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Okay, so here's my newest map, showcasing my backwards ramp and some other nifty terrain. Preventing scouting will be a little harder but it's not like there havn't been pro maps where you couldn't stop early scouting. Comments are welcome, suggestions will be heard, whatever just tell me if it's got any major flaws. I'm probably going to be redoing some of my old maps (they didn't turn out right because I ran out of space and was forced to make something really small) so you might be seeing some more maps from me.
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It's been awhile since I've done a map and I figured I needed to get one out there. Hope it's better than my last.

Definately better than your last.
Things I like,
I really don't mind the near-symmetry, and I cannot think of any unbalances for any races.
I really like the middle, it is a very strategical area, if you owned that it would be very benneficial to you, you could easily seige some of thier expansions and leads a straight path to either base.
Although blocky, I like the extended ramps. Its cool to come across a wide choke point leading to high dirt, you never see that.
There are also a good amount of expansions for a game that drags out long enough.
Lastly, all your choke points are exactly the same size, good job. This map seems well balanced. Nice use of the backwards/extended ramps.

Things you could change, I'm not sure if your going to tweak any parts of this map or not but ill put them out there.
The top left and bottom right grassy areas seem really bland. There is alot of open space and would be hard to protect from flanks and stuff. Maybe add some raised jungle? I'm not sure if this should be done or not...

The roughly Three and Nine O'clock expansions have a difference in them. The 3 has the water farther away from the ramp from high dirt, than the 9. Do you see what I am saying? Also the 3 has much less space than the 9.

Overall, this map is balanced and would provide a great 1v1. Lets play on it sometime over the weekend. Maybe I could learn some more from you.

very cool lookin. I like the extended terrain and how you didn't go overboard w/ it. I have yet to play a map with this "modern" terrain.

I really like the long elevated corridors on the left/right. I could easily picture some heated battles trying to break thru blockades here. I also like how they aren't connected to one another!

Nothing wrong "jumps" out at me. Which is a good thing. I'm sure if I looked hard enuf I could find something. Definitely a map I would play.

Middle is too important, and the open areas above and below it are impossible for terran. Also, there are two chokes to each base (one huge) so early zeals would be impossible to stop pvt.

I'd have to sayt hat your map is imbalance racewise.

Protoss will have a pretty easy time moving their units becasue of all the big space(jungle terrain at top left and bottom right). Also those big ramps would make it quite easy for someone to mass units over through that area and attack their main from behind, it's a good concept but far too accesible for large armies.

Guardians would be of incredible efficiency since they are the longest air ranged units, they could fire at untis on the cliffs and just wander away without being chased becasue the units have to walk a really long way to find a ramp.

For a 1v1 game there is quite a large amount of resources. 1 main and 5 expansions for each plaeyr without counting the middle. I'd have to suggest to reduce minerals or make mineral/gas only expansions.

That isn't the problem with this map. Lost Temple has 4 mains, 8 expos (4 gas 4 mineral-only), and 2 islands. All together it has 14 bases. It doesn't matter how many start locations a map has because all maps will be played almost purely 1v1.

The problem with his map is what I said above: early zeals are impossible for terran to stop, among other things.

Beer, i look at those two side passages and see a gamble, you can bring your big army through there but if you do its possible your units could be attacked by air units, but only zerg have good offensive air units... I think its a good idea to have those.

Ihatett, it would take so long for zealots to get there that terran would make enough units to defend, they have more time on thier hands than the attacker.

What you guys say doesn't change my mind about this map at all.

Are you kdding me? Zealots would take no time at all to arrive, and they could come from either entrance. There are only two start locations, so protoss knows where terran is, making the rush come even faster. And can you wall on the upwards ramps? Even if you can, you sure can't wall that second huge entrance into each base.

Terran could easily turn around the battle if they build medics and rines. It would take about the time to build to marines for a zealot to arrive there, so i see no problem. I think Protoss would be more succesful with that against zerg instead.

Does anybody ever post a replay of games they or others have played on any of the maps in this forum?

Maybe you missed about 2 dozen trees that are there.


And in the mean time getting attacked at your main, great plan. If a player isn't smart enough to scout for offensives it's not my problem.


Sairs, Goliaths, being maybe smart enough to kill them in transit.

I'd suggest you stop playing back stab games and give better advice.

I was worried about that too, I'll work on it when I find some time.

Or you could just realise that the early game is going to require a little more micro than usual? Why not just wall the path? The players are on opposite corners, it's probably about a minute walk. Are you saying you'd prefer it if I just took out the second path leading to the base? In any case Zealots aren't very fast without leg enhancments.

To put it in perspective for you guys, think Jungle Story and KORHAL, those aren't imbalanced, and neither is this for those reasons.
I may be adding in a few hills to the corners (accessible from all sides though =D).
Show me a replay of you owning someone decent with those tactics and I'll believe you, but right know you're just theorycrafting.


