demand

Are these revolutionary? NO, NOT AT ALL
Are they potentially useful? YES

The whole point of the topic was to help people, if they don't help you, oh wells you don't need to announce it. Also I am sorry that some of my responses are negative too, but it makes me so angry to see the same false claims and same useless comments over and over. It is not hard to test the damn triggers, not saying everyone should, because most people shouldn't care enough, but if you are going to make a claim, test your claim first.

I was referring to threads I've seen about this in the past. I was saying that they may be the reason people don't really want to hear about this one.

How about we all just decide to use whichever one they want. If you like this one, use this one, if you dont, DONT! Save veryone the typing!

Exactly what everyone was doing until you revived a two week old topic.

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