Ihatett, hes not attacking you, his last post was defense, your attacking him. Why dont both of you stop?
He attacked me and someone else, and I was explaining why I was being harsh.
hmmm, whatever, im just going to ignore every thing, but could you guys plz stop now?
Alright, I have the updated version of the map, which credit goes entirly to quickreflex, hail to him for being such an awesome guy.
[attachmentid=7700]
My version of the map, with his improved doodad structure
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His version, tweaking parts of the map, he deserves a lot of thanks from me for taking the time to adjust my map.
In my opinion, these versions both surpass my original plan, it's always helpful to have someone experienced give their take on a map aswell.
As to the stuff about the gameplay on this map being unfair I have only this to say, as I do not want to end my stay with a total flame contest. My take on the style of this map being diffrent relates to how Terrans complain they can't win TvP on Nostalgia (for the slow, because there's no gas at the nat). This forces them to not lean so heavily on tanks and use a diffrent style of play. In my honest opinion, I think this map does much the same.
There is a slight problem with the ramps that occured during quick's version of the map, 1 of the ramps were kind of hurt. I'll probably go into starforge to rectify this, unfortunatly it may mean redoing all the doo-dads (his ones of course) because the stupid thing cuts off all the tops when I revert back to staredit, and there's no used mineral patch in star forge =( it'll be time consuming but well worth it for the survival of this map.
Thems the maps, hope you find quick's versions more appealing than mine.
Im sorry for posting this later, but no one has commented on these versions and I think we should have.
These changes not only make it balanced, and fair, but they make the map look MUCH better. Good job on your map, it went through wuite a bit and now I think its twice the map that it was when you started.
Well I looked at each updated version, and that was a lot of changes! I've only played the original "simplified" pre-dodad version and had a good time. I think the extra stuff in the middle of map was warranted to stop building there, but some of the other stuff might seem a bit excessive. "junkyard" is a good description. I'm glad to see that you've ditched a lot of the clutter that was scattered about a few updates ago. That would seem very annoying to negotiate. The new mineral "block" is a bit too "cutesy" for me, but it does add to the "uniqueness" of your map and seperates it from the cookie-cutter maps you've attempted to avoid.
In my first post, note I say that the terrain isn't overdone. I think that new and innovative maps such as this one should be careful not to overdo it. You did a good job of this initially, but seem to appear to want to make it too "unique" now?. The appearance is important, and some of the new "mineral" formations such as the squares and ramp/entrance blocks seem a bit "cheap" looking in my "subjective" view.
Overall the map still has a lot of playing integrity, and the new unbuildable terrain is a welcomed change. I think cosmetically tho, some of the changes have tarnished the "face-value" of this map. How important is a map's cosmetic appearance? Not much, but it is what ppl "vision" in their heads first.
Im not so sure about the blocking minerals though. They seem out of place.
To start, I'd like to appologise to people who I snapped back at or didn't take their adivice into consideration, it goes against a rule I like to follow where I take everything into consideration, no matter how trivial, no matter who it's from; sorry. The way I act on things is sometimes rather shamful and nobody deserves to feel the way it can sometimes be recieved. I just want you to know I hold no harsh feelings, although I still disagree with a lot of stuff it was stupid of me the way I reacted.
Without further a due, the download:
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Suggestions are welcome, I won't critisise them, I'll just tell you if I intend to use them or not, though probably not since fixing all those doodads took about an hour =(. Comments are nice too =D (no need to fear, I won't chastise you for hating the map)
I didn't protect the map, so feel free to mess around with it just don't take credit for anything you didn't do. If you like, use my backwards ramps in your map, but make sure to credit me in the map propeties =D
I went with Reflex's tweaks for my final version, I was already leaning away from the mineral stuff but I really appreciate the input, thanks again. Overall I think the map turned out nicly, definitly a big improvment from what I had before.
As for me, I'll be here a day or two to check out comments, then I'll try to play 300 games and maybe get another map here this summer. I'd really like to focus on playing games again so I can get more ideas on what I'd like to see in maps, and what other people like in maps. I realise most of my maps here kinda sucked, but I was really only trying to encourage new stuff, I just didn't pull it off very effectivly (but I accomplished what I wanted to do, and that is to see if it could work in maps).
Again, I'm sorry to those of you who I've offended in anyway and I'm especially sorry for saying dumb shit stuff like "this is the reason I'm leaving" it was really stupid of me, not to mention a little below my standards.
Sorry that was a bit of a read/rant but I think some people will find it mildly helpful.
PsychoTemplar
I like what you did to the middle, making it only one expansion.
Can you explain your reasoning for having 2 ramps on the temple on the top left, and only one ramp on the bottom right?
Also, I never noticed how you were stingy on the minerals. Early game is going to be full of epanding. Beacause your nat had 6 mins and your mains have 7.
Im sure ill still be here over the summer, so Ill be glad to comment on a map you may come out with.
The mains have 8 patches (easy mistake, don't worry). The natural has 6 patches because it has a gas geyser too, I don't want to overload the natural too much.
The ramps on the temples are diffrent to make the map look a little more natural and asymmetric, since players have fairly equal access to both I don't think it will be too unbalanced, though I could definitly change them both to one or two if you think it will be bad.
The middle was pretty screwed up before (to allow a path for units) so this is much better, I agree.
Oops. Sorry about the mineral mistake.
The temple, Think of it this way, terran has the expansion right next to it and is protectiong it with a tank, then toss comes in with dts and tries to box it in, the tank could just unseige and it could go off the other side. If it was on the bottom, it would have been toast.
Yes, its hypothetical, yes it doesnt seem like much, but those are the kinds of things pro maps do that others dont, they take out those kind of things and they add up.
Also, the temple wouldnt look any more unnatural without another ramp.
That's a good point, though all it does is make it more valuable for the Terran to go to that expansion (and if they would have to be out of scanner sweep) I see your point and I'll change it so that it's only one ramp on both I think. When I said asymmetrical I didn't really mean natural, that was a bad choice of words on my part. I just meant that it would force players to make a critical decision as to where they expanded (and hopfully encourage their opponents to get them to go into the poorer location).
I'll make this change, and if someone can point something else out I'll update it all and post the final version here (as opposed to updating it everytime someone makes a suggestion because I'm on my last legs when it comes to global attachment space.
Not much I see. I think the map is done. Have you submutted it yet?
Enjoy =/
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I don't plan on uploading it to the data base, I never have and it's not really neccessary (especially now).
Good bye fellow map makers.
Youll be back right? Sometime I hope...
Thanks for the map.