Report, edit, etc...Posted by Red2Blue on 2005-04-20 at 00:12:59
SIGH.... again?
I never wanted this topic to be some big disscussion,
It was for fun alright?
There was nothing serious about it.
Yet everyone is making it some serious deal.
You melee people are sure serious about everything.
This will be my last post in the melee section.
I never wanted this topic to be some big disscussion,
It was for fun alright?
There was nothing serious about it.
Yet everyone is making it some serious deal.
You melee people are sure serious about everything.
This will be my last post in the melee section.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-04-20 at 06:51:26
Adios.
I think its best we just let this die now...
Unless of course people are going to post strats.
I think its best we just let this die now...
Unless of course people are going to post strats.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-04-20 at 08:00:02
Look, Red2Blue. First, you ASKED to get critism on your (almost-impossible) strategy, we're not a strategy forum here, but rather a bunch of perfectionists that seeks to make their maps better each time.
Worst place you can come and say "it was only for fun". Next time, go visit the genera gamming forum instead, if you don't want to be GGed by people that are fanatic of melee gamming (and obviously you aren't).
Worst place you can come and say "it was only for fun". Next time, go visit the genera gamming forum instead, if you don't want to be GGed by people that are fanatic of melee gamming (and obviously you aren't).
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-04-20 at 10:48:21
Dont try to convince him to came back and say more to us.
Also, just for the record, I never agreed with that strategy, I was just saying that he did not deserve being yelled at. After hearing your crude remarks i now see the light. He deserved it for posting something so stupid.
But now hes not coming back. He thinks were all pricks. lol, we are.
Also, just for the record, I never agreed with that strategy, I was just saying that he did not deserve being yelled at. After hearing your crude remarks i now see the light. He deserved it for posting something so stupid.
But now hes not coming back. He thinks were all pricks. lol, we are.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Red2Blue on 2005-04-22 at 19:41:58
Breaking a statement... for another post.
I don't think you guys are pricks. You all are definitely cool people.
And I should have understood that this is definitely not the place to play around.
I guess it hurts to try to step out of the box and introduce something new. From now on, lets just play within the box.
I love melee as much as the next guy.
Being GGed is how you learn.
PS.
This could have been prevented if I just said, "use this strategy in a money map," which had never crossed my mind...
Oh well, you live some, and you learn some.
I don't think you guys are pricks. You all are definitely cool people.
And I should have understood that this is definitely not the place to play around.
I guess it hurts to try to step out of the box and introduce something new. From now on, lets just play within the box.
QUOTE
if you don't want to be GGed by people that are fanatic of melee gamming(and obviously you aren't).
I love melee as much as the next guy.
Being GGed is how you learn.
PS.
This could have been prevented if I just said, "use this strategy in a money map," which had never crossed my mind...
Oh well, you live some, and you learn some.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by MapUnprotector on 2005-04-22 at 20:36:43
QUOTE
I guess it hurts to try to step out of the box and introduce something new. From now on, lets just play within the box.
It sounds like you are trying to make it as if just because your "out-of-the-box" strategy doesn't work, then any out of the box strategy won't work. It's perfectly fine to step out of the box and introduce something new, as long as it's practical to do in a game. If you don't have the resources to actually do the strategy without being able to keep up your economy, and defend against attacks, which people said you can't do with your strategy, then the strategy is useless, and can never be practically done in a game.
I just wanted to put my two cents in
Just thought you were making an incorrect statement about stepping out of the box.I also don't think money map strategies are would be seriously talked about here
-.-, this topic seemed like it was for a serious discussion and criticize it in an actual game situation.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-04-22 at 20:37:30
It would have been even worst if you did that 
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Red2Blue on 2005-04-22 at 21:02:45
-.- Let me just not say anything now...
And when I mean stepping out of the box...
My example was like stepping 3 miles outside of the box. There are ideas where stepping a few paces outside is good.
Blahblah..
And when I mean stepping out of the box...
My example was like stepping 3 miles outside of the box. There are ideas where stepping a few paces outside is good.
Blahblah..
