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I agree with millennium...

I thought his rpg was pimpage and i agree with everything he rated it on the map reviews...


Hopefuly #2 will have better terrain... I think you could've improved on that...

10/10? Wow i'd rate it 8/10
and because MilleniumArmy overrated tooo much...
If someone who has skills in rating maps. It'd be about 8/10, cause the terrain was off in some places, and yet it was to plain... starforge tiles 100% in some places without random tiles, and the unit names were un-neat. i'd rate Neatness 6/10, Creativity 7/10, Orignallity 7/10, Complexity 6/10, Fun Level 7.5/10, and Overall 8/10... Cause nothing was extraordenary or VERY impressive, and the terrain from very top to very right were confusing...

Alright, maybe i might've overrated that map, but it definitely doesnt suck, which is what it seems like u're implying.

That rpg may not be perfect as it isnt but lemme ask u these things: Could you have made that rpg better? Maybe but not by much. Would you have ever thought of an idea like that? Not likely. Would you have made it more fun? I doubt it. Would you have been able to make the AI of the computers as great or better? Not likely. Not many people's games are better than his. Not even some of my best maps, nor most anyone else. So at least give him some respect and keep your comments to yourself.

And u say my map reviewings skill are bad, alright they aren't perfect, but i dont see yours any better. 6/10 in complexity?? Many typical rpgs usually get at least a 7 or more in complexity and this rpg is definitely above average. Lots of triggers were used in his game so that really doesn't deserve a 6. Originality u gave it 7/10? Have u seen any other rpgs with as advanced AI as his? I dont think so, 7/10 is definitely underrated. I can easily understand someone who'd give that RPG in creativity at least an 8/10 in that rpg but 7/10 is basically meaning that rpg isnt very creative and doesn't have anything special but it really does. Yes, maybe his map isnt very neat but 6/10 is not what this game deserves. By saying 6/10 you're basically meaning the map was somehow sloppily made but i dont think Shinra did a sloppy job in making the map.

And terrain 8/10 yes i sort of agree with you so i changed it on the map review. And ok i modified the review now. I took out the nonsense of how i gave the categories a rating over 10 and adjusted some of them. Isolated purity said that no games should really get a 10/10 cuz that means it's just perfect so i changed it to a 9.5

I didnt really see advanced AI, the only things i think are sloppy are the; terrain, unit names, briefing, and some triggers didnt work for me, like all my men were in the first comp room, then all of a sudden there like scattered across the map, in every direction...

You obviously didn't pay attention, Your men were in Freelance mode maybe if you read the text you would know that thats what they are supposed to do once you beat the computer room part and open the sewers they will all come back to you and begin following you agian, if you didn't notice there are many enemies in that first town where the computer room is and spreading out to kill them quicker was the idea, and I have no idea how the unit names were 'Sloppy' what did u want me to overlap them all? you can't really make the unit names sloppy, and the AI is advanced because ur men were mostly in the computer room to kinda hint to you thats where you needed to be, and They heal themselves and act upon there own will when in freelance mode. (And ill tell you right now its not just set junkyard dog either) The breifing is sloppy who cares?!?! how many people acually read the beifing anyway. Next time pay more attention and read the text before calling a game 'Sloppy' and how would you know triggers don't execute how do you even know what triggers are even in the game the only way you would know is if u saw them execute, which means they executed duh. There are only two known bugs and thats the one in the end and the other one involving switching characters that you can find out for yourself, other than that I have yet to find any and yet to seen any reported. I have played this map fully through over 30 times testing and checking for bugs, of course about 20 of those times it was with one player and sometimes it might be a little different with more than one player. And its up to you if you want to take the rating down but I don't think it should be taken down by the thought and jelous unaware actions of one person, if you seriously think it should be taken down then go ahead, its fine by mean but it shouldn't be taken down because of Archon. So archon if you want to complain and disrespect me and/or the maps i make first you make one that gets a higher rating, and you can go ahead and pay more attention to the text, You didn't even relize that the text said "Freelance Mode Enabled" so how can you say anything about the map, how do we know you even payed attention to anything else? If you ask me I would definantly say some people are getting jelous. why can't you just be supportive?

