Staredit Network

Staredit Network -> Website Feedback, Bugs & Discussion -> Why is Staredit.net supporting MAp unprotectors?

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Red2Blue on 2006-02-10 at 16:39:54

QUOTE

We cannot do games with secrets!

Halo had over 230 secrets (easter eggs if you will).
Starcraft had over 500 secrets (sprites, hidden units, hidden scripts).

Secrets make the world go round.
If one knew all the joys and secrets of something without the journey of finding it, then there would be no point of playing it.

There are essentially two kinds of people, those who play the game to become elitists, and those who play the game to find glitches and secrets. Trigger viewer ruins the second genre of players.

I guess it's way more fun to get all the secrets at one time...
We all might as well make a map and then post in huge bold letters all of the secrets in the map from the beginning.

QUOTE(Forsaken)

I am all for "Non-Protected" Maps.

They are way more beneficial. And it's sad that people have to horde information from others.

If/when, I release my maps, they will be unprotected. I don't see the purpose in holding out on people who are curious to learn.

AS for the trigger viewer... Keep it going! tongue.gif

We horde information? Why don't you check out the staredit map assistance forum and see how we are hording information.

Holding out information? Ha... literally every question asked in the staredit map assistance section is answered fully. The only questions that aren't answered are the ones that are obvious.

That's no excuse to keep such a revealing program.

ADDITION:
http://www.staredit.net/index.php?tutorial=251
I found this nifty tutorial that Yoshi_Da_Sniper wrote on protection.
All valid points which are violated by trigger viewer.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Merrell on 2006-02-10 at 16:55:41

Can you stop using all of these wisdom stories in 90% of your posts? It kind of get's annoying. He's right about the secret corrupting, what if there was a prize or something for winning (you get a password?) I could just open the map and list the password.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Oblivion on 2006-02-10 at 17:21:47

Dang it, I hate map stealers. I wish them to burn in hell

Report, edit, etc...Posted by yeow on 2006-02-10 at 17:29:57

QUOTE(Red2Blue @ Feb 10 2006, 04:39 PM)

There are essentially two kinds of people, those who play the game to become elitists, and those who play the game to find glitches and secrets. Trigger viewer ruins the second genre of players.
[right][snapback]423640[/snapback][/right]

Here's an idea if your the second type of person -- Don't download Trigger Viewer. It's the same with Video Games and Guide books. They don't make you buy the guide book (unless you buy it in like a pack) but it's there incase you get stuck.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by MindArchon on 2006-02-10 at 18:00:56

QUOTE(Red2Blue @ Feb 10 2006, 02:39 PM)

QUOTE(Forsaken)

So then, people who look for secrets could look for them on their own, and not use trigger viewer. I fail to see how this destroys anything.

QUOTE(Merrell @ Feb 10 2006, 02:55 PM)

Getting rid of the Trigger Viewer won't do anything to solve this problem. You can open up a chk in Hex Workshop, and do a strings search, actually its FASTER then using Trigger Viewer, because you don't have to look through all the triggers.

QUOTE(Oblivion @ Feb 10 2006, 03:21 PM)

Dang it, I hate map stealers. I wish them to burn in hell

[right][snapback]423961[/snapback][/right]

.. This doesnt unprotect the map, and you cant steal the map. What is your point?

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Commanda_Panda on 2006-02-10 at 19:17:34

I agree. Burn the Trigger Viewer and whoever made it.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Demaris on 2006-02-10 at 19:35:46

That's like saying don't make guns because people will misuse them.

Some people will ALWAYS misuse a program.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathawk on 2006-02-10 at 19:40:17

You can't relate personal security to looking at triggers, and good luck misusing paint.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2006-02-10 at 19:40:25

QUOTE(Demaris @ Feb 10 2006, 07:35 PM)

That's like saying don't make guns because people will misuse them.

Some people will ALWAYS misuse a program.

[right][snapback]424072[/snapback][/right]

This isn't about program misuse. This is about the intentions and reasons for this program and why they are bad in the first place.

It's like saying Spyware is good but people misuse it.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cloud on 2006-02-10 at 21:46:20

QUOTE(LegacyWeapon @ Feb 11 2006, 12:40 AM)

This isn't about program misuse. This is about the intentions and reasons for this program and why they are bad in the first place.
[right][snapback]424082[/snapback][/right]

the hell do you mean its bad in the first place. if everyone decided to protect their maps, how are other people gonna learn how to make maps.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2006-02-10 at 21:57:04

QUOTE(Mp)Cloud @ Feb 10 2006, 09:46 PM)

the hell do you mean its bad in the first place. if everyone decided to protect their maps, how are other people gonna learn how to make maps.
[right][snapback]424188[/snapback][/right]

How did the first people to make maps learn how to make maps?

Trial and error. Experimentation. Thinking and trying.

How are people making maps now?

Trial and error. Experimentation. Thinking and trying. Asking others.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Doodle77(MM) on 2006-02-10 at 22:04:11

there is nothing wrong with trigger viewer because there is no save function. if you are going to write down 500 triggers for a map go ahead, but it wont be fast, plus you still can't see the locations or the other stuff.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cloud on 2006-02-10 at 22:15:16

QUOTE(BeeR_KeG @ Feb 2 2006, 08:21 PM)

How did I learn to make maps?
Trial, error and looking at other people's work.

How do you learn math?
Trial, error and looking at other people's work.
[right][snapback]418952[/snapback][/right]

QUOTE(LegacyWeapon @ Feb 11 2006, 02:57 AM)

nice trying to steal beer's quote. guess what. those were the first people. how do we learn how to be better? Trial, error and looking at other people's work.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by LegacyWeapon on 2006-02-10 at 22:24:22

I'm pretty sure there is enough information flow to go around for new concepts.