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-04-24 at 14:37:23
Nukes have only one purpose in the game. No it isn't vs protoss in a faked game. No, it isn't against an 8-base zerg. It's in a tvt where you obviuolsy have the game won, but you can't get close enough to their base because of how bad they are turtling. Even then, using nukes are dubious.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-04-24 at 16:15:49
QUOTE(PsychoTemplar @ Apr 24 2005, 02:14 PM)
What makes you think Nuke rushes Vs. Toss are faked? It's not always easy for Protoss to scout stratagies Vs. Terran if Terran does a good job of hiding his tech. In TvT if I were going ghosts I'd rather get lockdown than Nukes because seige tanks will own your ghost anyway. That was honestly the most narrow minded thing I've seen you say. It's things like that that are pro replay drones (those people who simply copy whoever seems most succesful).
Honestly, that pisses me off, pretty much anything can be devestating if the opponent isn't expecting it (and it's an effective counter to their current stratagy). I seriously doubt nuke rushes have been faked against protoss, who would waste their time?
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Honestly, that pisses me off, pretty much anything can be devestating if the opponent isn't expecting it (and it's an effective counter to their current stratagy). I seriously doubt nuke rushes have been faked against protoss, who would waste their time?
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Show me a nuke rush against toss that isn't faked. ONE!?
Nope, the one in pimpest plays is pretty much universally accepted either a fake, or was against a complete and total newb who had no idea what he was doing. Boxer was playing a guy with like 60 apm who was making decisions that either a complete newb would do, or something that would happen in a staged game. Either way, it isn't real.
Going lockdown tvt is stupid because you couldn't ever get in range of the tanks. The only game I have ever seen that work in is nada vs. some random guy, where nada wanted to humiliate him by going mass ghosts.
Still, post one replay of a real game with good players with a nuke rush. You'd be suprised how hard it is to find something when there are 0 of them.
And if my comments make me a "pro replay drone", yours make you a theorycrafting newb.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-04-24 at 18:55:22
You can't make a claim that something works, and then be a baby and refuse to post any replay of it. Without any proof, all of it is theorycrafting.
I almost never watch replays, I only play and watch vods. It seems a pattern of newbs: they post a strat, which sucks, and then when someone tells the newb that it doesn't work, they say that the other guy refuses to think outside of the box, and just copies pros. There is a *edit* reason that they are pros, they know how to play the game. Why should anyone listen to you who won't post a game backing up your claim over the wealth of knowledge built up from good players? Nukes suck, not all units were created equal.
Maybe you should ask over at pgtour or teamliquid what they think of the boxer nuke rush?
I almost never watch replays, I only play and watch vods. It seems a pattern of newbs: they post a strat, which sucks, and then when someone tells the newb that it doesn't work, they say that the other guy refuses to think outside of the box, and just copies pros. There is a *edit* reason that they are pros, they know how to play the game. Why should anyone listen to you who won't post a game backing up your claim over the wealth of knowledge built up from good players? Nukes suck, not all units were created equal.
Maybe you should ask over at pgtour or teamliquid what they think of the boxer nuke rush?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-04-29 at 10:46:00
Im not a very big fan of TL.net
Its too hard to keep track of topics, there are too many people. Many who just say what they see the pros say..
Ihatett, your remarks in this thread are the kind of things that made PyschoTemplar leave. You often say things that piss people off. Any new person that comes into this forum says that you are too harsh and thats why they dont post here.
So work on your replies to people. Try and say things so they sound nice. Thats basically all im saying.
^The above is just a criticism, I just want to let you know that sometimes your posts sound harsh.
Its too hard to keep track of topics, there are too many people. Many who just say what they see the pros say..
Ihatett, your remarks in this thread are the kind of things that made PyschoTemplar leave. You often say things that piss people off. Any new person that comes into this forum says that you are too harsh and thats why they dont post here.
So work on your replies to people. Try and say things so they sound nice. Thats basically all im saying.
^The above is just a criticism, I just want to let you know that sometimes your posts sound harsh.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-04-30 at 02:15:31
QUOTE(Yenku @ Apr 29 2005, 09:46 AM)
Im not a very big fan of TL.net
Its too hard to keep track of topics, there are too many people. Many who just say what they see the pros say..