EDIT 4/12/05: Looking back on this I was a little too harsh, I appologise. I did at least take most of these ideas into consideration for my update though, granted, with my own little spin. I'm sorry to anyone who found these very insulting, as I can see how they kind of were, at the time I was going against a well practiced theory of mine, to take into consideration everything told to me regardless of who it's from. I hope you aren't to scarred XD

Jungle Story:


Korhal of Ceres


Jungle Story is nothing like your map, so let's look at KoC.

TvP is pretty hard on that map. However, it has smaller openning than on your map, and KoC is extremely crowded, so if terran ever survives the early zeals they will have the advantage. However, Aslavic is very open, meaning that even without the early zeals terran will have a hard time.

BTW, you can't have m&m when the zeals arrive.

EDIT: TvP isn't extremely hard on KoC like originally said, but it does require intense micro.

Most maps give the advantage to Terran, I figured it was high time I made a map that didn't. When I was talking about jungle story I was refering to the pile of resourses in the middle... with 2 gas you can do a lot of damage. There were people complaining the middle was too much the focus of the game or that the corners were the focus of the game, so whatever, show me a rep.

PS: In case you didn't notice both the middle expansions and the nats can be seiged without the help of air units =/

My map also has two geysers in the middle, but the mdidle of the map doesn't look over other expos as well.

I wouldn't say that most maps *today* favor terran (which ones do you mean?), but that still wouldn't be an excuse to make an imbalanced map.

By the way, I am not trying to sound mean... I know what it is like to make a map

Im looking at the map, and here are my thoughts. And since theyre have rotational symmetry, Ill just refer to blue (top half), and thatll apply for the same for the red.

X ] There are 5 expansions, 4 of those with gas, not counting the middle expos. 3 of those gas expos are relatively close to each other. I think that should be tweaked.

x ] Speaking of expos, you got two of them right next to each other, with the only difference being that the gas on one is farther. You should have just one gas between the two, or expand the high ground where the bottom-most expo is.

x ] The middle. While it can hold some strategic value, the resources there seem out of place. IMO I think you should remove those and just have a big doodad in the middle.

x ] The high ground expo dead center and top: put a 24 mineral node where a cc would be, so that youll need air transport to actually expand there, seeing as how theres lots of gas available already.

x ] Vary your terrain. You have the basic structure of every down now. The least you could do to break away from the monotonous symmetry is to change up the terrain. Add specks of dirt here and there. Mud would be good too. Same for the high ground. Its not very appealing when theyre all in chunks of one or two terrains.

Well, I guess thats it for now.

Not really. By the time your opponent has a decent zealot force you coul've only have built enough to properly block/protect only 1 entrance. If the Protoss player si smart he will scout both entrances first to see which one is elss defended. Then they will send the zlots that way, possibly going straight for the CC.

Allz i gotta say is-

Im terran. I build 12 seige tanx. I build some cloaking air units. I rule those secondary bases without being touched. Over he wall.

But its good anyway...

How will you build tanks if you are being harrasses by very early zeals?

just ignore Warhamma, he doesnt know anything, i like the map, i just think its against terran too much, which i really dont have a problem with

Why is an imblanced map a good thing?

i dunno man, im on that chronic, so i really dont know

wesmic likes to play Protoss

I like to play zerg which would also be easy for me in the map since I could mass any unit through the back area ebcause the choke is so big. Muta harassment will be more of a problem for me than for him because I won't be able to go around his base. Lurkers would own the back entrance because it's just a straight paggage. I'd go guards/mutas through the front of the base.

Yes, i like to play protoss, but im best with zerg, i just like playing protoss because i dont have to do as much shit, which probably explains why my apm is only 60-80 with toss

I'm also toss, but that doesn't mean I like to play maps rigged in my favor. I just don't have the speed to be very good with terran yet.

I don't think this map disadvantages Terran that much. People are just so unused to this style of map (maybe because they've hardly played) they don't understand there's more to stratagies then just the average cookie cutter build. You've yet to show me a replay of your theorys in action. I'm also seeing mixed unbalances, one person says it's too easy for terran another for protoss and another for Zerg. It all sounds like bullshit too. BeeR, you've been bsing on money maps too much, tech like that isn't easy shit when you have to army a lot to keep from being seiged or losing the middle. Some of the advice is getting to be piss poor. Do you not want to show me a rep because you feel it's a waste of time or because you aren't good enough to pull any of your theories off against a decent player (you might be able to find a few from x17 but that channel has gone downhill, though it's better than playing someone from staredit). If you want me to take the side path out I'll modify the map and change it to something else so you can compare. I'll make a host of changes but I'm just going to wait a bit for some more responses, see if someone has something usful to add.