Also im not a terrian expert i did the best i could, im not exactly an artist, but I definantly thought the terrian was alright, and i thought the other things would make up for it. and Unless you truly belive that u overrated it THAT much then go ahead and leave it down, but if it was just because of Archons actions please put it to what you and Isolated truly think it should be.

And don't forget this is just the BETA Version the next version will be even better, terrian is the best i can do tho, but Ill add more secrets and more places to use specials and I even have an idea on making the computer use its specials by itself.
Maybe that will be enough to impress the 'Ol so wonderfull voidarchon'

<Off Topic> Is my map good enough to get me the uber skill or is that just about being a friend of the moderators of SEN?

Sometimes some people are just picky about the way one person set out their map. When something was meant to work some way and they don't suit the player's mind, they seem to just not like it.

No maps are perfect, but like Shinra said - other things make up for it. He focuses on particular aspects such as AI etc. you don't develop every map and make it perfect in every aspect (you could but not often). You target a specific field and make the map special in that area.

It is sometimes okay hearing critisism, but caring for people's sensitivity is important and in addition reason and being constructive is what its all about.

Not all people will like the same map and everyone has to accept that as a fact.

Just something about rating maps, Trigger complexity is really a bit stupid, they shouldn't really have a great effect in the total score. Because how would you know if someone made their triggers really complex? Or just used a very simple way to express it? What actually takes effect in the game and how fun the map is are the important things about a map. Everyone should be aiming towards 'Trigger Simplicity' and Deathknight has mentioned this point before.

One problem that hould be fixed is that the white player isnt set as enemy to the aliens... So they walk aroudn the town freely and the aliens dont unburrow when they walk by...

TheOddAngel, P7 is set to enemies for the aliens, if you had a bit of experience you will know that enemy computers respond more aggressively to human players that are enemies. For example, they will unburrow when human controlled enemies walk past and usually not computer controll enemies. And they usually target human controlled enemies first.

Trigger complexity sort of affectsgame. After years of mapping, i've been able to tell how complex a map is in it's triggering.

What i think trigger complexity really means is not how many triggers you got, but how well you use them. Theoretically, if you have more triggers in a map, then the number of "well used" triggers should be more and that adds up to the score.

Th creative, original, complexity, and terrain components of the map reviewing dont affect the total score at all. I really think fun factor and Overall score are really what makes the games what they are. The others are just like details of the map, because some people might be interested in knowing what it's like in those categories.

not to be rude shinra, but i personally hated your map
it looks to me like you stole the item system from many other (U) members (ive seen this same system in MaThRiX's and ETEFT's maps) also, i think alot of the stuff could've been layed out alot nicer, and unit names could've been upgraded a bit (the -=Name=- stuff scard the crap outta me)
at least you can finish a map, alot of people i know only get to 10% and quit

btw - i quit aEp (gg drax )

The item system may be developed by (U), but what is limiting people from using it to enhance their maps?

FYI: I used that item system way long before mathrix(U) made his swat map, which was my LotR kills Harry Potter RPG. And before my rpg, Nightmare also used that item system as well.

It doesn't really matter that much to me anyway, You can hate it or you can love it But i didn't steal anything, if you start blaming people for stealing other peoples stuff then I should just blame every Map maker for stealing the graphics from the True SC maps Map makers find out those things for a reason to keep it to yourself and not let anyone else implment it in there maps would be just greedy, but again I don't care because after careful consideration I have deciede too to quit SC, it seems to me all the hard work us good map makers put into making maps is just not worth it. Sorry to say for all those who acually liked the map that the series will not continue unless one of the people I have given the unprotected map to decieds they want to finish it or improve it or whatever, SC is getting old I have played it for quite a long time now, but Im finished, the time spent on things like maps is just to unappricated. Its been real, its been fun, But it hasn't been real fun. Ill probably get on one last time tonight to say goodbye to the friends i have made over b.net.

I have to agree, SC is old, and the time taken to make SC maps are just not as much appreciated as before. I'll miss you Shinra.