Its too hard to keep track of topics, there are too many people. Many who just say what they see the pros say..
In other words, it is a large community, and people give the same advice that the proven-excellent players give? Oh, the horrors!
QUOTE
Ihatett, your remarks in this thread are the kind of things that made PyschoTemplar leave. You often say things that piss people off. Any new person that comes into this forum says that you are too harsh and thats why they dont post here.
So work on your replies to people. Try and say things so they sound nice. Thats basically all im saying.
^The above is just a criticism, I just want to let you know that sometimes your posts sound harsh.
So work on your replies to people. Try and say things so they sound nice. Thats basically all im saying.
^The above is just a criticism, I just want to let you know that sometimes your posts sound harsh.
You are you more harsh than me when replying to maps.
However, if someone says something wrong, and then criticizes my correction without backing up their claim, I have every right to be harsh.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-04-30 at 14:16:06
QUOTE
In other words, it is a large community, and people give the same advice that the proven-excellent players give? Oh, the horrors!
sarcasm? lol
QUOTE
You are you more harsh than me when replying to maps.
I give constructive criticism, maybe it seems harsh because i try and help them and they dont want help?
QUOTE
However, if someone says something wrong, and then criticizes my correction without backing up their claim, I have every right to be harsh.
righto
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-04-30 at 14:36:41
1.) Of course I was being sarcastic
2.) Your unprovoked harshenss is "constructive criticism", but my provoked harshness is plain harshness? You don't think I have a point behind what I say?
come on, man
2.) Your unprovoked harshenss is "constructive criticism", but my provoked harshness is plain harshness? You don't think I have a point behind what I say?
come on, man
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-04-30 at 20:13:36
No, i do. I said sorry.
Although, if you look at my criticisms I dont dis the maps, it jus tseems harsh because, well frankly the maps suck.
Although, if you look at my criticisms I dont dis the maps, it jus tseems harsh because, well frankly the maps suck.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-04-30 at 22:21:29
yes, and frankly his strategy sucked
however, I am always nice until they start insulting me for correcting them
however, I am always nice until they start insulting me for correcting them
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-05-01 at 15:01:17
ok I understand, I know why you said what you did.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Red2Blue on 2005-05-01 at 15:07:33
Wow, its pretty redundant for you guys to go on and on for dozens of posts saying how its a horrible strategy. I already said it was a horrible strategy. Accept that. Theres no need to continually rub it in over and over; unless that gives you some sort of joy.
I wonder who looks like an "asshole"...
QUOTE
It's kind of a bad idea to call your stratagies unique because it makes you look like an asshole =/ Maybe just say you were trying to be unique?
I wonder who looks like an "asshole"...
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-01 at 16:02:05
Blizzard doesn't want to improve nukes because it would require rebalancing the entire game. It's not because they are good. I've seen both nukes and burrow used, but nukes are only used to humilliate your opponent, or break a rediculous defense when you have obviously won. Burrow is used much more, and I'm sure you could find a replay of it. You can't find a replay of a nuke used for anything else because if you did try to use it you would be too far behind to have a chance to win.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by wesmic da pimp on 2005-05-01 at 22:35:34
I have seen this pro player RANDOMINATOR use infest CC in a ZvT game, and it worked brilliantly as he dropped an ovie with 6 lings and two infested terrans and i must say people just overlook the chance of stealing an injured CC and getting a unit that can do 500 damage for 100 minerals and 50 gas (and 1 supply). The pro player Canata (my favorite sc player) used nukes in a terrific manner, using Emp and then the nuke, and it'd kill the nexus. Starcraft in my opinion is perfectly balanced, all the upgrades are advantageous for their cost (even ovie sight, restoration, parasite, yamato, etc...)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-01 at 22:41:38
Randominator isn't a pro, it's Liquid Drone from teamliquid.net.
He's *really* good though.
Think about the nuking, though: could he have killed the nexus easier if he had spent the money on tank+vult?
He's *really* good though.