Like I said, there are tutorials and experimental maps for people. As well as specific examples for those who ask for them.

I wasn't even trying to steal BeeR's quote...

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cloud on 2006-02-10 at 22:48:15

QUOTE(LegacyWeapon @ Feb 11 2006, 03:24 AM)

the tutorials can be very confusing. and the experimental maps, thats what they are. experiments. not solid and reliable info.

even if u didnt try and steal beers quote you did.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathawk on 2006-02-10 at 22:57:42

Don't argue with a mod, Cloud.
Secondly, I'd like to point out that there is a forum on SEN where you can get map help. It isn't that hard to get, so don't make it like this is the only place you can learn triggers.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Merrell on 2006-02-10 at 22:58:32

Mp)cloud, stop. He didn't steal ANYONE's quote. They are seperate and different. Get off of it already, stop acting like a child.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by MindArchon on 2006-02-11 at 02:37:49

QUOTE(LegacyWeapon @ Feb 10 2006, 07:57 PM)

The first people did not have complex systems. Mobile grids didn't exist, actually almost no grids existed. Map making has built up to this point, so there is a greater difference between new people and advanced people then there were 6 years ago. I am only attempting to close the gap slightly.

QUOTE(Demaris)

That's like saying don't make guns because people will misuse them.

Some people will ALWAYS misuse a program.

The point is, when people look for secrets, they look because they want to. Of COURSE they can pull out a program and look up secrets. WHO CARES? If they really want enjoyment, then they wont use the programs.

For example, think of video games. Many of them have cheat codes, but if you them lots of time the game loses its fun factor.

BTW Commanda_Panda, I find that offensive

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Red2Blue on 2006-02-11 at 05:00:08

QUOTE

So then, people who look for secrets could look for them on their own, and not use trigger viewer. I fail to see how this destroys anything.

Question: if someone was playing this truly hard game and they just didn't know how to beat it, yet had the guide just sitting in front of them, what do you think this person will do? 100% of the time, essentially every time, all humans will give in to the guide. Don't "shiz" me with that "im honorable" crud, it doesn't happen that way. That kind of stuff happens in the little fairy world that doesn't exist. Dream all you want, but it is simple and straightforward: "if theres a way to abuse information and get a shortcut to the madness, then it WILL be used." Thus triggerviewer is simply that gap to getting towards the solution.

QUOTE

Most people do not know what a hex editor is. You don't have to label cheats and easter eggs and the like, which makes it even harder to get through a hex editor; essentially making the Trigger Viewer an easier path to the information. Rawr.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Deathawk on 2006-02-11 at 13:35:15

If they have to cheat to complete a UMS map on Starcraft, then that's their fault, because in the end, all you get is a message saying YOU WON!

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cloud on 2006-02-11 at 15:22:27

QUOTE(Dorkhawk @ Feb 11 2006, 03:57 AM)

1. im just defending a good program that doesnt steal other people's work, its the person using it that steals the work.

QUOTE(Merrell @ Feb 11 2006, 03:58 AM)

Mp)cloud, stop. He didn't steal ANYONE's quote. They are seperate and different. Get off of it already, stop acting like a child.
[right][snapback]424233[/snapback][/right]

2. thanks for the spam, give yourself a pat on the back.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by MindArchon on 2006-02-12 at 19:18:31

QUOTE(Phant @ Feb 12 2006, 04:54 PM)

But what we loose are 'secrets' within multiplayer games!

There you cheat your human opponents with cheating a 'secret'.
Instead of having to play the map over and over again

and become a real 'good player' at this map, you can cheat the activation tasks for the advanced skills by yust viewing the map with the ~~Un-Protection~~ programm

and search for the needed triggers.

And this will also be relatively easy, also with 'chaotic' triggers as described above.(the ones from that you cannot learn without unreasonable effort)
[right][snapback]425674[/snapback][/right]

Whoever decides to add triggers in a multiplayer game that gives an unfair advantage towards one or more players obviously is not making a map properly. It's unbalanced, and if one of the players finds the "secret" naturally, then you STILL will have it be not fun for the remaining players. It doesn't matter if the secret is found with triggerviewer, or by playing the map.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Wilhelm on 2006-02-12 at 19:39:08

This is stupid. Triggerviewer isn't a map unprotector. There's no way you can ensure that no one can read your triggers (the aforementioned .chk method). Your trigger systems are not yours and yours alone, it's like saying because you put together a puzzle that no one else may put together that puzzle. If you want to get into ownership, Blizzard owns your triggers, your maps, and your Starcraft. You agreed to that when you installed Starcraft.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by Cloud on 2006-02-12 at 20:35:12

QUOTE(Phant @ Feb 12 2006, 11:54 PM)

@Mp)Cloud (and some others): Please stop talking here about the 'learn to make UMS maps'. Especially don't repeat the same things over and over again.

All of it have been unproven and is, without NEW arguments, not anymore subject of this thread!
[right][snapback]425674[/snapback][/right]

and i thought i was stupid. maybe you can learn how to make maps with your small ass peanut brain, but other people have troble with these areas. anything i repeat is very valid, and proven. now take some time to process that in your thick skull.

Report, edit, etc...Posted by DT_Battlekruser on 2006-02-13 at 20:48:39

Calm down; these are just forums. You don't need to flame and attack people who disagree with the virture of the trigger viewer as if they are sinners. Warned for flaming.

Next Page (4)