Damn I was about to post when the release date for the sequal was =/. Anyways I haven't played your full version yet because i've been busy with MGS3 but I know it'll be awesome cuz I helped test it =D. GJ. Btw you don't HAVE to play this map. If you start it and don't like it, quit, delete it and go about your merry way. You don't have to drag the mapper down with you. Criticism is good and all but you don't have to be a jerk when you give it.

Ps. Shinra Im me cuz i accidently deleted the subgroup you were in on my screen name and i forgot your name =p.

Maps you make for anyone but yourself are not very good and they are not very satisfying. I've never actually even played your map though.

If anyone wants to continue this map let me know Ill give you the unprotected version and a continuing storyline if you want to use it, just let me know Ill PM you the information

What storyline? I just played it, it was largely inconsistent and rife with spelling errors. What little story there was made absolutely no sense, with large parts contradicting one another. A lot of the terrain and things seemed out of place, strange, and mostly dumb. There was quite a bit of Deus ex Machina going on too.

ADDITION: People tested this map?

My response to the post above this one

Is this

LMFAO

[ Sorry for the spam of smilies, i just think thats freaking funny!!! ]

I seriously almost fell out of my chair. That was just perfect. I mean, perfect.

Ok because of the amout of msg's im getting of people asking me to please finish the AE series I have decided to instead of quitting SC forever im going to take a break from it for a while but I will be back and when I come back I will release v1 of AE: After Earth. After finishing the AE series, i will then make my final decision to quit SC forever or to keep playing and makeing maps

On another note, if you have negative, non constructive comments about my map KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF cause I don't care what you say, if you don't like it don't play it !

It's good to hear that you aren't quitting for good. I'm also taking a bit of a break, but I fully intend to return as I don't like leaving unfinished work on the table. Hope it's the same way for you.

I don't know why people are bashing your map so much. There's room for polish, mind you, but some of those comments are a little strong for 'constructive criticism.' It might have something to do with the review. Personally, I'd give it a solid 8 (9 for a beta) because the ending didn't work (seems the reviewer overlooked that fact). Also, you're as deserving as anyone of the Uber ranking. Quality maps are rare these days.

Also, this could be a result of your production hype. You inflated people's expectations with all the talk prior to the release, and some of them were probably a little disappointed. However, I must say that you didn't choose a good time to come to SEN. Seems like most of the nice people are gone. Heh, I'm glad I released my map while Salacious wasn't here .

Most of the people I talked to say the map lived up to its hype and most everything I said would be in the map is in the map. The only thing i can think of right now it the infesting thing but I decided that it was too hard to get through the map without getting infested and again this was only beta, the new versions may have more, I have already planned on adding even better AI, more Used for specials, I may even (Not making any promises) throw in the Infestation thing, I am redoing all the text to check for spelling errors and changing the text of some things so the next version will be better, For those of you who don't like the storyline well thats just too bad cause its not changing

Shinra since you are going to be continuing this "series" I will go into great detail everything that was wrong with this map.

Story:

Your story was largely inconsistent, and every single line of text has innumberable amounts of typos that deterred people from understanding what was going on. The dates you listed for different events were largely inaccurate, some of them claiming that we were invaded in the year 7 AD, as in 7 years after the death of Jesus. What little story there was, is all introduction. I didn't play much into the game, but there was no story whatsoever outside the intro. As for that, it needs to be polished up a lot, make a lot of sense, as none of it does. You said we were invaded by aliens.. who are actually just mindless "crawlers". Basically I can't even shoot at your story anymore because there isn't any.

Text:

Your text was full of spelling errors. Dozens. A lot of stuff didn't even make sense because of it. You need to proof-read what you are doing. Starting every line with a colored letter, even though it is a continuation of the same sentence, is also dumb. You should learn about paragraphs, and only color the first letter of each paragraph. You kept hitting carriage returns after every sentence too, that looks terrible. Refer to your English teacher for more information on proper writing styles. Another problem is the unit names, for one, most people don't go around NAMING every alien they see. For the most part, good aliens/monster maps don't even name the aliens/monsters at all, they just leave the names blank. You however further destroy naming them at all by putting in fancy symbols around their names and inappropriate colors. You are trying to create a mood here, and the best way to do that is to leave the names blank, or at least make them simple, and colored with something sane. Also, whenever you go into a new area, the name that is listed has the same problem. It's fancy, ugly colors, with strange symbols adorning it that make it look like some sort of teletubby RPG. As for units, you don't need to stick on "Delta-Team" on all of their names. A good style would be to put "Full Name [Weapon]". That actually looks good, plus these people with one name seem dumb. The characters have no real depth.