Think about the nuking, though: could he have killed the nexus easier if he had spent the money on tank+vult?
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Loser_Musician on 2005-05-01 at 23:17:22
I can obviously tell this won't work, and I havn't even played melee in about half a year. (maybe more)
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Yenku on 2005-05-02 at 13:36:49
QUOTE(PsychoTemplar @ May 1 2005, 03:19 PM)
... =/
All I was arguing is that there is no useless upgrade or unit in the game. Yes, even overlord sight is worth it's cost if the map is right. The reason I can't come up with some random replay is the same reason you probably can't come up with one that uses burrow. What I'm saying is, it's unfair to ask me to come up with a replay showing the use of a [insert little used spell/unit here] when strats that use it are so rare. Another example... can you find me a replay of someone infesting a CC? Unlikly, but it's good when you wanna get your units doing other things after you bring it down to half health (plus it's a huge moral loss for the enemy).
I'm sorry I couldn't put up a better argument for the usfulness of a nuke, but I'm fairly certain there are odd situations in a game that they could have been used, else Blizzard would have made it more powerful in patch 1.11 (oh wait, they did).
I don't really think Ihatett was being too harsh, but I was only trying to add something new to the topic.
Sorry for the extra post, but you were kinda calling me out.
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All I was arguing is that there is no useless upgrade or unit in the game. Yes, even overlord sight is worth it's cost if the map is right. The reason I can't come up with some random replay is the same reason you probably can't come up with one that uses burrow. What I'm saying is, it's unfair to ask me to come up with a replay showing the use of a [insert little used spell/unit here] when strats that use it are so rare. Another example... can you find me a replay of someone infesting a CC? Unlikly, but it's good when you wanna get your units doing other things after you bring it down to half health (plus it's a huge moral loss for the enemy).
I'm sorry I couldn't put up a better argument for the usfulness of a nuke, but I'm fairly certain there are odd situations in a game that they could have been used, else Blizzard would have made it more powerful in patch 1.11 (oh wait, they did).
I don't really think Ihatett was being too harsh, but I was only trying to add something new to the topic.
Sorry for the extra post, but you were kinda calling me out.
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^Actually, i like this backup fine.
QUOTE(Alpha(MC) @ May 1 2005, 11:17 PM)
I can obviously tell this won't work, and I havn't even played melee in about half a year. (maybe more)
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Yes, we established that 3 pages ago.
I think that SC is very balanced, of course there are somethings that could have been tweaked to mak games better, but w/e.
Every unit in SC has a purpose.
I think, when blizzard was making SC, they made terran so they could use nukes in many situations. They thought they should make that an option when needed. but, i think its not useful enough, or too hard to pull off, so people dont use nukes.
Report, edit, etc...Posted by Staredit.Net Essence on 2005-05-03 at 22:06:20
i've already seen this, but I'll watch it again... if I remember correctly it only proves my point
ADDITION:
Come on, you're better than this, but that was a very fun game to watch.
Why didn't the terran do tank/vult drops instead of the nukes? Do you really think nukes were the more efficient? Do you not think terran was toying with the protoss because they had a perfect economy? Plus, why didn't protoss build a single templar untill so late when they new terran was going m&m + lot's of drops?
This is an beatiful game because of everything the terran managed to do, not because they won the game due to choosing nukes. Terran had impeccable micro, but they were toying with the protoss. You must realize that. Which, by the way, is one of the uses for nukes I mentioned.
I love unorthadox stratiegies (look at my icon), but what I say about nukes are true.
ADDITION:
Come on, you're better than this, but that was a very fun game to watch.
Why didn't the terran do tank/vult drops instead of the nukes? Do you really think nukes were the more efficient? Do you not think terran was toying with the protoss because they had a perfect economy? Plus, why didn't protoss build a single templar untill so late when they new terran was going m&m + lot's of drops?
This is an beatiful game because of everything the terran managed to do, not because they won the game due to choosing nukes. Terran had impeccable micro, but they were toying with the protoss. You must realize that. Which, by the way, is one of the uses for nukes I mentioned.
I love unorthadox stratiegies (look at my icon), but what I say about nukes are true.