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It's stable enough
I can already imagine Broody getting a list of stuff to change, update or remove hah!

He'll hate us

We should just make a huge text document of everything we want DatEdit to do and PM it to him once he gets back. "DatEdit should: Not do that one bug(I'm making that up; I haven't really found any,) hack the exe, cure cancer..."

I just updated to the new version, and it works perfectly fine.

[offtopic]nice to see I still havn't done anything other than testing, I guess none of my unknown research counts

[ontopic]you might want to be careful with all the extra features, DatEdit is losing user-friendliness

Hmm about the homework I wanted to give you, seems some don't quite work ...
Well I'll put in a good word for you...






... eventually
But on a serious note now, if you do want to help me double check some unknowns (asssuming I will be correct) let me know (even if you don't have 25h/8h access to SC

To be uber-perfectly honest, I think I'm pretty much done with DatEdit already. TBL-Editing doesn't appeal to me as a feature anymore, there's TBLPad for that, and it is a hassle to implement, as well as a loss in user-friendliness. When I think of it, the possible future releases/updates will probably cover ONLY bugfixes and unknowns updates.

That's right gentlemen, after a year of development and discussion, I think we're already there

Well the TBL Editor is as user-friendly as possible: a list of strings on the left and a window on the right to change them. DatEd is cool cos all you have to do is point and click to change stuff. While TBL editing would be nice, as you said we already have a tool for that.

... on the other hand, here is a nice feature (which will make you hate me for suggesting): make a plugin support which will let us add tabs or panels or checkboxes or rename them... who knows, maybe someone will make a new TBL plugin that adds a new tab that lets you do that. That way you won't have too much hassle and if DatEd breaks we can blame him (or her) for making the plugin

Plus plugins seems the only way to "add" features to DatEd without actually changing it (in case someone prefers it as it is). Just a thought.

... don't hate me TOO much please

I don't care if you're correct or not, I'd like to hear any theories you have since I often start off with a theory,
then when examining the unknown to check if it works, I usually find out what it actually does

OMFG BK I LOVE YOU!! If you were a girl I'd kiss (but you're not so go f**k off )
Well your favorite spammer (me) has did it again. This counts as the second Unknown I found in orders.dat (yes accurately and tested). BK, thanks to a comment you made in the FG thread you pushed me in the right direction and I completed your research on that unknown (*hint* Unknown10)

I am not sure if BK will agree to rename "Can be interrupted" to "Can be stopped" (meaning that'd make 3 flags I found/updated). But I found Unknown8 and Unknown10.

Well 8 to go
DoA will kiss me even if I am not a girl for this muahahaha !!!

TF no worries, as soon as I find something I know should work but doesn't I'll PM you the homework. ATM I need to play with my mind (no naughty thoughts sickos ) a bit

I sense BK will have a lot of work for the next ver

BTW - new DatEd suggestion: add the possibility of selecting multiple list items and editing them all at the same time. For example selecting Marines, Corsairs and Wraiths and making them invincible or spellcasters or whatever, instead of having to check that checkbox for each item.

1. you keep mentioning these unknowns you've solved and where they are, but you never tell us what they are.

2. so you're only gonna let me play with the ones that didn't work?

3. I have already sugguested that several times and so have several other people, but he doesn't like the idea.

Sorry for my absence, I've been in Germany.

This is nearing perfection. Incredible good work! Way to go!

TheNomad: DatEdit is open source. Implementing a plugin system is quite a bit of a hazzle, I'd imagine, and really not necessary at all. If we miss a feature or find a bug and BK dissapears, then it's easy to fix it ourselves.

Also, as TF said, please avoid PMs. The rest of us want to know what you've found as well as the unknowns and theories about unknowns that you're working on.

Seems that's incorrect, look at how almost every order uses it, even the ones that can't be blocked.

Example: "Guard", "Attack", "Hover", "Right Click Action", "patrol", Etc


but it seems you did get close to having it correct, that may be the function for another flag.

ADDITION: Unknown 7 seems similar to that, so I guess we need to test it out.

~Edit~ Nope, Unknown 7 doesn't do that and neither does any other flags.

It's simple. If you'll see what I wrote Unk10 applies ONLY TO GROUND UNITS. That means ground units will not be able to move on water or other impossible to reach terrain. Not applicable for air units.

OK I'll post the unknowns I found (I'll update this if I find more):

1. ORDERS.DAT

Current name: Unknown 06
Real name: Can be interrupted
Suggested name: Can be stopped
Explanation: Allows the Action to be interrupted; Alternatively, it loops the order i.e. disabling it on Feedback makes it cast it indefinitely. Just like AutoHeal...

Current name: Unknown 08
Real name: Queue
Explanation: Allows the current order to be enqueued by using SHIFT

Current name: Unknown 10
Real name: Blocked by obstacles
Explanation: ATM tested only for water, this flag makes a spell not being able to be cast over terrain obstacles, such as water (maybe cliffs/doodads too ?). Exception: ONLY APPLIES TO GROUND UNITS.

I know unknown 10 is wrong since you can get a unit on water (it's confusing though, so don't ask me to explain) and kill it.

It isn't wrong.
Or at least it shouldn't be more than 5%. Just set Dark Swarm or Plague to Unk10 (and disable Unk12 just to be sure ) and be amazed how they can't be casted.

Disabling Unk10 won't let units go on water terrain until their Flyer property is enabled (or at least in theory).