Units:

This kind of overlaps with text. You need to name them appropriately, will full names, and good stats. The monsters should be blank or well-named. Your stats are really strange. Fights should be short and dangerous, not prolonged and agonizing. It seems stupid if you have to take out 5 minutes of your time to kill one alien who does 1 damage to you. Also, you start out with these funkily colored "Transport Pods" that are RASZAGAL. That unit doesn't even fit, especially since it has a picture of raszagal as it's wireframe. At the very least you could have used Corsairs, with much better coloring. Shuttles however would have been far more accurate to use. As for all these houses you stuck randomly around as scenery, they looks stupid. You used houses to block off paths, then you have one spot where you walk down an alley and you're in a house. And on that point, there is absolutely no way to tell where the exit is. As for the scenery itself, spice it up A LOT more. You can have different values for Health other than 50% and 100%. Also, you can do a lot more than houses too, you can place buildings to represent banks and stores and what not. And don't use houses to block off paths, use some sort of "rubble" unit. And also, don't name rubble, rubble. Just leave it blank. You can also adorn the insides of buildings MUCH better than that. You just left it empty, and people wander around in them for no reason. Oh right, if you're going to have things that are important, like bombs or sewer hatches, make them INVINCIBLE...

Delta Team:

This thing you call "Squad Based AI" is really pretty sad. This isn't that cool at all, it's just one trigger making your units follow you, and then a few more making them wander around like morons. Then when you position them in "defensive" positions, they are in really stupid spots. For that matter, there should be far more options in controlling them, as your options are .. non-existent. The use of "Passive" is completely useless, thus making "Aggressive" useless too. Every once in a while, sure you have them wander around in "Freelance" mode which, yet again, is another thing you overcolored and you made it look really bad. The people wandering around doing nothing is not cool, it doesn't make any sense either. As for the people just following you, there are a lot better ways of doing that. There is a grid system, which you can download examples of right here at SEN, which will allow you to make the squad follow you in a any pattern you like. Maybe a + sign or an X sign. Probably an X, since your map is isometric. I'll just lead into the next part now.

Options:

Your options are strange and confusing. The abilities the people can use have no exaplanation, and really stupid names. Some of them don't actually do anything. Also, you put square terrain, which looks terrible, and you made the area huge. Also these "bombs", I'm not sure what they are for or how you can even use them. Your method of using medkits is slow and outdated as well. Further more, you use square terrain around the options area to block it off. This is so tacky looking. Your map should have intelligent design to it, not like some garbage thrown together at the last second. Then you make things worse by sticking map revealers over the options area that REVEAL part of the terrain OF the map. This is even more tacky, and yet another thing that completely ruins the mood of the entire game. Basically your options are could be a lot better. You could use other sytems to cast things, such as something using hotkeys. You could make it not look so terrible.

Deus Ex Machina:

You want to avoid this at all costs. Deus ex Machina, or "God from the Machine" is when the author of the map throws in things at the perfect time. Like that explosive barrel in the sewer part. Why is it there? There is absolutely NOTHING in the sewers at all, and then there's this conveniantly placed explosive barrel, that for some reason has an explosion 100% localized to get the job done of blowing away the rubble without damaging the team at all. This looks so terrible. A linear map that is entirely moved along by conveniantly placed objects by "God" is just plain dumb. Everything you have in this map is just, conveniant. A lot of stuff makes no sense at all. First you go into a random house and there is a switch there for some reason. Then there is a sewer thing for some reason. And, it's not like you made it look like there were other available paths. No, you just made it so there was just one path, with wierd things in strange places that were largely inconsistent, making no sense whatsoever in the grand scheme of things.