OK here is the homework: check Unk10 (Unk8 was pretty much checked so it should work) and tell me if it's right or wrong. That way at least it wil be accurate one way or another

ADDITION:
Minor update: Unk10 means "don't cast over obstacles" only when targeting terrain. If you attempt to target a single unit (even if it will hit multiple ones) it would still work. Also, if you'd have, let's say water between a High Templar and a Dark Archon, and the Maelstrom couldn't reach the templar, but you'd put a flying unit a bit in front of the Templar and Maelstrom the flyer, it'd affect the templar

Simply put, you got the effect unknown 10 does right, you just don't have the cause and therefore missed some of it's effects.

Testing this in-game wouldn't help either unless I could test it on every order, but that would take too long.


The only way you can easily figure out what the cause is, is to go inside the exe and check.

Tested a bit more and it can't be cast on cliffs from lower terrain either (tested without having vision up) but can be cast on a unit attacking the dark archon that is on a cliff.

So for short, from my testing, it won't let you target terrain properly (water cliffs) but it will let you target units (if in range).

As for what you said, there is no doubt that it isn't 100% accurately described. I would say I am right 100% in the case of spells, as for behaviour and actions, I am pretty much sure that you are correct.

ADDITION:
New bug found (hope it wasn't reported oO): the USED BY proeprty is no longer updated in DatEd 1.1

The Weapons, Techs and everything have a blank entry in USED BY. While this has no impact on SC, those always helped me (and I think others).
Oh yeah, and don't forget about the messed up icons for weapons in DatEd.

Also, I compiled a nicer Orders list, to make it a bit mroe user friendly and easier to understand. While it isn't 100% accurate and not perfect, it is still better I think and also more self explanatory. For those interested:



A few explanations are in order.

1. MASTERS: That means units that have slave units such as Carriers (having Interceptors) and Reavers (using Scarabs).

2. BRACKETS: The brackets mean the unit it applies to. For example:
Infest Building - Means the building that can be infested (i.e. Command Center) and the script that does the conversion
Cast Spell (Infest 1) , Cast Spell (Infest 2) , Infest (Queen) - all these 3 are orders and not scripts and refer to the actual spell casting that occurs.
Guard (Building) - it means the building is using the order (i.e. a photon cannon or sunken are defending but NOT attacking yet), it doesn't mean that it issues an order to guard a building.

3. ORDERS: As you saw I did a nice categorization based on orders (Move, Attack etc.) and I just added the unit they apply to, in order to make it easier to see...

4. SCRIPT: Most units havetheir own script... Larvas just roam around (and they die if they don't have the juicy yummy creep), Medics just look around ofr hurt units and Auto Heal them, etc. Alternatively, I also added Passive scripts to this category (Computer controlled units, Neutral units, Rescuable units etc.) and also some Orders or Spells (Cloak all nearby units, make creep etc.)

5. UNUSED: OK now this is one of the main things that doesn't make it 100% accurate. I am not completely sure that they really are unused. I am pretty sure the "unused" orders are the ones belonging to the Computer. But until someone can really double check this, I'll leave them as that... As you will see in the list, there are a few Actions that are strictly referring to the Computer.

6. NAMING: Some names may not be too well chosen are even accurate, but as I said, I did as much research as I could... I still want to see the difference between all the Harvest and Build commands. Because there is no "Build (Drone)" order, I will assume the "Drone Start Mutate" and "Drone Mutate" are the ones doing the hassle (still not sure atm). As for the Drone lift-off and land orders, I will assume they are the ones that make the drone burrow a bit just before building, respectively unburrow if you cancel. Also, I assume tinkering with the code here would fix the floating drone bug.

Yes I know, some of the names don't quite match the normal MG and DatED lists perfectly (like "Cloaking Nearby Units"), but after researching, I found out that the actual spell for cloaking units is actually "Init Arbiter" and the other seems to freeze the unit if called (perhaps the internal script or something else). Same for Recall, "Teleport" is the actual Spell, while "Teleport To Location", freezes the Arbiter. It seems that it might be a script or something else used independently. As I said, they are more or less accurate the way I did them.

I will be honest, the ones I am not 100% sure about are "Allow Transport", "Load Transport (Overlord)" and "Load Transport (Normal)" as they are a bit "weirder", but after a bit of research in MG, that is what they came out as. More research with these 3 would be appreciated.

I hope this cleared some of the confusions regarding Orders. I'd say I kinda found out about 30%-40% of what is going on in this dat file, but there is still a long way to go. For those of you wanting to contribute and help me find out more, you can post in my "dat files thread" here.

Hey - what can I say ? I don't want BK to get bored so I have to give him homework

1. have you actually tried what happens if you uncheck it? for example: can it shoot over the water and up the cliff?

2. I don't have that bug, maybe your DatEdit version is corrupted? (if so, you can fix it by re-downloading)


P.S. That list isn't how I wanted mine, they're completely differant types of lists that should work well together.

1. yes
2. do you mean DatEd 1.1d ?
3. yeah, that list was an attempt for disambiguation

2. yes, I meant I was using 1.1d

do you know if you can change like turret attack to attack ground through the orders.dat???? cause that would make some things really cool in the map im working on

"Attack Ground" doesn't do what you think. It is the former "Attack Tile" which I think is used in the Installation tileset to shoot traps. It doesn't attack the terrain like in Warcraft

Still, to change it, you can do it via the AI manager for units in DatEdit (change Attack Unit and Attack Move for the Tank Turret, but it won't change its behaviour noticebly).

yeah i know how to change it, i was just hoping i could make it attack ground and not by casting a spell, cause it seems like that is the only way to target ground areas, using spells.

I dont suppose you could change a auto attack, like tower attack to be more like casting a spell so it can target ground?? Ive been tinkering with this but no success so far

Nevermind... I am a noob... forgot I had Back-Reporting turned off



Hmm don't think so... Come to think of it, I don't think there is a weapon that attacks the ground (without being used in a spell that is)

yeah they always target a unit